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Option to remove CFTs


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56 minutes ago, henshao said:

you seem really impressed by this. We do see a period of sustained 25 degrees AoA which isn't bad I guess. But look at the sustained AoA from the F-15 spin tests

 

that plane (F-15A) is at close to 40 degrees angle of attack IMO when "there's right rudder, there's left stick" is input (and it still takes a while to spin)

if you read here they often had to put massive fuel asymmetry into this F-15A just to get it to spin at all, outside of speed-brake development
https://www.docdroid.com/zmrZTQT/f-15-spin-test-program-notes-pdf

First of all, let's see this Japanese F-15s at dynamic high AoA maneuvering:

 

Back to the "nice airshow BTW" footages, the sustained low speed - high AoA flyby by the F-15E was at 32 degrees, not 25.

Based on this article about the KEEP EAGLE program, the F-15E has exactly same AoA limitiations, as the F-15A-D fleet has, but with a better handling characteristic. More capable spin preventation and departure control, than the normal Eagle had formerly. 

https://books.google.hu/books?id=F9hnha2ESfMC&pg=RA5-PA16&lpg=RA5-PA16&dq=f-15e+strike+eagle+high+angle+of+attack&source=bl&ots=yHVVUw__wK&sig=ACfU3U0eMw1k5ElDYoIX2oDd84CVK9LV7g&hl=hu&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_qpP3gdH5AhU3YPEDHTCjDos4PBDoAXoECAMQAw#v=onepage&q=f-15e strike eagle high angle of attack&f=false

Page 183:

" KEEP EAGLE found that the F- 15E now exhibits " excel lent flying qualities above 30 AOA ...better than the F-15A/ B / C/D at high AOA.” In fact, during KEEP EAGLE testing, not a single unintentional depar ture / spin was encountered at high AOA . The bottom line for Strike Eagle drivers is that the F-15E is more departure / spin resistant than the F - 15A- D at high AOA. Also, if departure / spin occurs, the Strike Eagle will exhibit good spin recovery characteristics in both air- to - air and air-to-ground configurations — even when asymmetrically configured with asymmetries in excess of 8,000 foot-pounds. The F- 15E still shares some low angle of attack departure characteristics with the F-15A-D family."

"Unlike the F - 15A - D , the F - 15E does NOT experience ... a region of reduced directional stability around 37-44 CPU "

"Hopefully, you've gained some insight into the handling characteristics unique to the F-15E. While the Strike Eagle exhibits some better handling qualities at high AOA than the F- 15A-D, it still shares some of the low AOA departure characteristics with the rest of the Eagle family."

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48 minutes ago, Allesmor Obranna said:

Back to the "nice airshow BTW" footages, the sustained low speed - high AoA flyby by the F-15E was at 32 degrees, not 25.

32 units, 25 degrees 🙂

 

as I mentioned, the F-15E has revised AFCS scheduling particularly for high angle of attack flight, it might be superior to an earlier Eagle in the event neither were carrying CFTs. Which, my original comment was to a poster who wanted to use the F-15E primarily for air to air, and my comment was that with its heavy draggy CFTs and targeting pods it has lost a lot of the high alpha capability of the F-15C

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1 hour ago, henshao said:

32 units, 25 degrees 🙂

 

as I mentioned, the F-15E has revised AFCS scheduling particularly for high angle of attack flight, it might be superior to an earlier Eagle in the event neither were carrying CFTs. Which, my original comment was to a poster who wanted to use the F-15E primarily for air to air, and my comment was that with its heavy draggy CFTs and targeting pods it has lost a lot of the high alpha capability of the F-15C

Ok, agreed. 

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On 9/21/2021 at 12:49 AM, Tank50us said:

 

And much of that comes from all the extra equipment needed to support the dude in the back seat, and all the kit needed to deploy the AtG weapons, and that's before you add in the CFTs

 

 

Because to add that feature, you'd basically have to go through making an entirely new flight model that accounts for the fact that those tanks, and their weapon stations, aren't present. And given how long it's taking them to model the thing as it currently is, I really don't want to wait another 2+ years for them to do all that work for a feature that most of us won't use. Seriously, if you're going to fly an F-15E without the CFTs for an air to air fight.... why not just load up the F-15C? (and 'because it's Low Fidelity' is not an acceptable answer)

That is an acceptable answer.

“they are removable” - let the mission builders decide.  

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On 8/18/2022 at 3:45 PM, henshao said:

it might be superior to an earlier Eagle in the event neither were carrying CFTs.

Maybe compared to a family model.  It definitely will not be superior to a light grey.

On 8/18/2022 at 3:45 PM, henshao said:

Which, my original comment was to a poster who wanted to use the F-15E primarily for air to air, and my comment was that with its heavy draggy CFTs and targeting pods it has lost a lot of the high alpha capability of the F-15C

The loss comes from the nose weight and the same is experienced by the family models.


Edited by GGTharos
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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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On 8/18/2022 at 3:45 PM, henshao said:

32 units, 25 degrees 🙂

 

as I mentioned, the F-15E has revised AFCS scheduling particularly for high angle of attack flight, it might be superior to an earlier Eagle in the event neither were carrying CFTs. Which, my original comment was to a poster who wanted to use the F-15E primarily for air to air, and my comment was that with its heavy draggy CFTs and targeting pods it has lost a lot of the high alpha capability of the F-15C

Love to know where you are hearing all this. 
 

32 units is not 25* BTW. 


Edited by Rainmaker
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god help me I can't resist responding to this pedantic nitpicking

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

32 units is not 25* BTW.

I know 32 cockpit units does not generally correspond to 25 degrees AoA but why don't you cut out the middle man and go tell the F-15 that

d3201fee45189cfb5e713334f5dfe563.png


Edited by henshao
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On 8/20/2022 at 2:55 AM, henshao said:

god help me I can't resist responding to this pedantic nitpicking

I know 32 cockpit units does not generally correspond to 25 degrees AoA but why don't you cut out the middle man and go tell the F-15 that

d3201fee45189cfb5e713334f5dfe563.png

 

Can anybody tell me what that scale on the far right of the HUD is ? I saw it in the latest Razbam F15E navigation video but i couldn't figure out what it is supposed to show. It seems to go from 0 to 15?

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5 hours ago, St4RgAz3R said:

Can anybody tell me what that scale on the far right of the HUD is ? I saw it in the latest Razbam F15E navigation video but i couldn't figure out what it is supposed to show. It seems to go from 0 to 15?

Isn't that the effective missile range scale?

I'm not updating this anymore. It's safe to assume I have all the stuff, and the stuff for the stuff too. 🙂

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1 hour ago, St4RgAz3R said:

Makes sense but it goes only to 1500 feet? IIRC the f16 radar altimeter goes up to tens of thousand feet maybe more

Think the F-16 goes up to 30,000ft in the latest version, it does vary between blocks and upgrades.

Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh

Clan Cameron

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44 minutes ago, henshao said:

the mudhen is not my first love but I believe she carries AN/APN-232 Combined Altitude Radar Altimeter (CARA), which goes from 0-50000ft

I did read that the 50,000ft CARA was not a low observable item in that the radar could be intercepted by others 

Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh

Clan Cameron

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  • 3 weeks later...
26 minutes ago, MoGas said:

 

Again and again and again ...

Have you read this entire thread? I do not think so...

Sometimes when I repair my cars, I disconnect the fuel hose from the tank and put it in a bottle with gasoline. Does it mean that you meet  cars such fuel-powered on the streets?

How many times can it be the same, the F-15E WILL NOT FLY WITHOUT CFT except for technical reviews, tests, and sometimes airshows. It is basically an integral part of this machine, but it can be disassembled for maintenance, technical reviews etc.
Anyway, why am I typing about it again? In a few days or weeks again someone will come back with a photo or a movie of the F-15E without CFT...

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16 minutes ago, Nahen said:

...the F-15E WILL NOT FLY WITHOUT CFT...

I don't think this means what you think it means.

The F-15E flies quite well without the CFT's. They are not required to be installed for any reason other than the operational advantages they provide. I.e. additional weapons load and fuel.

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Makes me wonder if the Air Force isn't doing a little shuffling of duties. Originally, the F-15EX was going to replace the F-15C, but you only ever see the EX as two-seaters with strike CFTs. Perhaps the EX is going to replace the E, and the current Es are going to replace the Cs as they age out. As I once mentioned, take those bomb racks off the Mudhen and even the Typhoon starts to look mortal.

 

So much for never ever ever never in 100 million years flown even on a training sortie without CFTs, though.

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21 minutes ago, Cab said:

I don't think this means what you think it means.

The F-15E flies quite well without the CFT's. They are not required to be installed for any reason other than the operational advantages they provide. I.e. additional weapons load and fuel.

You do not understand what I wrote - the F-15E NEVER FLYS WITHOUT CFT neither in training, combat, it is never used without CFT.

It flies, it has flown and will fly well without and with CFT. But it is never USED without CFT.

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1 hour ago, Nahen said:

You do not understand what I wrote - the F-15E NEVER FLYS WITHOUT CFT neither in training, combat, it is never used without CFT.

It flies, it has flown and will fly well without and with CFT. But it is never USED without CFT.

Yes, this is correct for the most part, but it is significantly different than what you originally wrote.

There is nothing wrong with clarifying your comments, but it is a cop out to say I didn't understand you.

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2 minutes ago, Cab said:

Yes, this is correct for the most part, but it is significantly different than what you originally wrote.

There is nothing wrong with clarifying your comments, but it is a cop out to say I didn't understand you.

PEACE 😄

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1 hour ago, henshao said:

Makes me wonder if the Air Force isn't doing a little shuffling of duties. Originally, the F-15EX was going to replace the F-15C, but you only ever see the EX as two-seaters with strike CFTs. Perhaps the EX is going to replace the E, and the current Es are going to replace the Cs as they age out. As I once mentioned, take those bomb racks off the Mudhen and even the Typhoon starts to look mortal.

 

So much for never ever ever never in 100 million years flown even on a training sortie without CFTs, though.

The EX is not exactly filling the roll that the C did. Although it's worth noting that Boeing did propose a CX, but because this would be more expensive, it apparently was not pursued. Anyway when the C was cutting edge it was the best fighter the US had available. The EX is inferior to the F-22 and F-35, so leaving it saddled with the weight of an extra seat and always bolted on CFT's isn't a problem. It's not meant tackle the very highest threats. If you're in a situation where you would need a CX over an EX, might as well send in the even better 5th gens.

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Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

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