Jump to content

Option to remove CFTs


carss

Recommended Posts

It's very interesting they have captive missiles on them. I've never seen a SE in that config, the few images/videos we have of them without the tanks also have them clean with no wing pylons, pods or anything ect. 

That suggests that they are now in fact operating them without the CFTs as all of that would have to come off to put them back on. Which is a lot of work, And this is a Frontline deployed unit, so Maybe this is a new thing they are trying. I know there is a shift in the SE community now towards more AA because the C/D is on the endangered species list and the understanding is that the E/EX will have to pick up the slack going forward until NGAD takes over So maybe this is USAFs way of stretching their resources now. Idk but it's a cool video. 

Don't know if it's reasonable to ask the devs to develop two FMs for the product based on a single video though. Lol that would be a ton of work for very little value. I'd rather have ED just make us a FF F-15C at that point. 

  • Like 2

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

 

That suggests that they are now in fact operating them without the CFTs as all of that would have to come off to put them back on. Which is a lot of work, And this is a Frontline deployed unit, so Maybe this is a new thing they are trying.

They do not operate - they test / practice not in a "linear" unit but in their home unit in England in Lakenheath, where 48 TFW is stationed on a daily basis since 1960. Currently, ALL F-15Es that are moved into OPERATIONAL regions, such as Poland, Baltic countries, etc. FLY WITH MOUNTED CFT, none of them arrived WITHOUT CFT and none of them dont have even 5 seconds without CFT. They usually fly armed with only AiM-120 and AiM-9, but ALL THE TIME WITH CFT.

Is so hard to understand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nahen said:

Is so hard to understand? 

Why do you care so much? 🤔 😉 

If you can't convince people to agree or believe you after these 10 pages, you never will. 😊

I don't care one way or another, but Razbam has said they can't be removed.

Give me and A or C. That's what I really want. 😊 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Nahen said:

They do not operate - they test / practice not in a "linear" unit but in their home unit in England in Lakenheath, where 48 TFW is stationed on a daily basis since 1960. Currently, ALL F-15Es that are moved into OPERATIONAL regions, such as Poland, Baltic countries, etc. FLY WITH MOUNTED CFT, none of them arrived WITHOUT CFT and none of them dont have even 5 seconds without CFT. They usually fly armed with only AiM-120 and AiM-9, but ALL THE TIME WITH CFT.

Is so hard to understand?

Yeah I'm well aware however the video seems to contradict that. Why would they install the wing stations and captive missiles only to train, and then what? They send the jet back to the depot and have them take all that off and put the CFTs back on? and where are the pods, why have do the recess stations have the hardware to accept missiles installed. They went through a bit of intentional work to get the jet in configuration. And there's two of them like that together. 

It actually is a little difficult to understand. If that was just a test or check flight they would not load up captive missiles or do any of that. If this was a ferry flight where are the pods and drop tanks. The only other instances I've seen them without CFTs is in test settings at the depot I've never ever seen one in a training setting without out CFTs. Certainly not deployed overseas either. 

But I guess the point is, if they wanted to operate the jet like, they certainly could. I was always under the impression they don't, but I also have eyes. 

Anywho yeah I'd love to see raz or ED make an F-15C as a follow up to the SE which would largely make this thread irrelevant. 

 

  • Like 5

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

...which would largely make this thread irrelevant.

😂🤣

This thread has been completely irrelevant for a long time now.

Even if the F-15E were in active service with the CFT's removed (hypothetically), it is completely irrelevant to DCS because the F-15E's CFT's will not be removable in DCS. 


Edited by felixx75
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Yeah I'm well aware however the video seems to contradict that. Why would they install the wing stations and captive missiles only to train, and then what? They send the jet back to the depot and have them take all that off and put the CFTs back on? and where are the pods, why have do the recess stations have the hardware to accept missiles installed. They went through a bit of intentional work to get the jet in configuration. And there's two of them like that together. 

It actually is a little difficult to understand. If that was just a test or check flight they would not load up captive missiles or do any of that. If this was a ferry flight where are the pods and drop tanks. The only other instances I've seen them without CFTs is in test settings at the depot I've never ever seen one in a training setting without out CFTs. Certainly not deployed overseas either. 

 

 

Do you have eyes... Well, show me, let's say 100 films from the F-15E with CFTs removed, a set of A-A missiles on, and each of these planes is to be from a different squadron. If on this 100 films from the F-15E, there will be 50 films with the F-15E with CFT removed (I remind you from other squadrons than the 492nd and 494th from Lakenheath) I admit that the USAF uses the F-15E as fighters in the A-A configuration without CFT.
As of today, no one F-15E IS USED in COMBAT, OPERATIONAL OR IN ANY OTHER WAY without CFT. The exceptions are TESTS, REPAIRS, SERVICE INSPECTIONS, TRAININGS (damn rarely) and FUN at air shows and on open unit days.
So far, apart from this ONE movie from Lakenheath and the cases of the "exceptions" mentioned, there is no other. And again, all F-15Es that are currently service on Eastern Europe, e.g. in Poland they fly ALL THE TIME WITH CFT.


Edited by Nahen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nahen you don't understand 🙂 . I am not interested in the fact that the F-15s fly with CFTs all the time. Why should they disassemble CFT, disassembly of CFT is probably a long operation. Show me the F-18 without pylons in the combat video. But in DCS pylon can be disassembled in F-18 and FM is changing as well. Its not a question that 99.9% of the F-15 E are flying with CFT or not. The point is that there is such a possibility in reality and in DCS, i.e. in a flight simulator, this option should also be available. What if I will want to put on a great show for my friends? With CFT I will be able to show them less 🙂  And what about F-16? They have CFT too but sometimes i saw F-16 with some board number with CFT and sometimes without them.


Edited by Versor
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It.  Will.  Not.  Happen.  Razbam has said so.  Why should THEY spend man-years of time making a second flight model (this is not as trivial as a pylon removal) just so you can do an airshow?  You want to do an airshow, use the F-15C.  As to the F-16, there is a reason ED has been adamant on being a USAF F-16, so that they don't have to worry about the fact that HAF F-16 have CFTs and dorsal spines.  Unless you personally want to give Razbam a check for US$100,000 stop insisting that they make the CFT removable.  In the real world that is a multi-hours long maintenance endeavor.  This more like removing an engine than removing a pylon.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already wrote earlier that such an option should be possible in DCS of course if it is possible in reality. But I know that the disassembly of the CFT would force the addition of a new Fm. Therefore, for me it may be an option added later. I have been waiting for this module 10 years, I am 10 years older, not younger. Let him come out with or without that option - doesn't matter.


Edited by Versor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nahen said:

Do you have eyes... Well, show me, let's say 100 films from the F-15E with CFTs removed, a set of A-A missiles on, and each of these planes is to be from a different squadron. If on this 100 films from the F-15E, there will be 50 films with the F-15E with CFT removed (I remind you from other squadrons than the 492nd and 494th from Lakenheath) I admit that the USAF uses the F-15E as fighters in the A-A configuration without CFT.
As of today, no one F-15E IS USED in COMBAT, OPERATIONAL OR IN ANY OTHER WAY without CFT. The exceptions are TESTS, REPAIRS, SERVICE INSPECTIONS, TRAININGS (damn rarely) and FUN at air shows and on open unit days.
So far, apart from this ONE movie from Lakenheath and the cases of the "exceptions" mentioned, there is no other. And again, all F-15Es that are currently service on Eastern Europe, e.g. in Poland they fly ALL THE TIME WITH CFT.

 

Go ahead and actually read my post before replying. The whole thing please. Because I literally stated this is the first time I've ever seen them in that config. My previous post which you also quoted stated that I don't think raz should give us the option to take them off anyway which is the subject of this thread.

Anyways That was a training mission for sure, not a test flight, not static engine run up or  check flight. And I've never ever seen them take the CFTs off for training hops. Why would they do that? The video is also from 2022 so maybe things have changed. Which was the subject of my first post you quoted. They certainly wouldn't be training in a config that they aren't going to use. That would be negative training and not representative of rw scenarios. They train like they fight. 


Edited by Wizard_03
  • Like 2

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Yeah I'm well aware however the video seems to contradict that. Why would they install the wing stations and captive missiles only to train, and then what? They send the jet back to the depot and have them take all that off and put the CFTs back on? and where are the pods, why have do the recess stations have the hardware to accept missiles installed. They went through a bit of intentional work to get the jet in configuration. And there's two of them like that together. 

It actually is a little difficult to understand. If that was just a test or check flight they would not load up captive missiles or do any of that. If this was a ferry flight where are the pods and drop tanks. The only other instances I've seen them without CFTs is in test settings at the depot I've never ever seen one in a training setting without out CFTs. Certainly not deployed overseas either. 

But I guess the point is, if they wanted to operate the jet like, they certainly could. I was always under the impression they don't, but I also have eyes. 

Anywho yeah I'd love to see raz or ED make an F-15C as a follow up to the SE which would largely make this thread irrelevant. 

 


My comment is irrelevant to whatever this thread has turned into, but CFT removal and installs are not a big deal. A few hours, for both. No depot level anything required. It takes longer to defuel one than it does to change it. 
 

Also, pods cannot be flown without CFTs, not allowed. That’s why you wont see them. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:


My comment is irrelevant to whatever this thread has turned into, but CFT removal and installs are not a big deal. A few hours, for both. No depot level anything required. It takes longer to defuel one than it does to change it. 
 

Also, pods cannot be flown without CFTs, not allowed. That’s why you wont see them. 

Once again - Lakenheath is the base where 48TFW is stationed. This is their home, they have 150% of technical, logistic and whatever facilities you want there. A remove from two or four F-15E his CFT to exercise / play in this conditions there is no problem. Let me tell you that I saw F-15C planes from 483rd with attached CFTs there. And now what will start that the F-15C are / have been used with CFT? I do not think so.
The movie is from 2022 ... today we still have  2022 and I can assure you that every F-15E that TODAY is on NATO's eastern flank has a CFT and even for a second after leaving their home bases, did not remove them. If someone makes a movie in which the sailors on board the USS G. Washington will run in their shorts, it means that from now on it is a standard uniform for the deck crew of this class of aircraft carrier ?? The F-15E is not strictly a fighter plane. IT'S a strike machine. The fact that its crews are practicing air combat, and that it has retained 100% air combat capability does not mean that the USAF will suddenly remove CFTs from them and start using them as F-15Cs. That's what the F-22, F-16, F-35 are for. Nobody will send a two-seater machine into air combat when the other crew member is completely unnecessary. Not only that, probably even here on the forum the topic of differences was discussed - lower efficiency in air combat of the F-15E compared to the F-15C and F16. So it doesn't make sense any more.
As of today, on the official website of the 48thTFW air base, there is not a word about training the E version without CFT. So it wasn't really a specific training episode. When larger trainings / trainings are organized in this database, information about it is always provided. So far I have not seen one there. Maybe these few machines were just going through periodic reviews, and by the way they came up with the idea to fly like their friends from the 493rd who were sent back to the USA. This is what it looks like today. None of the squadrons equipped with the F-15E train regularly as scheduled combat on the Strike Eagle without CFT. Neither in the USA nor in Europe.

As you write - you see them for the first time in such a configuration - and you immediately assume that maybe something has changed, that they can be used now without CFT - so I explain - NOTHING HAS CHANGED. It is once again a single episode, detached from routine tasks, training plans, etc. Perhaps due to the withdrawal of the F-15C from Lakenheath, such "training / games" will take place more often, but only through nostalgia for the old Eagle.

Before the F-15E is converted into a typical USAF air superiority fighter, they will reach the Lakenheath F-15EX sooner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nahen said:

Once again - Lakenheath is the base where 48TFW is stationed. This is their home, they have 150% of technical, logistic and whatever facilities you want there. A remove from two or four F-15E his CFT to exercise / play in this conditions there is no problem. Let me tell you that I saw F-15C planes from 483rd with attached CFTs there. And now what will start that the F-15C are / have been used with CFT? I do not think so.
The movie is from 2022 ... today we still have  2022 and I can assure you that every F-15E that TODAY is on NATO's eastern flank has a CFT and even for a second after leaving their home bases, did not remove them. If someone makes a movie in which the sailors on board the USS G. Washington will run in their shorts, it means that from now on it is a standard uniform for the deck crew of this class of aircraft carrier ?? The F-15E is not strictly a fighter plane. IT'S a strike machine. The fact that its crews are practicing air combat, and that it has retained 100% air combat capability does not mean that the USAF will suddenly remove CFTs from them and start using them as F-15Cs. That's what the F-22, F-16, F-35 are for. Nobody will send a two-seater machine into air combat when the other crew member is completely unnecessary. Not only that, probably even here on the forum the topic of differences was discussed - lower efficiency in air combat of the F-15E compared to the F-15C and F16. So it doesn't make sense any more.
As of today, on the official website of the 48thTFW air base, there is not a word about training the E version without CFT. So it wasn't really a specific training episode. When larger trainings / trainings are organized in this database, information about it is always provided. So far I have not seen one there. Maybe these few machines were just going through periodic reviews, and by the way they came up with the idea to fly like their friends from the 493rd who were sent back to the USA. This is what it looks like today. None of the squadrons equipped with the F-15E train regularly as scheduled combat on the Strike Eagle without CFT. Neither in the USA nor in Europe.

As you write - you see them for the first time in such a configuration - and you immediately assume that maybe something has changed, that they can be used now without CFT - so I explain - NOTHING HAS CHANGED. It is once again a single episode, detached from routine tasks, training plans, etc. Perhaps due to the withdrawal of the F-15C from Lakenheath, such "training / games" will take place more often, but only through nostalgia for the old Eagle.

Before the F-15E is converted into a typical USAF air superiority fighter, they will reach the Lakenheath F-15EX sooner.

150% of tech, logistical etc facilities? Me thinks you over estimate their capabilities, that means that the other bases must have a negative percentage of technical, logistics etc.  

Why would a F-15E crew train with an aircraft that is not in the configuration that they will be using it to fight? Has something changed in the wider EU in the year 2022 with no more F-15C being made maybe the F-15E sans CFT is being pressed into service to fulfil a role that has just came up within the past few months. 

Why is the second crew member redundant, will he not be using what sensors are on the aircraft plus his Mk 1 eyeball to help in situation awareness.

Training in an aircraft that does not match what you will be fighting in will lead you to make errors in over and underestimating responses of the aircraft.

Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh

Clan Cameron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Alicatt said:

150% of tech, logistical etc facilities? Me thinks you over estimate their capabilities, that means that the other bases must have a negative percentage of technical, logistics etc.  

Why would a F-15E crew train with an aircraft that is not in the configuration that they will be using it to fight? Has something changed in the wider EU in the year 2022 with no more F-15C being made maybe the F-15E sans CFT is being pressed into service to fulfil a role that has just came up within the past few months. 

Why is the second crew member redundant, will he not be using what sensors are on the aircraft plus his Mk 1 eyeball to help in situation awareness.

Training in an aircraft that does not match what you will be fighting in will lead you to make errors in over and underestimating responses of the aircraft.

Don't you appreciate the sarcasm with these percentages? Which does not change the fact that in Lakenheath they have everything you need to replace the engines, remove the CFT and make a complete service of the F-15. For many years, none of the F-15s from this base have returned for e.g. for engine replacement to the USA, they were replaced on the spot and sent for repair / inspection to the USA.

It is not pressed intoservice for use as an F-15C. I don't know how to write clearer - F-15Es are not used without CFT. Nothing has changed. F-15C returned to the US, and swap it in Poland F-22 arrived at the same airport where the F-15E are stationed. F-15E which in the danger zone / zone demonstration of strength - all have CFT - the movie you so defend is a movie from a safe base far from the danger zone, shot on a regular training day. Someone flies without CFT. And I assure you that the same planes without CFT on the film, as they will be sent to Poland / Lithuania / Czech Republic will come with CFT.

What sensors? Tell me what sensors can WSO use in the F-15E for air combat?? Only specifically. 
As far as I know, all avionics mode in air combat mode and A-A armament can only be used by the pilot.

And here you are right, so if the plane is designed to attack ground targets, you shouldn't practice advanced air combat with it. The more so because it is heavier, has greater inertia and, in summary, it is weaker in air combat.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And finally - from the beginning of this topic, when someone raised the problem of posibility removing off in the Razbama CFT module - supporters of this "solution" are supported either by films / photos from air shows, or from test flights, or flights during service inspections. Now they got one more - I'll repeat - one - movie from the base that has been considered the second home of the Eagles for decades.

And on the basis of these - how routine - repeatable - even exemplary combat of the use of the F-15E without CFT, they draw some conclusions, including the fact that from today the F-15E fly without CFT in combat, routine missions, and this is certainly a change in the doctrine of their use ...

I do not look at this topic again 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Nahen said:

The movie is from 2022 ... today we still have  2022 and I can assure you that every F-15E that TODAY is on NATO's eastern flank has a CFT and even for a second after leaving their home bases, did not remove them. If someone makes a movie in which the sailors on board the USS G. Washington will run in their shorts, it means that from now on it is a standard uniform for the deck crew of this class of aircraft carrier ??

:doh:
Literally NO ONE has said that it is standard for Strike Eagles to fly without CFTs. No one!

What people say is that operating without CFTs is an option that can be used, but is EXTREMELY rare to actually be used (so far at least) and is mostly restricted to depot checks with the only known exception being that video where they actually flew armed without CFTs.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think the only reason why removable CFTs in DCS would make sense, would be for Cinematic people, to Emulate an F-15B or F-15D. But I doubt a lot of people would care in that regard.
 


Edited by Wyvern
EDIT - Specified what i mean
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was supposed to not write but what the hell :D
Today, F-15Es were flying in Lakenheath. Including two planes - exactly one of those from the film thrown here earlier and another without CFT - both. But all of the rest F-15E's who standing at the airfield and who flying there with CFT. But that's not the most interesting thing ... the F-15C ... were sent back to the USA a few months ago ... and what do I see today at the Lakenheath taxiways and ramps?? F-15C from 493rd GrimReapers 😄 So what's the point of flying without CFT in the A-A Strike Eagle configuration with the F-15C when on side standing next to it? 😄
The F-15C has not yet been withdrawn from use in the US air force ... and as you can see it will no happen soon in the current geopolitical situation.
So introducing to the DCS module something that practically does not apply would be pointless. The more that we will get from the RAZBAM F-15E in a version from a dozen or so years ago - and then the topic of removing the CFT was completely crap ...

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

i think the only reason why removable CFTs in DCS would make sense, would be for Cinematic people, to Emulate an F-15B or F-15D. But I doubt a lot of people would care in that regard.
 

 

Maybe someone will make a full F-15C / D module someday ... but somehow I sincerely doubt it ... 😞


Edited by Nahen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those hell bent on restricting the jet to it's historic usage by the USAF Are you also this upset raz has confirmed they are implementing Mavericks for the SE? Because that's another case of something the jet CAN do but doesn't. 

The point being the jet has ability to use them and if the USAF wanted it too they certainly could but operationally they don't. They don't even train for it anymore.

Very similar situation to the CFTs if they wanted to remove them for whatever reason and fly the jet around like an F-15D they absolutely could. There's no limitation, it's not prohibited, in fact on the contrary the -1 even has the charts for that configuration. The USAF just doesn't because they don't want to, with the exception of that video. 

 

I understand that removing the CFTs for raz will result in an unjustifiable amount of work and won't really provide a whole lot of gameplay benefit to boot. So their decision is reasonable. But I don't really understand the individuals who want to force the product into a specific operational use. It's like saying there's a right way and wrong way to pretend. Doesn't seem reasonable to me. 

  • Like 3

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

..............

The problem is that RAZBAM has been working on this module so much time that wasting energy on doing something that does not make sense is stupid. It is quite different to make a "strange" set of weapons, even purely experimental - the Mavericks are already ready in other modules, so adapting them for fun to the F-15E is a small piece of cake compared to making a removable CFT taking into account changes in aerodynamic, weight characteristics, etc. "Demands" to do something that will consume the next X hours of work just because that's what you can ... well ... if someone wants to fly an F-15E at the DCS air show, take the F-15C. After the case. During the shooting of acrobatics, I do not see the need to use the A-G radar, night vision goggles, A-G guided weapons ... So I ask - WHY take CFT off ?? To wait for another six months or longer for a module with something it is not necessary for anything rational?
Well, unless we make DCS a flying simulator of anything, then I ask for X-Wing and Star Destroyer, necessarily with removable CFT: P

 

90% of people wanting a removable CFT on the F-15E from RAZBAM just want get the F-15C. Besides, it is not just me who wrote about it many times. It's just that the F-15E without CFT will never be the F-15C.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/13/2022 at 5:09 PM, Spurts said:

It.  Will.  Not.  Happen.  Razbam has said so.  Why should THEY spend man-years of time making a second flight model (this is not as trivial as a pylon removal) just so you can do an airshow?  

Even if they wanted to, where is the performance data from which to build it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Versor said:

Only FYI.

http://www.ausairpower.net/Profile-F-15A-D.html

 

"A FAST pack (now CFT) is fitted onto an F-15E, an operation which this photo shows can easily be handled by just one man. FAST packs allow an additional maximum of 10,000 lb of fuel without the usual drag penalties suffered with traditional large volume underwing tanks."

That's wrong though.  The CFTs on the E, with all the pylons, have more drag than two wing tanks.  It was true on the F-15C CFTs which only had AAM launchers and not 12 pylons.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...