Mosquito with Night-Fighting Equipment

[SRF_Robert]

Edited September 22, 2021 by SRF_Robert

[SRF_Robert]

Pitching for the first night-fighter for DCS. 

 

http://www.airvectors.net/avmoss_1.html information for reference. 

 

Maybe paid for multiple variants or a Mosquito on the ground can fit night-fighting equipment inside the cockpit. 

 

Two different radar stations, long-wave and short-band radar, and exhaust suppressors. Other than this, it is a typical Merlin 25 Mosquito.  

 

This will also give more possibilities for missions and multiplayer/multi-crew, as well as a new element of DCS: WWII not imagined. 

 

Thanks a lot guys, amazing work on this module, really set yourselves high, 

 

-Rob

Edited August 31, 2023 by SRF_Robert

[Magic Zach]

Would make for a pretty neat new role for a warbird in DCS for sure

[Enduro14]

Ya pretty cool, but we still don't have the F8 version of the 190......

[MJDixon]

Yes please!

Given how adaptable the Mossie was it would be great to expand its role to cover some more unique scenarios for DCS, like introducing night fighters and level bombers in the case of the B. IX

Edited September 22, 2021 by MJDixon

[Nealius]

11 hours ago, Enduro14 said:

Ya pretty cool, but we still don't have the F8 version of the 190......

 

I thought we were going to get the F8 at some point, like we did the clipped-wing Spit. Either I was mistaken or that was taken off the "subject to change" development plans. 

[Tom_]

+1

[Richard Dastardly]

There was a thread elsewhere about NFs in general - my grandfather was intimately involved with centimetric radar development ( patent level ) so I've always had an interest, but I honestly don't know how attractive any NF would be to use - 99% of the time you're going to end up staring at either blackness or the instruments wondering where you are.  In the Mossie NF case a lot of hours were spent patrolling the RAF bomber stream to try & catch LW NFs, which I guess has interest of it's own but walk through a full mission of that & see if the whole thing is something you want to do a lot, and also something possible ( we're talking hundreds of heavy bombers  here even if you do part of it to patrol! ). As I said elsewhere I'd buy it because of my connection, but not really sure how much I'd fly it.

[percivaldanvers]

Just finished reading "Duel Under the Stars" by Wilhelm Johnen and his descriptions of the havoc wrought by nightfighting mosquitos really makes me want one in DCS. 

[Komet_82]

I would be defenitely in for nightfighting

[peachmonkey]

I'd scale the expectations down a bit.

We still haven't gotten the delayed fusing for this bird so we could attempt to recreate the very missions this plane got its fame for. The lack of wwii release consistency or an indication of even a slightest hint to a 'roadmap' that ED operates by all of the "wants" raised by the community members turn wwii2 forum section in to a simple gossip soup.   Do I want all of these ideas come to fruition? Absolutely. Will they actually happen? 100% nope. 

[Mogster]

RV Jones book “the very secret war” has some detail about WW2 radio navigation, radar and countermeasures. 
 

For WW2 night fighting you really need vectors by ground stations. Night fighters would be vectored onto a target then use their own radar in the general area it seems.
 

One mystery is why the Luftwaffe failed to attack landing RAF and USAAF heavy bombers more often when the occasional dawn/dusk attacks of this type were quite successful. One suggestion is that the Germany high command preferred the propaganda value of allied aircraft being brought down over German held territory rather than on English soil. 

[Robi-wan]

I'm sure you know all of the following, but some folks might not.

On 5/21/2022 at 3:11 AM, Mogster said:

For WW2 night fighting you really need vectors by ground stations. Night fighters would be vectored onto a target then use their own radar in the general area it seems.

Only if you're thinking defensive gameplay.

However WRT to the Luftwaffe, close GCI control shrunk considerably after the introduction of the Bomber Stream on the night of 30/31 May 1942. Control switched from NJ staying within a short distance of their home field with GCI to ranging all over Europe under the direction of the Fighter Division controllers. Generally speaking, running commentary of the the Bomber Stream became the SOP as did directing groups of NJ to beacons then target cities. NJ had Naxos to home in on the H2S ground mapping radar of RAF bombers, and Flensburg to home in on the tail warning Monica.

From early 1942 the RAF had three pretty active Intruder squadrons (23 Sqn, 418 Sqn, & 605 Sqn) using Havocs & Bostons that routinely patrolled Luftwaffe airfields (well beyond RAF radar coverage) at night. They used Mk 1 eyeballs.  Around March 1943 they started converting to Mosquitos without radar.

In 1943 once Mk VIII AI became widely available the RAF released NF Mk II Mosquitos (with their Mk IV AI) to cross the coast into Europe. Serrate was developed as a result of the defection by a Ju88 crew in May 1943 allowed them to home onto German FuG 202 AI, as did the knowledge of NJ beacon locations. 141 Squadron was the first Serrate operator with Beaufighters and then the cast off NF Mk IIs they converted to in late 1943.

Things accelerated pretty quickly as D-Day approached. In May 1944 as Mk X radar came into widespread use Mk VIII radar was cleared for use over Europe. After D-Day Mk X radar equipped airplanes were cleared to operate over the continent. The point being, the  lack of GCI control didn't limit radar equipped Mosquitos from operating offensively beyond GCI range. There was also a very robust Bomber Support efforts (including 418 Sqn and 605 Sqn) that used FB Mk VIs and Mk 1 eyeballs of the crew on "Flower" (Intruder) ops around NJ airfields.

The take away being, for offensive night gameplay GCI vectors would not be required. Put some AI target drones flying around and some bright moonlight and you'll have a pretty authentic FB Mk VI experience.

Throw in that there is no level autopilot, using onboard radar would be an exercise in futility IMO. I would not be interested in a high fidelity Mosquito night fighter module.

On 5/21/2022 at 3:11 AM, Mogster said:

One mystery is why the Luftwaffe failed to attack landing RAF and USAAF heavy bombers more often when the occasional dawn/dusk attacks of this type were quite successful. One suggestion is that the Germany high command preferred the propaganda value of allied aircraft being brought down over German held territory rather than on English soil. 

That's certainly what Theo Boiten posits. Apparently Herr Hitler ordered the halt of Fernnachtjagd ops over the UK.

[HotTom]

22 hours ago, Robi-wan said:

 

However WRT to the Luftwaffe, close GCI control shrunk considerably after the introduction of the Bomber Stream on the night of 30/31 May 1942. Control switched from NJ staying within a short distance of their home field with GCI to ranging all over Europe under the direction of the Fighter Division controllers. Generally speaking, running commentary of the the Bomber Stream became the SOP as did directing groups of NJ to beacons then target cities. NJ had Naxos to home in on the H2S ground mapping radar of RAF bombers, and Flensburg to home in on the tail warning Monica.

 

Robi-Wan, one thing I learned "How to be a Writer School" many decades ago, was Never Use Acronyms or NUA in your parlance. I know. It sounds cool to "talk the talk" but it's pointless if your audience has no idea what you mean.

Edited May 23, 2022 by HotTom

[HotTom]

While radar for the Mosquito would be a very welcome addition, it would require significant new coding and it doesn't really belong in the FB VI.

The biggest problem in writing historical missions for the Mossie is the lack of adequate maps. The Mosquito generally flew long range missions deep over enemy territory. Most of its activity post D-Day was over Denmark and Norway and over south central France, especially Brittany and the Bay of Biscay and also northern Germany along the Baltic Sea coast.

We don't have maps of any of those areas. Why introduce an aircraft that you can't adequately support?

Edited May 23, 2022 by HotTom

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, HotTom said:

While radar for the Mosquito would be a very welcome addition, it would require significant new coding and it doesn't really belong in the FB VI.

The biggest problem in writing historical missions for the Mossie is the lack of adequate maps. The Mosquito generally flew long range missions deep over enemy territory. Most of its activity post D-Day was over Denmark and Norway and over south central France, especially Brittany and the Bay of Biscay and also northern Germany along the Baltic Sea coast.

We don't have maps of any of those areas. Why introduce an aircraft that you can't adequately support?

 

The perpetual DCS problem. Esp for WW2. ED just needs to pick a year that isn't 1945 and go for it with a core plane set and expand forward and back. 

Gotta say though the night fighter thing is pretty cool.

Also have they announced the next ED WW2 module? 

[Robi-wan]

4 hours ago, HotTom said:

Robi-Wan, one thing I learned "How to be a Writer School" many decades ago, was Never Use Acronyms or NUA in your parlance. I know. It sounds cool to "talk the talk" but it's pointless if your audience has no idea what you mean.

 

Fair enough...

Okay kids, a show of hands, raise your hand if you were confused by WRT? If so, it stands for With Respect To...

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand SOP? SOP is short for Standard Operating Procedure.

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand GCI? GCI is short for Ground Control Intercept

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand NJ? NJ is short for Nachtjagd, which refers to the WWII (apologies...) make that World War Two, German (in case there was some confusion concerning the nation) Luftwaffe night fighter arm. Not literally an arm mind you, more like a branch, but of a tree or river/stream.

Raise your hand if you were confused or did not understand RAF? RAF is short for the Royal Air Force, and in this context it's the Royal Air Force of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But I confess that I took the lazy approach and did not state that I used RAF to imply the inclusion of other Royal Air Force units flying the Mosquito like the RCAF, RAAF, RNZAF and RNoAF squadrons. And for that I am greatly embarrassed and deeply humiliated.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Robi-wan

[peachmonkey]

14 hours ago, Robi-wan said:

Fair enough...

Okay kids, a show of hands, raise your hand if you were confused by WRT? If so, it stands for With Respect To...

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand SOP? SOP is short for Standard Operating Procedure.

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand GCI? GCI is short for Ground Control Intercept

Raise your hand if you were confused by or did not understand NJ? NJ is short for Nachtjagd, which refers to the WWII (apologies...) make that World War Two, German (in case there was some confusion concerning the nation) Luftwaffe night fighter arm. Not literally an arm mind you, more like a branch, but of a tree or river/stream.

Raise your hand if you were confused or did not understand RAF? RAF is short for the Royal Air Force, and in this context it's the Royal Air Force of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But I confess that I took the lazy approach and did not state that I used RAF to imply the inclusion of other Royal Air Force units flying the Mosquito like the RCAF, RAAF, RNZAF and RNoAF squadrons. And for that I am greatly embarrassed and deeply humiliated.

 

 

 

I've raised all 5 hands. If that helps.

[Robi-wan]

8 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

I've raised all 5 hands. If that helps.

Absolutely. Hopefully you can re-read my post and easily grasp the content. But remember, books are your friend, get to know them. Read them, and not just the captions of pictures. Take notes. If you get a kindle edition, you can highlight and make notecards.

The top three on this topic for me are...but be warned, they use abbreviations and acronyms.

The History of Air Intercept Radar and the British Nightfighter by Ian White

Instruments of Darkness by Alfred Price

Night Fighters by Bill Gunston

Here are a couple of worthwhile additional choices on this topic.

German Night Fighter Force by Gebhard Aders (the charts at the back are hard to read compared to the hardback edition)

Mosquito Aces of World War Two by Andrew Thomas

Most Secret War by RV Jones

Not available in a kindle edition, hard to find but very worthwhile is Confound and Destroy by Martin Streetly, it's excellent. 

I also like Mosquitos über Berlin: Nachtjagd mit Messerschmitt Bf 109 und Me 262 by Andreas Zapf. But that's just me.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Robi-wan

[HotTom]

RAF I knew. The rest, not at all.

Seriously, show me a glossary of RAF World War 2 acronyms that includes any of the rest of those. Bet you can't.

I spent 28 years in the US Army and speak eloquent US Acronym. What's a BFO?

Edited May 26, 2022 by HotTom