PBY Catalina A MUST FOR THE PACIFIC!

[Devil 505]

Why this has not been mentioned is almost blasphemy.  The PBY was the back bone for submarine warfare during WW2 and was responsible for 2/3 of all axis submarine kills during the war.  The capabilities of this aircraft far exceed what we expect in DCS.  Everything from Torpedo and bomb runs on ships to recon, and then search and rescue.  Both day and night capable, this aircraft was a beast and huge success to both the European and  Pacific campaign.  I could not think of a more fitting aircraft to bring to the Pacific that was so iconic.  I would even go as far as saying this one deserves to be made by ED.  

 

One thing I would love to see is search and rescue missions implemented into the Dynamic Campaign when it is released.  The ability to rescue downed pilots in the sea and return them to the ship or a base would improve stats when showing what aircraft/pilots are available for future missions.  SAR missions would create sub missions such as air cover for the rescue aircraft.  I would love to hear thoughts/opinions on this. I highly recommend watching the short documentary below.  I had no idea the PBY was virtually silent when going into a dive to attack subs.  Apparently Nazi and Japanese submarines were terrified of them.

 

[Dauntless]

Black Cats!!! 

[rkk01]

Quote

  The PBY was the back bone for submarine warfare during WW2 and was responsible for 2/3 of all axis submarine kills during the war.  

Sorry what…!?

 

that’s a bold claim…!

Edited September 24, 2021 by rkk01

[Rakkis]

I love the Catalina, I really do, but if you're looking for more than an AI asset I don't think we're anywhere close to where we need to be with the Multi-crew technologies to satisfactorily make it a full fledged module. For WWII SAR Missions, Anti-Sub, Artillery Spotting ect ect, I think the OS2U Kingfisher is more practical and achievable currently.

[Mogster]

Used plenty in the Atlantic also. A PBY shadowed the Bismarck.

[Devil 505]

4 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Sorry what…!?

 

that’s a bold claim…!

 

I could be wrong on that one.  Going based off some data I found online and we all know how accurate that can be at times.  Please roast me if I am wrong.

[PhoenixRising]

This article claims 25 of the 60 subs sink by the US Navy were from the Consolidated PBYs and 13 were sunk by Consolidated B-24s making 2/3 killed by Consolidated Aircraft.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/08/31/cat-tales-the-story-of-world-war-iis-pby-flying-boat/

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

[rkk01]

25 out of the 60 subs sunk by the US - certainly a good tally…

 

… but not very representative when you realise that the German Kriegsmarine lost 765 U-boats

 

From u-boat.net

 

[Devil 505]

I think both sets of data are accurate.  I think what needs to be added is 2/3 of all U-boats sunk by the US were do to Consolidated PBY's and PB4Y's.  

 

I still think this would be a great aircraft to being to the pacific campaign, especially when the Naval side of the WW2 assets start to get brought into play more.  Either way, the WW2 pacific time period is shaping up to have a bright future ahead.  Appreciate the stats above gents.

[Rick50]

 

Might not be the prettiest aircraft, but it's got a unique character!  Never actually seen one flying, but I have seen one 20 years ago on Vancouver Island... guessing it might have been a waterbomber forrest fire conversion? 

 

I do think the PBY deserves to be modelled... I flew a freeware fan-made version in FS2004 and it was one of my favorites... had to really think through your landing approach since it didn't have flaps. Use angle of attack as your "flaps".

 

Thing is, what would we use it for in DCS ? Are the WW2 Navy assets enough to justify actually going sub hunting?  Are the areas so small that it's kind of a turkey shoot for a couple of PBY's ?  

 

I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, just wondering if it's a practical module for today and not say in 5 years after the various eras of DCS Navy systems get upgraded...

 

[Devil 505]

19 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

Might not be the prettiest aircraft, but it's got a unique character!  Never actually seen one flying, but I have seen one 20 years ago on Vancouver Island... guessing it might have been a waterbomber forrest fire conversion? 

 

I do think the PBY deserves to be modelled... I flew a freeware fan-made version in FS2004 and it was one of my favorites... had to really think through your landing approach since it didn't have flaps. Use angle of attack as your "flaps".

 

Thing is, what would we use it for in DCS ? Are the WW2 Navy assets enough to justify actually going sub hunting?  Are the areas so small that it's kind of a turkey shoot for a couple of PBY's ?  

 

I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, just wondering if it's a practical module for today and not say in 5 years after the various eras of DCS Navy systems get upgraded...

 

 

I would concur with this.  Eventually it would be great once the Navy assets are turned out a little more and Naval combat becomes more of a thing.  I would say this is going to be a must that is on ED's horizon as the Pacific was a host to almost all major Sea Battles during the war.  

[Rick50]

 

Maybe it might be worthwhile as a "Black Cat" for raids. Also for antisub searching with the Mariannas map... 

 

If a "Solomon Islands" map gets created, that could make for some very interesting gameplay.  Why?  Many islands, lots of different places for ships to be searched for, many possible ground bases.  Could make some barges with cam nets on top, as a moveable "FOB" refueling/spawning/rearming point you could place using the editor, or as an asset for a dynamic campaign. Similar for a smaller supply ship.  

 

One thing to consider, that I proposed about Sea Kings and Sea Hawks, is that while they would be complex and capable in a barely working Navy system, their and Catalina's existence could help PUSH the development of a full working Navy, rather than waiting for the working Navy and then build the aircraft. The downside to that, is that this means signifcantly increased risk for a 3rd party dev, who's really uncertain of how this might sell or bomb horribly, given that it's rather less "sexy" or "exciting" compared to a Moskito or Tomcat... ultra low speeds, the aerodynamic qualities of a brick, as important as it's missions were there was not as much variation as other types, drop a couple pieces of ordnance and then fly a few hours home. All for a "Navy" system with all the sophystication of a potatoe. But it could work, it COULD sell.... it's just not a guarantee.

 

One thing that gives me hope for DCS long term is the S-200 SAM system that just got released.  That shows to me that ED is committed to DCS and improving its overall systems, along with the new clouds systems, multi-crew and so on. I expect the Navy systems will get some upgrades in future, along with Combined Arms and improving ground units. 

 

 

 

[Devil 505]

Right on Rick! I remember a while back there being definite talk from ED that other Naval assets where going to be made and all were going to be improved quite a bit.  I thought I heard rumors that even a Naval module was not out of the cards at some point.  Nothing else said on that.  With military customers coming to them and asking them to make armor modules, I would suspect we will see ED branch out to ground and naval units more in the future.  It only makes sense.  Always excited for the future of this simulator.  Not a single one comes close, past, present, or future in my opinion.

[Rick50]

 

Well... 

 

Consider that there is at least two products I know of that "gamers" have played, that are now used quite a bit in actual military simulations.  One offered by Lockmart, the other by Bohemia (unless it's now a separate biz unit). The Lockmart offers the whole world, and I'll bet the mil product is substantially upgraded from it's original "retail" version in some dramatic ways. For instance, I know it was being offered with a sub right from the start, so I'm guessing they have since made the sea bed accurate for Navy simulations.  They likely then added all sorts of properties to the water, like thermal layers, salinity layers and so on. Stuff that has nothing for virtual pilots, but is of vital importance to training a real Navy submarine crew, and or simulating advanced sonar properties, simulating a new piece of code for the latest Mk.48 Torpedo, then re-write, and re-test the code again in say 10,000 virtual torpedo attacks.

 

But I think this is getting a little off topic. I think that waiting for DCS to get realistic and somewhat complex Navy functionality, will take many years. Why? Well, first off, Navy actions are not the current focus of DCS... sure, we have carrier ops, but still the focus is on the jets landing and taking off for missions. Combined Arms may get an upgrade sometime soon-ish, but even that might take 2 more years. The customers really seem to want integrated air defense systems, so that the SAM's are more realistic and a worthy opponent. They also seem to really want dynamic campaigns. More multi-crew aircraft. Maybe a bomber. More AI assets, and that do a better job of replicating human behavior. Somehow I think detailed complex Navy systems is near the bottom of a very long list of things ED wants to do. 

 

That said... maybe a 3rd party wants to make a detailed Navy Ops Module ??!

 

 

[Lurker]

Is it even possible to ditch on the water in DCS World, let alone land? I have no idea, but the last few times I crash landed in the water it usually ended up being a huge fireball as soon as I touched the waves. Flying boats might be impossible in DCS World until the physics for this are implemented in the engine itself. 

[mmarques]

I would buy a full fidelity Catalina so quickly, loved the old FSX module.

[Rick50]

7 hours ago, Lurker said:

Is it even possible to ditch on the water in DCS World, let alone land? I have no idea, but the last few times I crash landed in the water it usually ended up being a huge fireball as soon as I touched the waves. Flying boats might be impossible in DCS World until the physics for this are implemented in the engine itself. 

 

I'm not concerned about that. Anphibious landings and takeoffs in other sims work fine, I doubt it takes much programming for function.  Now, if you wanted a full phyics package where every wave pushed the airframe round, feel each wave crest, that might take a lot more effort. Or it might just require a physics plug-in like some game engines use.

[Barrett_g]

Possibly the first military aircraft to have a Flight Engineer.

 

As a full fidelity module this would be really cool to pull start the APU, get the engines started and adjust the fuel flow.  Lots of stuff to tinker with!

 

 

[Ercoupe]

Looking at the history of what has been built for this sim, I'm really doubting that you are ever going to see a PBY in here. Unless it's done by some modder. This sim is all about tactical fighter airframes.

[Fenin]

Yeah, this guy has a point.  The Mi-8, Mi-24, UH-1H, CE2, Gazelle, A-10A & C, C-101, Yak-52, and the L-39 are all just random outliers and don't count in any way.   Tactical Fighter Simulator confirmed.

 

PBY would be fun, and gets a +1 from me.

[Rick50]

 

I'm gonna make a suggestion, one I've made for a few different aircraft proposals (sorry if I'm a broken record!):

 

PBY-5 Catallina / Canso  mod!

 

 

Not sure if multicrew would be possible with a mod.  But otherwise, it has benefits: much more likely to be finished much quicker. If documentation is missing, no problem just don't model that part. No licensing permissions? If it's free then it's harder and less likely to get stopped by the rights holder. Uncertain payware dev will make money off it? No problem, no expectation of profits means no need for profits, just put in the time and effort you can, and colaboratively it gets finished.

 

 

I've proposed the free mod idea for the B-52, B-1B and probably something else I'm not remembering, largely because those are complex aircraft to create the systems for, poor availability of deep documentation, risk for return on investment, and the demanding nature of purchasers of high fidellity pay modules in DCS could make it difficult to please, and how Boeing and Rockwell may have zero interest into offering a licensing deal, and who really knows what they'd charge you for the licensing?

 

[Gambit21]

There's a PBY museum up my way, with one that I've been allowed permission to crawl around inside of.

I began a high-res 3D model of it some years back, but other content creation projects intervened.

[Rick50]

 

Ok on the modification (not paid module) front, there is:

 

Quote

 

Welcome to WWII, The Pacific!

Herein you will find The Japanese Pacific Fleet in all its glory!  Most ships are armed, with the exception of some MG's and a few smaller guns.

To get the battles started, I am releasing two carriers, Battleships, Destroyers, and a set of merchant/support ships and landing craft.

No fleet would be complete without the Aircraft! For those, a separate thread will be created.

 

 

 

 

Now that we have targets for it... presenting... the PBY Catalina!!

 

Quote

Markindel's PBY Catalina Torpedo Bomber

Two version included:

Standard land based, carrier capable

Float Torpedo Bomber

 

 

 

Please note, to use the torpedo bomber/float plane, the Landing tender is required!!! :

..

 

No I haven't tried it, my gamebox is offline and will be a while, but enjoy!

 

[Rick50]

Free mod of the PBY Catallina in previous post... anyone  try it yet?!

[Ramstein]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:05 AM, Devil 505 said:

Why this has not been mentioned is almost blasphemy.  The PBY was the back bone for submarine warfare during WW2 and was responsible for 2/3 of all axis submarine kills during the war.  The capabilities of this aircraft far exceed what we expect in DCS.  Everything from Torpedo and bomb runs on ships to recon, and then search and rescue.  Both day and night capable, this aircraft was a beast and huge success to both the European and  Pacific campaign.  I could not think of a more fitting aircraft to bring to the Pacific that was so iconic.  I would even go as far as saying this one deserves to be made by ED.  

 

One thing I would love to see is search and rescue missions implemented into the Dynamic Campaign when it is released.  The ability to rescue downed pilots in the sea and return them to the ship or a base would improve stats when showing what aircraft/pilots are available for future missions.  SAR missions would create sub missions such as air cover for the rescue aircraft.  I would love to hear thoughts/opinions on this. I highly recommend watching the short documentary below.  I had no idea the PBY was virtually silent when going into a dive to attack subs.  Apparently Nazi and Japanese submarines were terrified of them.

 

In real life these were extremely loud, obnoxiously loud! I can't imagine quiet. at all  (I have heard these and other sea planes, float planes from WWII) in real life...