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USS Forestall what to expect?


Tank50us

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Now, while my unit is planning to do an extensive battery of tests on the USS Forestall, I am wondering just what can be expected from the ship on day one. Some of the things we intend to test are:

 

  • Can people without the F-14 Module spawn on the deck? (I know this is stated to be possible, but it never hurts to test it, right?)
  • How many players can actually spawn on the ship?
  • How many players can actually land and fit on the ship?
  • Can we use the LSO station?
  • What weapons will the ship have?
  • How well can the Forestall protect itself from attack?
  • What bits will assets will come with the ship?
  • What can land and be serviced on the ship?
  • and much more.

 

Now, I'm not expecting an answer from Heatblur on this, and even if we were to get one, it's still fun to put the theory to the actual test (after all, it is how bugs get found, right?)

 

What do you guys think? Think it'll be fun to run such a test? Think it'll be pointless? Does someone have a crystal ball to tell us what we can expect? Leave your comments below!

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It is hoped that more consideration will be given to the aircraft carrier function, rather than to reduce the function. I hope to have a better aircraft carrier simulation and am willing to pay for a more real aircraft carrier

Hope to integrate a-4e-c produced by a third party

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We know from Tomcat FAQ that we'll get at least current Stennis functionality.

 

The module will be free but as naval asset only such aircraft can land and spawn like F-14, F-18, Su-33, A-4 (plus other naval AI) or any VTOL and heli.

Only the group coordination and taxiing skills will show how many players can fit. Since we have no backing option we won't get close to RL numbers.

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On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • Can people without the F-14 Module spawn on the deck? (I know this is stated to be possible, but it never hurts to test it, right?)

 

Pretty sure this is a free asset, that won't require the purchase of the Tomcat.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • How many players can actually spawn on the ship?
  • How many players can actually land and fit on the ship?

 

Well I can't answer that, but the Forrestal is a bit smaller than our current Nimitz-Roosevelt carriers, though I think this famous image (Battle Force Zulu, taken folllowing the 1991 Gulf War) should probably answer the question.

 

In the bottom-left is a Forrestal-class (CV-61, USS Ranger), and in the top right is one of the ships of our Supercarrier module (CVN-71, USS Theodore Roosevelt):

 

US_Navy_Battle_Force_Zulu_carriers_overh

 

As for players, no idea. Though on this subject I wish there was a way to hand place where client aircraft can spawn, like we're able to do on land and with static objects.

 

See this thread and this thread.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • Can we use the LSO station?

 

Presumably.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • What weapons will the ship have?

 

From what I can tell, we currently have a post SLEP USS Forrestal (which for the USS Forrestal, means 1985 at the very earliest).

 

As such, these are what to expect AFAIK:

  • 3x Mk15 Phalanx Block 0 CIWS
  • 2x Mk29 GMLS for IBPDMS, firing RIM-7M Sea Sparrow, with 6x Mk95 directors. (Independence had a 3rd)

Some ships however went through SLEP at different times:

  • CV-59 went through SLEP from 18th Jan. 1983 - 20th May 1985
  • CV-60 from 28th Sept. 1980 - 2nd Feb. 1983, though only with 2x Mk29 GMLS, firing RIM-7H, with RIM-7M replacing it in 1985.
  • CV-61 didn't go through SLEP at all (though was upgraded with IBPDMS and Phalanx sometime during the early-to-mid 80s)
  • CV-62 from 17th Feb. 1985 - 15 Aug. 1988.

 

Before IBPDMS, all ships were fitted with 2x Mk25 GMLS for BPDMS, firing the RIM-7E, with 2x Mk115 directors. And before that the ships were armed with 8x 5"/52 Mk42 guns, though they were removed sometime during the early 70s.

 

This is excluding things like small-arms (including machine guns).

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • How well can the Forestall protect itself from attack?

 

In DCS, probably about as well as the CVN-70, USS Carl Vinson

 

Though note that DCS' ships so far have been incredibly simplified when it comes to their RADARs and fire-control systems (often having RADARs undefined, even pretty significant ones and having directors that aren't implemented, with missiles guided via magic), they also doen't have any countermeasures or ESM equipment (such as RWRs, and other ELINT equipment).

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • What bits will assets will come with the ship?

 

So far Heatblur have teased this.

 

Though one thing I worry about is there'll be no escorts suitable for the Forrestal ships (all our current USN ships, including the Oliver Hazard Perry, are depicted as they were sometime post 2000s, after all the Forrestals had been decommissioned.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 5:51 AM, Tank50us said:
  • What can land and be serviced on the ship?

Everything the USN operated from aircraft carriers from 1955, to the mid-to-late 90s.

 

For the timeframe of our ships (1983 - 1998), these are the list of aircraft that were deployed onboard Forrestal class ships:

  • A-6E
  • A-7E
  • C-2A
  • E-2C
  • EA-3B
  • EA-6B
  • F-14A/B
  • F/A-18C
  • HH-60H
  • KA-6D
  • S-3A/B
  • SH-3H
  • SH-60F
  • US-3A

There are plenty of others, and unfortunately 1983 means we just miss out on the F-4J and F-4S Phantoms IIs (which were last on the Forrestals in 1981).


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

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4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Everything the USN operated from aircraft carriers from 1955, to the mid-to-late 90s.

 

I'm talking about more than just was on the ship historically. I mean which of the planes in DCS can successfully land, rearm/refuel, and take off again (Cat assisted or not), and how many people can actually squeeze onto the flight deck as well. Basically... have some fun... FOR SCIENCE!

 

Science GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY

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11 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

I'm talking about more than just was on the ship historically. I mean which of the planes in DCS can successfully land, rearm/refuel, and take off again (Cat assisted or not), and how many people can actually squeeze onto the flight deck as well. Basically... have some fun... FOR SCIENCE!

 

They're on the list 😉

 

But I guess if you're extending it to anything, then anything that'll fit, that has a takeoff and landing run shorter than 300m/1000 feet.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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11 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

They're on the list 😉

 

But I guess if you're extending it to anything, then anything that'll fit, that has a takeoff and landing run shorter than 300m/1000 feet.

 

Or a modeled tail-hook and short take-off roll.... and let's of course not forget the vertibirds

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1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

modeled tail-hook

There's a big difference between a trap-capable naval aircraft hook and a hook for just emergency arrested landing.

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37 minutes ago, draconus said:

There's a big difference between a trap-capable naval aircraft hook and a hook for just emergency arrested landing.

 

Oh I know in the real world that's the case, But I'm talking about how many of these aircraft, both naval and non-naval (with hooks) can be crammed onto the Forrestal.

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7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Pretty sure this is a free asset, that won't require the purchase of the Tomcat.

 

 

Well I can't answer that, but the Forrestal is a bit smaller than our current Nimitz-Roosevelt carriers, though I think this famous image (Battle Force Zulu, taken folllowing the 1991 Gulf War) should probably answer the question.

 

In the bottom-left is a Forrestal-class (CV-61, USS Ranger), and in the top right is one of the ships of our Supercarrier module (CVN-71, USS Theodore Roosevelt):

 

US_Navy_Battle_Force_Zulu_carriers_overh

 

As for players, no idea. Though on this subject I wish there was a way to hand place where client aircraft can spawn, like were able to do on land and with static objects.

 

 

Presumably.

 

 

From what I can tell, we currently have a post SLEP USS Forrestal (which for the USS Forrestal, means 1985 at the very earliest).

 

As such, these are what to expect AFAIK:

  • 3x Mk15 Phalanx Block 0 CIWS
  • 2x Mk29 GMLS for IBPDMS, firing RIM-7M Sea Sparrow, with 6x Mk95 directors. (Independence had a 3rd)

Some ships however went through SLEP at different times:

  • CV-59 went through SLEP from 18th Jan. 1983 - 20th May 1985
  • CV-60 from 28th Sept. 1980 - 2nd Feb. 1983, though only with 2x Mk29 GMLS, firing RIM-7H, with RIM-7M replacing it in 1985.
  • CV-61 didn't go through SLEP at all (though was upgraded with IBPDMS and Phalanx sometime during the early-to-mid 80s)
  • CV-62 from 17th Feb. 1985 - 15 Aug. 1988.

 

Before IBPDMS, all ships were fitted with 2x Mk25 GMLS for BPDMS, firing the RIM-7E, with 2x Mk115 directors. And before that the ships were armed with 8x 5"/52 Mk42 guns, though they were removed sometime during the early 70s.

 

This is excluding things like small-arms (including machine guns).

 

 

In DCS, probably about as well as the CVN-70, USS Carl Vinson

 

Though note that DCS' ships so far have been incredibly simplified when it comes to their RADARs and fire-control systems (often having RADARs undefined, even pretty significant ones and having directors that aren't implemented, with missiles guided via magic), they also doen't have any countermeasures or ESM equipment (such as RWRs, and other ELINT equipment).

 

 

So far Heatblur have teased this.

 

Though one thing I worry about is there'll be no escorts suitable for the Forrestal ships (all our current USN ships, including the Oliver Hazard Perry, are depicted as they were sometime post 2000s, after all the Forrestals had been decommissioned.

 

Everything the USN operated from aircraft carriers from 1955, to the mid-to-late 90s.

 

For the timeframe of our ships (1983 - 1998), these are the list of aircraft that were deployed onboard Forrestal class ships:

  • A-6E
  • A-7E
  • C-2A
  • E-2C
  • EA-3B
  • EA-6B
  • F-14A/B
  • F/A-18C
  • HH-60H
  • KA-6D
  • S-3A/B
  • SH-3H
  • SH-60F
  • US-3A

There are plenty of others, and unfortunately 1983 means we just miss out on the F-4J and F-4S Phantoms IIs (which were last on the Forrestals in 1981).

 

Why the narrow time frame? Are we talking just the Forestall or the class? If and when the Phantom comes out it should be used. The Ranger carried them in 79/80 when they were rammed in the Straights of Malacca. And don't forget the A-5 Vigillante, and RFP-8. There are still C-2 Greyhounds...

Sempre Fortis

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On 9/26/2021 at 12:48 AM, 352nd_Hoss said:

Why the narrow time frame? Are we talking just the Forestall or the class? If and when the Phantom comes out it should be used. The Ranger carried them in 79/80 when they were rammed in the Straights of Malacca. And don't forget the A-5 Vigillante, and RFP-8. There are still C-2 Greyhounds...

 

I've narrowed the nimeframe because that's what Heatblur's Forrestal currently appears to depict based on the screenshots (i.e a post SLEP ship from at the earliest 1985 for the USS Forrestal).

 

We haven't seen Ranger yet, so I can't comment on what timeframe that ship represents (I've just made an assumption, which may or may not end up being true). I'm only talking from a strictly historical perespective here.

 

Of course you don't have to do this, the mission you design is completely up to you, and you can of course use any aircraft you see fit. The list I provided was just for the timeframe HB's Forrestal appears to depict.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 10:11 PM, Tank50us said:

Or a modeled tail-hook and short take-off roll.... and let's of course not forget the vertibirds

 

Well, stuff that can take off and land vertically would have a takeoff run shorter than 300m/1000 feet. 😉

 

And as Draconus said, don't confuse a tailhook used for field arresting systems to be used with a carrier arresting system, IRL if you tried to land say, an F-16 on a carrier, not only would you severely damage the landing gear, you'll probably rip the tailhook off, or at least severely damage it.

 

Of course, that doesn't prevent you from trying.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

And as Draconus said, don't confuse a tailhook used for field arresting systems to be used with a carrier arresting system, IRL if you tried to land say, an F-16 on a carrier, not only would you severely damage the landing gear, you'll probably rip the tailhook off, or at least severely damage it.

 

Of course, that doesn't prevent you from trying.

 

Oh I'm well aware of that. But from what I understand in DCS, if it has a hook, it'll snag the wire no problem (assuming you make a correct approach of course). The plan is to start everyone at a base with a waypoint that should get you in visual range of the carrier with a 10kt head-wind and the ship itself moving at 10kts. I'm hoping to get 20+ people for that, because I think it'll be fun, and a good chance to put our server through its paces. Fuel loads and weapon loads will be restricted to about 75% and CATMs/Smokes respectively, and if all goes well, it should go about as well as the one GR video did. It should be interesting to see that many people crammed on if all goes according to plan.

 

Rules:
land intact
don't explode
Once down, safely taxi off the landing area and go park somewhere where there's room.

Helicopters will be the last down.

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1 minute ago, Tank50us said:

Oh I'm well aware of that. But from what I understand in DCS, if it has a hook, it'll snag the wire no problem (assuming you make a correct approach of course). The plan is to start everyone at a base with a waypoint that should get you in visual range of the carrier with a 10kt head-wind and the ship itself moving at 10kts. I'm hoping to get 20+ people for that, because I think it'll be fun, and a good chance to put our server through its paces. Fuel loads and weapon loads will be restricted to about 75% and CATMs/Smokes respectively, and if all goes well, it should go about as well as the one GR video did. It should be interesting to see that many people crammed on if all goes according to plan.

 

Rules:
land intact
don't explode
Once down, safely taxi off the landing area and go park somewhere where there's room.

Helicopters will be the last down.

 

In that case, feel free to go nuts. 🙂

  • Like 1

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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On 9/25/2021 at 11:10 AM, Northstar98 said:

 

In the bottom-left is a Forrestal-class (CV-61, USS Ranger), and in the top right is one of the ships of our Supercarrier module (CVN-71, USS Theodore Roosevelt):

 

US_Navy_Battle_Force_Zulu_carriers_overh

 

 

 

Bottom one on the right is a Kitty Hawk Class.  I may be partial but any devs want to do this one?  Lol

 


Edited by WaWa74
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10 hours ago, WaWa74 said:

Bottom one on the right is a Kitty Hawk Class.  I may be partial but any devs want to do this one?  Lol

 

I'd love it too.

 

Only thing I'll say though is that HB are AFAIK, already giving us all 4 of the Forrestals (at least eventually), and we're desperately lacking BLUFOR naval assets for the 80s, so personally, I'd rather get something like a Knox, Spruance and Belknap, before doing another period carrier.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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