Radio Menu redesign

[ColinM9991]

Raising this to follow on from a brief discussion in Discord and to request a redesign of the Function keys radio menu so that it provides a more user friendly experience to both HOTAS enthusiasts and VR players.

 

In my limited knowledge of the engine, I don't see a technical limitation for redesign the radio menu because most mission editor and mission interactions with the radio menu are done via triggers or scripted commands. The rest simply comes down to the engine translating those functions into key presses which it seems to already do. (Please remind me of how inferior I am if this is wrong)

 

The two options that I think would work are:

1. Allowing users to rebind the radio keys. While not ideal, because the menu still has UX and UI issues, it allows people to put their commonly used keys somewhere more accessible. The game should handle these new keys as it currently does with the F keys, a duplicate bind should be allowed and used only to control the comms menu when it is open.

 

2. Overhaul the comms menu. Jester's radial menu springs to mind as an efficient, VR and user friendly approach. There are other design options of course but my design skills look like a child throwing buckets of paint at a wall.

 

While I appreciate there is software and hardware that exists, such as VoiceAttack, a mouse with side keys or a Function key pad, I'd emphasize that an additional purchase or download shouldn't be required to work around this. They'd get the job done, but it still leaves a design issue for VR users and adds an additional thing to configure and manage. 

 

I also appreciate this won't be at the top of the priority list. At the very least, having it added to the list would be a good starting point. The campaign menu has had some great improvements over the past several months, I believe this can too.

Edited September 28, 2021 by ColinM9991

[SharpeXB]

I find the Jester menu to look too obtrusive. The compact menu off to the side and visually unobtrusive is far better. As for mapping keys, you know you can actually click on it too?

 

As long as we’re dreaming about comms improvements, how about a complete voice response system? Like Siri or Cortana?

[ColinM9991]

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I find the Jester menu to look too obtrusive. The compact menu off to the side and visually unobtrusive is far better.

Hence why I said "there are other design options".

 

14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

As long as we’re dreaming about comms improvements, how about a complete voice response system? Like Siri or Cortana?

Each to their own. I'm not going to suggest that in this thread because I wouldn't use it.

[Northstar98]

Personally, I'm okay with the communications menu, though it would be good if it only showed things your radio is tuned to, kinda like the radio menu in that other sim.

[StolenPen]

Personally would really like to see F1-F12 keys able to have a secondary bind so I could bind a modifier + the num keys on my BuddyFox UFC, I can't easily reach the keyboard when playing but the UFC is right there. I imagine a simple bind for menu option up, down & enter may work better for a lot of people so they don't have to touch the mouse but can simply navigate the menus.

 

19 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

As long as we’re dreaming about comms improvements, how about a complete voice response system? Like Siri or Cortana?

 

This is possible with VAICOM PRO/Voice Attack, so I imagine there would be less interest in it being core, also a lot more complex and less return on the work I'd imagine than the simple options proposed which I think lots of DCS users would use.

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, ColinM9991 said:

Raising this to follow on from a brief discussion in Discord and to request a redesign of the Function keys radio menu so that it provides a more user friendly experience to both HOTAS enthusiasts and VR players.

 

In my limited knowledge of the engine, I don't see a technical limitation for redesign the radio menu because most mission editor and mission interactions with the radio menu are done via triggers or scripted commands. The rest simply comes down to the engine translating those functions into key presses which it seems to already do. (Please remind me of how inferior I am if this is wrong)

 

The two options that I think would work are:

1. Allowing users to rebind the radio keys. While not ideal, because the menu still has UX and UI issues, it allows people to put their commonly used keys somewhere more accessible. The game should handle these new keys as it currently does with the F keys, a duplicate bind should be allowed and used only to control the comms menu when it is open.

 

2. Overhaul the comms menu. Jester's radial menu springs to mind as an efficient, VR and user friendly approach. There are other design options of course but my design skills look like a child throwing buckets of paint at a wall.

 

While I appreciate there is software and hardware that exists, such as VoiceAttack, a mouse with side keys or a Function key pad, I'd emphasize that an additional purchase or download shouldn't be required to work around this. They'd get the job done, but it still leaves a design issue for VR users and adds an additional thing to configure and manage. 

 

I also appreciate this won't be at the top of the priority list. At the very least, having it added to the list would be a good starting point. The campaign menu has had some great improvements over the past several months, I believe this can too.

 

 

You aren't the first one suggesting this.

There have been a lot of requests for improved radio menu controls

 

Personally I stopped waiting for a proper solution and stepped over to the Voice Attack VAICOM camp. Using Pointctrl, the radio menu was about the last thing forcing me to use my mouse in VR.

 

But I still support the wish for a more user friendy comms menu.

 

Check out these quick forum search results below. Some of them are proposing pretty clever solutions imo (the 4-way hat switch option being my personal favorite)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by sirrah

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, StolenPen said:

This is possible with VAICOM PRO/Voice Attack, so I imagine there would be less interest in it being core, also a lot more complex and less return on the work I'd imagine than the simple options proposed which I think lots of DCS users would use.

What I mean is complete speech recognition, not just being able to recognize words. Like they way you can say “Hey BMW give me directions” etc. Like what you see Alexa and such are capable of. You would speak to the AI like you’d speak to a real person, not via keywords or menu options. 

[ColinM9991]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

What I mean is complete speech recognition, not just being able to recognize words. Like they way you can say “Hey BMW give me directions” etc. Like what you see Alexa and such are capable of. You would speak to the AI like you’d speak to a real person, not via keywords or menu options. 

I do like that idea. Us Irish always suffer from voice recognition though, so that'd be my main concern. Aside from the obvious time constraints. That wouldn't be a quick thing to develop.

Edited September 28, 2021 by ColinM9991

[Gierasimov]

I like the fact that one can use keyboard bindings to some of the comms via Options > Controls > Communications category. 

I would like to see that expanded for AAR and ATC. Other than that, navigating comms menu with keyboard arrows or joystick hat would go far, I don't expect to talk natively to DCS to control communications as I believe that amount of work would justify shifting the task to DCS 5.0.

VIACOM PRO just does not cut it for me.

[Nomatic]

I would support a Jester style comm menu over what we have now. I’d LOVE voice control, but only if it’s processed locally. I will not support/use Voice Recognition if it’s processed on a server elsewhere.

[Worrazen]

40 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

What I mean is complete speech recognition, not just being able to recognize words. Like they way you can say “Hey BMW give me directions” etc. Like what you see Alexa and such are capable of. You would speak to the AI like you’d speak to a real person, not via keywords or menu options. 

 

That would usually mean reliant on some external online service, not the most optimal choice for MP. Unless you manage to persuade for a local offline implementation without 50 pages of privacy policies.

 

[StolenPen]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

What I mean is complete speech recognition, not just being able to recognize words. Like they way you can say “Hey BMW give me directions” etc. Like what you see Alexa and such are capable of. You would speak to the AI like you’d speak to a real person, not via keywords or menu options. 

 

Ok sure that would be awesome, to me that is something that would be incredibly resource intensive and take a long time, I think a lot of people would be happy with something simple/a few simple options that would be hopefully not too resource intensive to develop but a massive return for players benefit wise. 

[MAXsenna]

 
Ok sure that would be awesome, to me that is something that would be incredibly resource intensive and take a long time, I think a lot of people would be happy with something simple/a few simple options that would be hopefully not too resource intensive to develop but a massive return for players benefit wise. 

As others already have suggested, you can do that with VA/VAICOM.
"Winger, attack AAA from the NE with Mavericks".

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

As others already have suggested, you can do that with VA/VAICOM.
"Winger, attack AAA from the NE with Mavericks".

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

When you do that does it involve custom mapping phrases to F keys ie saying “Flight”=F1?

[Limaro]

I'd also love this kind of change. And also tried my luck in here:

 

But did not even got any reaction

[sirrah]

11 minutes ago, Limaro said:

I'd also love this kind of change. And also tried my luck in here:

 

But did not even got any reaction

 

Well, the "HAT" switch idea has been proposed many times before, such as here in 2018:

 

 

But yeah, you visualized it nicely in your thread.

I (and I'm sure many folks here) are with you  

 

[MAXsenna]

When you do that does it involve custom mapping phrases to F keys ie saying “Flight”=F1?

No, absolutely not. That's the whole point of VAICOM. It's all included, and VAICOM doesn't use the radio menu at all, really. You can force it up if needed, for custom mission specific F10 menu commands by holding the PTT and say "options" and then say "Take one" for F1 etc. (one needs to do that for cargo sling loading for instance).
It can also tune radios/presets in most modules too.
It has an add in for Jester which is really awesome. Totally hands free. I've never used the Jester wheel ever.
Add in for the new ATC in the super carrier, which let's you "manually" do all the Case I/III steps.
An add in for a special kneeboard that's very handy for JTAC etc. You can even voice record text-to-speech notes.
You can also have different PTTs hardware for different modules. Like I use my Warthog for most modules, but I use my Cougar for Viper and Jeff and my MS FFB2 for helis.
You can of course use other VA profiles together with VAICOM, with some cool tricks. Like I have one profile "that rules them all". Like I say "gear up", and depending on the module I'm in, it will trigger different keystrokes for let's say the Viper and the MiG-21.

If I was to guess, the only regret you will have is that you didn't get it before.

Heads up. Remember to do the MS Speech training a lot. (I did it 20 times). Add airfields etc. MS Speech doesn't understand to the dictionary, with a recording.
Make a different MS Speech profile with training for each microphone you use.
Close VA before each DCS update, and start VA before you start up DCS.
When validating the VAICOM keys, remember to clear ALL text in the key/email fields.
It doesn't support the Hind and Mossie yet. (Nor the A-4), and have some issues with WWII aircrafts in general. Update coming.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[sirrah]

10 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

No, absolutely not. That's the whole point of VAICOM. It's all included, and VAICOM doesn't use the radio menu at all, really. You can force it up if needed, for custom mission specific F10 menu commands by holding the PTT and say "options" and then say "Take one" for F1 etc. (one needs to do that for cargo sling loading for instance).
It can also tune radios/presets in most modules too.
It has an add in for Jester which is really awesome. Totally hands free. I've never used the Jester wheel ever.
Add in for the new ATC in the super carrier, which let's you "manually" do all the Case I/III steps.
An add in for a special kneeboard that's very handy for JTAC etc. You can even voice record text-to-speech notes.
You can also have different PTTs hardware for different modules. Like I use my Warthog for most modules, but I use my Cougar for Viper and Jeff and my MS FFB2 for helis.
You can of course use other VA profiles together with VAICOM, with some cool tricks. Like I have one profile "that rules them all". Like I say "gear up", and depending on the module I'm in, it will trigger different keystrokes for let's say the Viper and the MiG-21.

If I was to guess, the only regret you will have is that you didn't get it before.

Heads up. Remember to do the MS Speech training a lot. (I did it 20 times). Add airfields etc. MS Speech doesn't understand to the dictionary, with a recording.
Make a different MS Speech profile with training for each microphone you use.
Close VA before each DCS update, and start VA before you start up DCS.
When validating the VAICOM keys, remember to clear ALL text in the key/email fields.
It doesn't support the Hind and Mossie yet. (Nor the A-4), and have some issues with WWII aircrafts in general. Update coming.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

Although I too use and love VAICOM, DCS really should invest a little bit in making the radio menu more user/HOTAS friendly. They pretty much already did it with Petrovich in the Hind. Now if they'd do the same for the radio menu I'm sure the many users that can't (or don't want to) use VAICOM would be very happy.

 

[MAXsenna]

 
Although I too use and love VAICOM, DCS really should invest a little bit in making the radio menu more user/HOTAS friendly. They pretty much already did it with Petrovich in the Hind. Now if they'd do the same for the radio menu I'm sure the many users that can't (or don't want to) use VAICOM would be very happy.
 

Yeah, I totally agree. Went a little OT I guess!
I support the "hat" solution, seems the best one!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

If I was to guess, the only regret you will have is that you didn't get it before

ok I searched out what it actually is, I thought it was just another speech to text plug-in. 
That looks awesome

[StolenPen]

7 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

As others already have suggested, you can do that with VA/VAICOM.
"Winger, attack AAA from the NE with Mavericks".

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

Yeah I know that was me! This guy wanted something a bit next level beyond that but I don't think it's worth it for ED, or even to just redo VA/VAICOM when it exists already.

 

[fabio.dangelo]

Il 28/9/2021 at 13:16, ColinM9991 ha scritto:

Raising this to follow on from a brief discussion in Discord and to request a redesign of the Function keys radio menu so that it provides a more user friendly experience to both HOTAS enthusiasts and VR players.

 

In my limited knowledge of the engine, I don't see a technical limitation for redesign the radio menu because most mission editor and mission interactions with the radio menu are done via triggers or scripted commands. The rest simply comes down to the engine translating those functions into key presses which it seems to already do. (Please remind me of how inferior I am if this is wrong)

 

The two options that I think would work are:

1. Allowing users to rebind the radio keys. While not ideal, because the menu still has UX and UI issues, it allows people to put their commonly used keys somewhere more accessible. The game should handle these new keys as it currently does with the F keys, a duplicate bind should be allowed and used only to control the comms menu when it is open.

 

2. Overhaul the comms menu. Jester's radial menu springs to mind as an efficient, VR and user friendly approach. There are other design options of course but my design skills look like a child throwing buckets of paint at a wall.

 

While I appreciate there is software and hardware that exists, such as VoiceAttack, a mouse with side keys or a Function key pad, I'd emphasize that an additional purchase or download shouldn't be required to work around this. They'd get the job done, but it still leaves a design issue for VR users and adds an additional thing to configure and manage. 

 

I also appreciate this won't be at the top of the priority list. At the very least, having it added to the list would be a good starting point. The campaign menu has had some great improvements over the past several months, I believe this can too.

 

I solved it by creating a script with AutoHotkey.
That places the mouse cursor on the first radio item.
Then with up and down of the HAT of the radio moves on the next voices ... to be able to select them.

[sirrah]

20 minutes ago, fabio.dangelo said:

I solved it by creating a script with AutoHotkey.
That places the mouse cursor on the first radio item.
Then with up and down of the HAT of the radio moves on the next voices ... to be able to select them.

 

Interesting

And does that work in VR and/or TrackIR?

[fabio.dangelo]

36 minuti fa, sirrah ha scritto:

 

Interesting

And does that work in VR and/or TrackIR?

yes, one caveat.
it is necessary that in VR you use full screen mirroring with the same screen resolution