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New high end PC for DCS World 2.7+ for the next 10 years. It is scheduled for 2023, 2 years to go.


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Hi there,

 

I watched this video and makes me want to have this kind of graphics to fly heavy missions.

 

 

My last CPU change was in 2013 for a Intel Core i5 4670k, GTX 770 and 16GB DDR3 1600MHz, when DCS World required that.

 

I'm used to upgrade my CPU for each 10 years. In 2023, I'm thinking purchase a new high end PC. I know, 2 years to go.

 

I changed the GPU in 2018 to a GTX 1070, that it was recomended requirement. Yeah, I know, there's a little bottleneck, but it is ok in 1080p with max settings, with MSAA 2x and terrain shadows flat or off.

 

After the DCS World 2.7 update, my GPU was downgraded to minimum requirement and the current recomended requirement is GTX 1080 with 32GB RAM.

 

Thinking in the next 10 years, I'll purchase a high end PC.

 

I play only simulator kind of games like DCS World, Falcon BMS, Flight Simulator, X-Plane, Arma 3 and Assetto Corsa. I don't like too much casual games and multiplayer. Even streaming is not for me, considering maybe save my own videos as private on YouTube or Twitch.

 

My questions are:

 

Intel or AMD?

 

I saw a lot benchmarks comparing Core i9 11900k vs Ryzen 9 5950X and I think, beyond AMD be more expensive, have more cores and threads, the Intel won in most of scenaries.

 

For DCS World 2.7+ or DCS World 3.0 someday, with Vulkan API, dynamic campaign: will more cores and threads matter? Or a single core with max turbo frequency will be more important?

 

Will DCS World 2.7+ in the future need more thant 32GB?

 

I readed some news about DDR5 saying that the new memories will reach 128GB in a single memory card or 256GB dual channel with frequencies around the 4800MHz minimum and 8400MHz maximum.

 

With dynamic campaign, with thousands of objects populating the scene, will DCS World will require more than 32GB?

 

nVidia or AMD?

 

I saw some benchmarks comparing RTX 3080 Ti vs RX 6800 XT and they look very similar with a price difference. I did not saw comparations in DCS World 2.7.

 

What is better for DCS World? nVidia or AMD?

 

Best regards.


Edited by SilentSierra

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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Hi Silent Sierra,

I just upgraded my PC in a few steps and I hope I can answer your questions in a proper way, based on my experiences.

 

Intel or AMD?

I switched from a i7 4790K to a 5800X and did not see any difference in FPS when I had my GTX 1080 Ti. So based on my experience DCS is very much GPU dependent. So I strongly believe that both vendors will give you long term performance. Actually I would say Intel is over AMD. It´s hard to say what will be in two years. But honestly, I believe both will make you happy in DCS.

 

Will DCS World 2.7+ in the future need more thant 32GB?

This hghly depends on what you want to do. You mention that you are mor the single player. Here I would say 32 GB could be enough. Enough for 10 years? Hard to say but based on the experience of the last 10 years I doubt it will be enough. I just bought a PC with 64 GB and had over 40 GB utilized on a heavy Multi Player Server in Syria (4ya server). So I believe in 10 years we will see 64 GB as a standard, more heading into the direction of 128 GB. I bought two times 32 GB, so I could upgrade to 128 GB if I´m able to get the same RAM later on.

 

nVidia or AMD?

Will you stay at 1080p? Then it doesn´t matter. I just bought a RX 6800 XT and it runs good at 1440p. But I run 3x 1440p and here the RTX 3080 is better. How do I know? I sold the AMD card and bought a Nvidia card. In lower resolutions the difference is minor, in high resolutions like my 7680x1440 the Nvidia is much much better. I would say appr. 40% more speed in direct comparison. If you plan to change your reesolution, e.g. for VR, I would go for Nvidia. Even at my high resolution I don´t see any differenc between the AMD`s 16 GB VRAM vs. Nvidia`s 10 GB VRAM. I gave AMD a chance but will not do so that fast again.

 

Conclusion:

CPU doesn´t matter that much anymore, GPU go for Nvidia. Just my 2 cents.


Edited by xoxen
Mistake fixed

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I think the biggest thing about the graphics in the video is that it is running 4K @ 60FPS. You need to make sure your monitor and video card can handle that. 

Gigabyte 6800XT Master 16GB, AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra MB, 32GB Ram, Meta Quest 2 VR installed on Netac 2TB M.2 drive

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Currently member of VAF 136 (F/A-18C Squadron).

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Terrain Modules: Persian Gulf, Caucus, Nevada Test Training Range (NTTR), Syria, South Atlantic, Sinai and Normandy 2.0.

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Hi there,

 

@xoxen I'll consider what you said about CPU. A Core i7 or Ryzen 7 probably are good enough for DCS World, I can save some money.

 

@InzaneSK The video maker don't reply about the rig or settings. Probably he is running with 4k resolution using MSAA 4x, SSAA 2x, SSLR on, SSAO on, terrain shadows default and depth field simple. This is a heavy setup that I don't know if one RTX 3080 is good enough to handle that.

 

@Csgo GE oh yeah I have a lot other games, but I spend more time in simulators.

 

Best regards.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

I'm used to upgrade my CPU for each 10 years.

  Upgrading every generation is wasteful and unnecessary, but ten years is a bit the other extreme. Personally I recommend every 2nd generation or so (5-6 years approximately) for GPUs and circumstantially on CPUs (but ideally a similar cycle). This also helps retain at least some value in your old parts, allowing their sale to soak up at least part of the expense.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

I changed the GPU in 2018 to a GTX 1070, that it was recomended requirement. Yeah, I know, there's a little bottleneck, but it is ok in 1080p with max settings, with MSAA 2x and terrain shadows flat or off.

  Honestly, DCS does ok in 2d, it's VR where the requirements become crushing.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

I play only simulator kind of games like DCS World, Falcon BMS, Flight Simulator, X-Plane, Arma 3 and Assetto Corsa.

  Me, too for the most part. Unfortunately we like hands down the most demanding genre in all of gamerdom.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

Intel or AMD?

  A few years ago, when AMD was using the FX series processors, it was unarguably Intel by a very large margin, but the Ryzen processors are damn good and equal to (or in some contexts superior to) Intel. Imo, this choice is not very critical and you should get whichever you prefer/is the best deal at the time.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

Will DCS World 2.7+ in the future need more thant 32GB?

  In the short term, probably not, but RAM is sufficiently cheap these days there is no reason not to unless money is really tight. Future proofing to an extent is never a bad thing.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

I readed some news about DDR5

  Keep in mind there is ALWAYS something new due to come out, and that these new things usually have teething problems as well as cost a lot more. Being ''first in'' is rarely beneficial. I'd just shop based on what's available and be cautious about jumping into something new.

 

19 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

nVidia or AMD?

  AMD, as far as I see, still lags behind Nvidia in the GPU department, albeit not like in days past. I would say the scale is definitely weighted in Nvidia's favor, but these days availability and price is the major concern. Either will serve you well, get whichever you can get your hands on (assuming supply is still an issue when you begin your purchase).

  • Like 1

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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Hi @Mars Exulte

 

I'll consider purchase the AMD, if Intel didn't show any improvements, like this 11th generation thats worse than last one.

 

I changed my GPU every 5 years during last 20 years: GeForce 4, GeForce 8800 GTX, ATI HD 6870 (premature death), GeForce GTX 770 and now with GTX 1070.

 

I played 30 FPS for most of my life and I didn't saw any problem. After GTX 1070 with 1080p, max settings at 60FPS, I changed my point of view.

 

The brazilian currency is unvalued due for many reasons and the dollar price of the devices increased, so, a new rig for me costs a car these days.

 

For me, 10 years it isn't extreme for a motherboard, CPU and memory cards. I didn't saw much difference between last 7 generations of Intel, but I saw difference between nVidia generations. I'll need to upgrade all to avoid bottleneck.

 

I purchased not the top GPUs. With my house paid and furnished, with enough economies for emergencies and retirement, I think I can change my rig for a high end in 2023, when probably the supply chain of eletronics will calm down, I hope.

 

Best regards.


Edited by SilentSierra

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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Tbh, 2023 is FAR away in the computer universe. It is next to impossible to tell you now what to buy March 2023. 

 

All I can say, watch the market and technology arriving and make your picure of what's worth waiting for and what's worth spending extra cash on.

 

For sure you want a CPU with excellent IPC and also high clocks, at least 32GB of whatever RAM there is in 2 years and I would think 64GB rather than 32GB then.

 

GPU, well, most cannot spend 3k€ on a GPU so many have to settle with cards around 1k€, +/- what the budget says. Hard to say, 2023 will have Intel offering cards too,

 

that might stirr up the GPU market, I really hope so tbh.

 

I have been following the the prices for the past 6 months and planned various systems, compared, erased, started all over..it's a process. It wasn't easy and with 12th gen arriving I was

 

waiting for the prices of those. Now reading how much a 12900k and DDR5 will cost...No Thank You, I'll grab that Ryzen-9 + DDR4 and call it a day.

 

I have settled for an AMD and X570S, 64GB, 2 x 1TB 980Pro and a new Case. I will keep the DIY-Loop,  PSU, GPU and some of my SSD's, the rest stays in my 8700k on air.

 

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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22 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

Hi there,

 

I watched this video and makes me want to have this kind of graphics to fly heavy missions.

 

 

My last CPU change was in 2013 for a Intel Core i5 4670k, GTX 770 and 16GB DDR3 1600MHz, when DCS World required that.

 

I'm used to upgrade my CPU for each 10 years. In 2023, I'm thinking purchase a new high end PC. I know, 2 years to go.

 

I changed the GPU in 2018 to a GTX 1070, that it was recomended requirement. Yeah, I know, there's a little bottleneck, but it is ok in 1080p with max settings, with MSAA 2x and terrain shadows flat or off.

 

After the DCS World 2.7 update, my GPU was downgraded to minimum requirement and the current recomended requirement is GTX 1080 with 32GB RAM.

 

Thinking in the next 10 years, I'll purchase a high end PC.

 

I play only simulator kind of games like DCS World, Falcon BMS, Flight Simulator, X-Plane, Arma 3 and Assetto Corsa. I don't like too much casual games and multiplayer. Even streaming is not for me, considering maybe save my own videos as private on YouTube or Twitch.

 

My questions are:

 

Intel or AMD?

 

I saw a lot benchmarks comparing Core i9 11900k vs Ryzen 9 5950X and I think, beyond AMD be more expensive, have more cores and threads, the Intel won in most of scenaries.

 

For DCS World 2.7+ or DCS World 3.0 someday, with Vulkan API, dynamic campaign: will more cores and threads matter? Or a single core with max turbo frequency will be more important?

 

Will DCS World 2.7+ in the future need more thant 32GB?

 

I readed some news about DDR5 saying that the new memories will reach 128GB in a single memory card or 256GB dual channel with frequencies around the 4800MHz minimum and 8400MHz maximum.

 

With dynamic campaign, with thousands of objects populating the scene, will DCS World will require more than 32GB?

 

nVidia or AMD?

 

I saw some benchmarks comparing RTX 3080 Ti vs RX 6800 XT and they look very similar with a price difference. I did not saw comparations in DCS World 2.7.

 

What is better for DCS World? nVidia or AMD?

 

Best regards.

 

 

Brand have to be your choice.

 

Generally, solutions are different between one or the other although sometimes not by a large amount, but if you're looking for value for money (I'm not talking money saving), they will offer solutions traditionaly known from their users and the more you push for performances, the more specific they are as to which solution they offer.

 

For gaming I prefer AMD but it is a personal choice, a 5600X bounded with premium B.Die RAM and a strong GPU will be perfectly capable of providing you with high end graphics, only you won't spend the money in the same place than if you were to chose Intel for similar performances at the end.

 

I would advise that you use CPU and GPU from the same manufacturer to take full advantage of what they offer when they are pitted together.

 

For the RAM, there is no substitute for B.die RAM, you don't need more than 32GB but in every case, the lowest latency available will provide you with the most gain in performance for both Intel and AMD just in a different way.

 

AMD will make a better use of the low latency while Intel will beneficiate from O.C good quality premium RAM, in my case I gained more than twice using this RAM kit the average gain one can expect by O.Cing an AMD CPU with a liquid cooler, so the money spent is <> the same, only I don't lose the CPU waranty.

 

I don't have the data for the gain obtained by O.Cing those B.Die kits for Intel but they definitively use the same RAM for this purpose.

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/gaming/resources/overclock-ram.html

 

Before commiting I would do some serious research, especially when it comes to compatibility between Motherboarsd chipset and BIOS updates, RAM and CPU, and when you purchase the RAM, make sure you buy a full kit at once and not two  of the same kit, manucafturers can use diffferent chips even within the same batch and this can cause boot failures and blue screens.

 

 


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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From my experience in MP with lot of units 32Gb is ok for now with almost all on max setting. I have 32Gb of RAM and in some MP session like in Syria I've seen it ate almost 30GB so you cant go wrong for 64gb.

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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23 minutes ago, Oceandar said:

From my experience in MP with lot of units 32Gb is ok for now with almost all on max setting. I have 32Gb of RAM and in some MP session like in Syria I've seen it ate almost 30GB so you cant go wrong for 64gb.

 

It can go that high but if you separate paging files from your gaming (different disk), size them accordingly, disable all background apps you don't need and more to it, optimize your RAM-to-CPU bound you'll find it to be a lot less of an issue.

 

What I mean by optimizing RAM is using B.Die low latency RAM and it comes with a premium, feel free to splash twice the money on 64GB B.Die Cl14 kit but in reality you don't need it if your RAM processes the same amount of data a lot faster and your CPU doesn't throttle down under load because there is a RAM bottleneck due to higher latency.

 

When this occurs, the RAM-to-CPU bus works slower, same for CPU-to-GPU bus although by a smaller amount, in short, the whole system slows down when playing demanding scenarios due to CPU controller limits and inability to cope with the demand put on it by the RAM and the game.

 

Factors that plays in this bottleneck:

 

Latency. Frequency above those recommanded by the manufacturer. CPU controller limits. Number of ranks per stick (max is 4 sticks in total).

 

With Cl14 B.die RAM, one can obtain much tighter timings and go around the controller limits and since they are 1 rank and designed for being O.Ced, both AMD (latency) and Intel (RAM O.C) can beneficiate of them.

 

People think that Cl16 RAM works just as well than Cl14 but it is completely wrong, in reality there is a bottleneck without premium RAM and the difference can be (in the case of AMD, tested with my 5600X) as much as 6.04% at 4K in CPU speed, just as hard a test as this DCS scenario, which implies that your RAM is no longer struggling to process the amount of data and your CPU doesn't limit it.

GSKILL.jpg

 

Using 64GB of Cl16 RAM won't solve the issue of RAM speed or CPU throttling down under load...


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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45 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

Tbh, 2023 is FAR away in the computer universe. It is next to impossible to tell you now what to buy March 2023.

 

2021 ends in 3 months.

 

2022 we'll see new generation of CPU, GPU and probably the DDR5 memory cards. I expect to see Vulkan API and dynamic campaign implemented in DCS World. The prices will be too high becauses of pandemic.

 

2023 I expect the supply chain will calm down to upgrade my PC, even with 2022's hardwares, black friday and sales.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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@Thinder Understood. Thanks for the advice.

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CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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Olá SilentSierra 🙂

 

2023 is a long, long way to go!
In my honest opinion, if it's possible to do it a.s.a.p., then I'd rather go for it sooner, rather than later.

 

Yes, there will be plenty new hardware coming out until 2023.

But there will always be something new coming out... (the neverending story) ...which may cost more and more when looking at the total system final cost.

 

What some of the replies that you see here won't take in context is that you live in Brasil, which makes your case kinda particular in the way that prices with taxes work for PC hardware there.
Prices for PC hardware are usually very, very high in Brasil when compared to most European, North America, Asia and Oceania prices, which is agravated (and even more unbalanced) by the average national wage in the country (similar problem here in Portugal). 

 

The thing that you need to decide first is your total budget.

Some do it on financing and credit, others pay it all at once. See what can be done in either scenarios and what fits you best.

 

You mention that you're playing in 1080P 60fps, and want to play in 4K 60fps.

This means a new screen will also be required, and you must add that extra cost into your DCS gaming system. 
Plenty 4K gaming monitors to choose, decide what size you prefer, and start looking around for those.
Some 4K TVs are also excelent alternatives, more so if you want a very large screen (43'' or even bigger).

 

I suppose that you're already aware that your new system for DCS will also require a new Power Supply Unit (better if 850W+) of good quality, probably a new well ventilated tower case, and you may also want do add new/more storage (NVMe or Sata SSD).

Factor in all that for your budget.

 

No matter when you're going to do this, the one thing you'll clearly realize is that, while DCS is very unoptimized and requires brute-force of hardware, at a certain point of (good) performance, you pay a LOT(!) more but get very little in return for DCS.

So, beware of exaggerated specs, which may cost you very dearly, just to get small benefits in DCS (avoid the trickster).

 


Intel or AMD?

 

Both Intel and AMD have excelent choices, can't go wrong with either.
You don't really need the "best of the best" CPU for DCS, be it in 4K or whatever other resolution. What you do need is a good processor, medium to high range segment.

And, for these, you don't need overpriced and overkill motherboards. You just need one with great quality VRMs and balanced features for a gaming rig.

 

Just a couple of examples of Intel and AMD processor+motherboard combos:

  • Intel i5 11600K (US $260.00) or Intel i7 11700K (US $390.00)
    +
    MSI Z590 A-PRO motherboard (US $160.00)
     
  • AMD Ryzen 5 5600X (US $300.00) or AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (US $410.00)
    +
    ASUS Prime X570-P motherboard (US $180.00).


You'll also need to consider, in your budget, a good CPU cooler for any of these.

Intel "K" processors don't have any cooler included in the box, and the ones that come with AMD Ryzen 5000 are far too weak for intensive gaming.

 

With that said, wait for Intel 12th gen Alder Lake (coming soon, more or less a month), at least to see if it's worth it or not.

Also, some of the new Z690 motherboards for Alder Lake are supposed to work with current DDR4 RAM sticks (far less expensive than the upcoming DDR5 RAM sticks).

I guess we'll see then how that goes.

 


Will DCS World 2.7+ in the future need more than 32GB?


For RAM (memory), this will highly depend on what you want to do.
For regular single-player missions 32 GB is still enough (but with upcoming updates noone knows).

But for multi-player it's a different story, it's more hardware demanding. Here, complex missions with various users online, you'll often see RAM consumption at 30GB and over.

 

Now, that's today.

Imagine how it'll be in two years time, and I think you start to understand why everybody really into DCS (and multi-player) are now getting 64GB for a new system.

 

In regards to RAM choice, you'll see different schools of thought.
After building dozens, if not hundreds, of gaming systems through these years for friends and customers, and in my honest opinion....

It's better to get "Good" 64GB RAM, instead of the "Best" 32GB RAM.
The "Good", being 95% performance and 50% price when comparing it to the "Best", makes the choice a no-brainer (again, avoid the trickster).

 

 

nVidia or AMD?
 

For the GPU (graphics-card) to use with DCS, definitely go with Nvidia. 
It's not like AMD GPUs are not good, it's just that DCS works much, much better with Nvidia.

 

In my opinion, look for an Nvidia RTX 3070 or better.
Yes, in an ideal world we'd all use Nvidia RTX 3080 or RTX 3080Ti, but just search how much those cost now..... (up to you, if you can get one, then get it)

 

The GPU is what will make the most difference for DCS in 4K, absolutely no doubt. Needs to be as best as possible. 

And, for sure, with the current market being as bad as it is due to crytomining and scalping, the GPU will be the biggest obstacle in your new DCS PC building odissey.

 

 

Abraço e saúde desde Portugal! 

 


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DCS terrain modules_July23_27pc_ns.pngDCS aircraft modules_July23_27pc_ns.png  aka Luke Marqs; call sign "Ducko" =

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Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (@5.1/5.0p + 3.9e) | 64GB DDR4 @3466 CL16 (Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify C | M-Audio USB + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 

 

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3 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

@Thinder Understood. Thanks for the advice.

 

This is taking into account the upcoming new generation of sockets and chipsets for both manufacturers, for such future a system, you will have to pay a premium anyway before prices goes down and we still don't know which RAM will offer the best performances for them, this needs to be tested (most of the time by gamers) and will take time.

 

For the present generation of RAM, there is no need for 32GB if you optimize your system for gaming, and a good 64Gb Cl16 RAM kit is gonna cost you nearly as much as a B.Die Cl14 kit of 32GB capacity, it's a no brainer, no need for double the capacity and you remove the RAM bottleneck coming with a Cl16 kit.

 

This is the real issue, of course you could fit up to 128GB of RAM in a system today but the whole point here is for the RAM to be able to recycle the amount of data that comes through it, not the capacity and it is obvious that Cl16 doesn't cut it regardless of the capacity you'll use, so for a few years, using premium RAM makes a lot more sense.

 

DCS is one of the most demanding games out there, not only for RAM but also for CPU and this is the reason why I chose this kit, not only it does cope better with higher amount of data than my previous kit but also without the botlleneck it allows the CPU controller to work at its optimum capacity which is what you want for gaming under load.

 

There are more ways to save money and gain performances than using RAM that doesn't work well when it really matters for gamers, for example:

 

The MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX is excellent and you can find them below £70.

 

I use a 500GB SAMSUNG EVO Plus SSD where I installed my games and set my paging files, at Read/Write 3.500 MB/s, 3.200 MB/s, it is 10 X faster than a SATA and contribute to minimize RAM use issue since the paging files are not on the C drive and it is way faster.

 

The Artic Coller 7X can be purchased below £16 and during the tests I ran, temperature never went above 76.6 °C, shopping around you will always find good deals but it is up to you to do your home work and know what you really need.

 

Before commiting to this RAM kit I have made dozen of enquiries, contacted MSI, AMD and G.Skill to try to understand which RAM to chose, since I was half-satisfied with the Crucial Cl16 kit I had at the time, I got the advise to use this kit by an AMD gamer in the MSI forum, and after more researches I figured Intel advanced gamers also use this kit or other B.die kits.

 

Here is one of the replies I got by email: uktechsupport@msi.com

ranks.jpg

As you can see they are clear in their explaination, the 5000 series controller limits it to 4 ranks and 3200MHz, passed that you wont be able to see max performances from your PC when the game get hard on RAM use without B.Die Cl14 RAM, for Intel only recently have some chipsets made it passed 266MHz, you'll need to check on this too.

 

Intel technicians used  a Socket 1151LGA ASUSTek ROG MAXIMUS XT APEX and Intel I9-9900K CPU in their RAM O.C tutorial and the G.Skill Trident Z RGB allows them to go around their CPU DDR4-2666 limit, so even there you can get performances for the money, there should be much cheaper motherboard and you have a range of CPUs for this socket to pick.

https://www.cpu-list.com/lga1151-v2-cpu-list/.

 

 


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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Hi @LucShep, thanks for the advice. I'm considering the Brazil's costs.

 

Here in Brazil is very expensive build a high end PC. It costs minimum of 15 to 25 minimum wages. I'm a software engineer, I make 5 minimum wages per mounth.

 

In the USA, with two minimum wages you purchase a RTX 3090 system.

 

I'm finishing to construct my house and I have a lot of expenses until next year.

 

I'll have complete budget in begining of 2023. Until there, I think ED will implement the Vulkan API. In the X-Plane 11 makes a huge difference in FPS for VR users.

 

For the next 10 years, I think a Ryzen 5 or 7 will handle that.

 

GPU, I generally gets the 70's family of nVidia, like GTX 770, GTX 1070, in 2022, the target will be the RTX 4070.

 

I'm reconsidering play 4K resolution, because of flight sims are bad optimized. More resolution, less FPS.

 

Best regards.


Edited by SilentSierra
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CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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8 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

Hi @LucShep, thanks for the advice. I'm considering the Brazil's costs.

 

Here in Brazil is very expensive build a high end PC. It costs minimum of 15 to 25 minimum wages. I'm a software engineer, I make 5 minimum wages a mounth.

 

In the USA, with two minimum wages you purchase a RTX 3090 system.

 

I'm finishing to construct my house and I have a lot of expenses until next year.

 

I'll have complete budget in begining of 2023. Until there, I think ED will implement the Vulkan API. In the X-Plane 11 makes a huge difference in FPS for VR users.

 

For the next 10 years, I think a Ryzen 5 or 7 will handle that.

 

GPU, I generally gets the 70's family of nVidia, like GTX 770, GTX 1070, in 2022, the target will be the RTX 4070.

 

I'm reconsidering play 4K resolution, because of flight sims are bad optimized. More resolution, less FPS.

 

Best regards.

 

I think you summed up pretty well one of the reason people have been building Ryzen systems for gaming since the Ryzen 2.

 

I am in the UK with less revenue than a month salary, it took me month to build my P.C part by part, after a GPU failure, my old case dates from the Pentium III which was the first P.C I built in 2010, it doesn't mean that I am ready to cut corners and buy a RAM kit that will restrict the capacity of my CPU to work under load in a way we need it to for gaming.

 

The only difference between you and I is that I was able to sell all part (bar motherboard and power supply) to Computer Exchange and buy a good GTX 1080 Ti second hand with a two years warranty from them, which helped me cut costs, they sell them today for £530.00.

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?id=sgranvi1080tigtx11gb&categoryName=graphics-cards-pci-e&superCatName=computing&title=nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-11gb-gddr5x&referredFrom=boxsearch

 

I used this buy/resell method for the Crucial RAM, the Ryzen 3600X and the Radeon RX 5500 XT MECH 8G OC.

 

It might be possible for you to get one from them and/or other devices, I don't know, but it is worth asking them, they always answer enquieries and are very good with their customers or perhaps you have a relative in the UK who could buy it for you and post it to you in Brazil. CEX

 

My tip: Get a MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX, with updated BIOS it will easily handle a 5600X and take one SSD which you also can find second hand at CEX.

 

My system is mid-range but can handle 4K simply because I did optimize what needs to be optimized, starting with the O.S, storage and RAM, all of which you can find at CEX including Windows 10 Pro, without this I'd be limited to lower resolutions which my old Cl16 RAM couldn't handle in 3D Mark 4K tests without causing crashes.

 

 


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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Thanks @Thinder.

 

I don't know that much about memory for gaming performance. I'm used to run with default settings. I don't overclock my CPU, GPU or RAM.

 

In Brazil, we have a website called "Mercado Livre", translated as "Free Market", it is like CEX, you can find all kind of stuff new or second hand. But they don't buy your stuff, you put for sale as used and you have 3 months warranty.

 

I also need a motherboard that have enough USB to plugin all devices: keyboard, mouse, headset, HOTAS, rudder pedal, TrackIR, steering wheel, Xbox controller, etc. and supports 128GB RAM for future upgrades, if needed.

 

I have 3 SSDs SATA III: 240GB, 480GB and 1TB. I'm think to sell all and get a single M.2 Nvme 2TB with max frequency I can get compatible with the motherboard.

 

I also consider a kit of 64GB (2x 32GB) DDR4 3200MHz compatible with AMD, best CL I can get, I don't know if I can find some.

 

If I use 4K resolution, I probably will use a TV with 60Hz. The monitors are too expensive, but I don't know, I'll see what I can get or I can stay with my 43" TV Full HD.

 

The GPU, the best cost benefit are RTX 3070/4070. But if I can purchase a RTX 3080/4080 ti, I'll think about.

 

Best regards.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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Have a look at the MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX specs, there are enough USB for all of this, I have a controller with throttle and stick which are using the same USB without any problem using this. https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX/Specification

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JX1ZS5O/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_pd_te_s_bx_ti?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00JX1ZS5O&pd_rd_r=AAKSZB6PYVPQT9D39YEM&pd_rd_w=5zM1Z&pd_rd_wg=qoC4C

 

The whole point is, you don't need 64GB of RAM but you need your 5600X to work to its full potential, and the B.die RAM kits let you do just that, which a Cl16 kit won't, even a 64GB.

 

Then cooling is not an issue with the  5600X which runs cooler than most, the Artic Freezer 7X can keep it well cool under the hardets of tests, it's one of those quality parts which come cheap, rare enough to be noticed. https://www.arctic.de/en/Freezer-7-X/ACFRE00077A

 

My EVGA GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti is now the bottleneck, but the whole system can run at 4K, not like a high end system or with the same settings and my system would be way faster with an RX 6800 XT but for the moment it is out of my budget and it didn't cost me as much as one of the new mid range still with a 24 month warranty, it's a very good card.

 

But I reiterate my advise, if you can avoid cutting corners with the RAM just do it, O.Cing your CPU with water cooling wouldn't give you half the gain in CPU speed and without B.Die Cl14, it will throttle down under load which is precisely where you're aiming with DCS which is one of the most demanding games there is.

 

This RAM kit will allow you to avoid this bottleneck and you will gain more CPU speed than O.Cing your Ryzen, in fact, chances are that a Ryzen 7 5800X bounded with a Cl16 RAM kit won't be faster under load than my combination simply because it will throttle down while mine keep coping with the load.

 

People don't realize that but this is what real gaming P.C building is all about, spending the money where it really matters, if it was for doing spreadshits, i'd say by no mean, yes go for a Crucial Cl16 kit but it is gaming and heavy CPU and RAM load we're talking about, not the same thing and calling a Cl16 RAM "gaming" doesn't change that.

 

 


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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CL14 memory cards are out of stock or in lower capacity (8GB) here in Brazil. I'll wait for resupply, but my schedule is for end 2022, beginning of 2023.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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CL16 is the best I can get here for now. Or G.skill 8GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D MOBO: Asus ROG STRIX B650E-E MEM: Kingston FURY Renegade 64GB DDR5 5200MHz SSD: Kingstone Fury Renegade NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD 4TB GPU: ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 4090 OC CASE: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh WATER COOLER: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion HT: TrackIR 5 VR: HP Reverb G2 V2 HOTAS: TM HOTAS Warthog RUDDER: TPR Rudder Pedals GRIP: TM F/A-18C GRIP WHEELS: Logitech G27 OS: Win 11 Pro SIMS: DCS World, Falcon BMS, IL-2 Sturmovik, MSFS2020, Arma 3, Assetto Corsa.

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5 minutes ago, SilentSierra said:

CL16 is the best I can get here for now. Or G.skill 8GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14.

 

I ordered mine from Newegg in the USA, stocks comes and go, what you need to do is keep looking, eventually you'll find one source at a reasonable price.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232488?Item=N82E16820232488

 

But because it is high in demand those kits are generally hard to come by, I do the same for my future GPU although I don't have the budget yet, but prices are still way too high.

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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I may repeat myself but the "GVK" RipJaw-V version of the module uses the same B-die, it just skips the LED and thus cuts cost by 60€, maybe more in Brazil.

 

BTW, Those GVK-RipJaw-V's kit are listed many times in mprime world best list. If they were any lesser than the LED version I am sure those Hardcore Overclockers would use the LED variant of that module.

 

Anyway, I second the CL14-3200 approach, B-die..yes yes yes. I am just not sure if someone needs the LED gimmick when all it mostly does is causing software trouble with the LED Software ( Board+Tower+GPU+RAM..all LED...what a mess to get that all under one umbrella. )

 

If my budget allow I may get the LED version to match the nice new Case but if the budget says NO, it is no lesser kit just no shiny LED.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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2 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

I am just not sure if someone needs the LED gimmick when all it mostly does is causing software trouble with the LED Software ( Board+Tower+GPU+RAM..all LED...what a mess to get that all under one umbrella. )

 

If my budget allow I may get the LED version to match the nice new Case but if the budget says NO, it is no lesser kit just no shiny LED.

 

Awww come on! ...eveybody knows the christmas tree lights of RGB LED gives you more FPS! 😜

CGTC Caucasus retexture mod  |  A-10A cockpit retexture mod  |  Shadows reduced impact mod  |  DCS 2.5.6  (the best version for performance, VR or 2D)

DCS terrain modules_July23_27pc_ns.pngDCS aircraft modules_July23_27pc_ns.png  aka Luke Marqs; call sign "Ducko" =

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (@5.1/5.0p + 3.9e) | 64GB DDR4 @3466 CL16 (Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify C | M-Audio USB + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 

 

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To make use of my boards LEDs & GPU LEDs ( EK block with RGB ) I need a ton of Asus software and in addition Corsair iCue to combine them all and have the LED color correspond to each hardware's temperature ( green --> yellow--> red ). That is somewhat usefull as I can tell by the colour of the LEDs how warm/hot the system is. 

 

Unfortunately, no other vendor has that temp feature and allows you to assign them independently. I dont need to show the CPU temp with the GPU or vice versa.

 

It's a mess and more often than not it caused trouble over the years. The combo with iCue is somewhat stable for months now but I really dislike most LED software I have ever come across.

 

Yes. I agree, LEDs boost your overall perception of FPS 😉    That's why I keep the door open to the LED Gskill kit. Just want to point out, there is a kit with same performance for less.

Actually, all of those GTZR's have a GVK counterpart with exact same Latencies and Volts, from 3200 till 4800 MHz range..

 

Once my payment arrives I will order the last parts missing and start building it. I am really eager to see the difference between 3600-16 and 3200-14 and if I can stress it so much that 3600 falls significantly behind 3200, as to what Thinder says. I don't question it but I wanna see it myself.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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