correct as is IFF not response with SCS depress

[Hulkbust44]

Sorry to ask but I have been away for a long time. Did this always work like this? I'm under the impression that I only had to press the SCS button to interrogate before.

That's the way it was. IRL SCS depress is a modifier for the SCS, does some additional functions too.

Mobius708

[hein22]

51 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

That's the way it was. IRL SCS depress is a modifier for the SCS, does some additional functions too.

Mobius708
 

And IRL is it done by keeping it pressed or just doing the next action quickly after releasing it?

[Tholozor]

IRL it's depress and bump, but since the hardware limitations for most consumer-grade HOTAS don't support that kind of action, we have it implemented as depress then bump.

See below.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Tholozor

[Swift.]

16 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

IRL it's depress and bump, but since the hardware limitations for most consumer-grade HOTAS don't support that kind of action, we have it implemented as depress then bump

Not sure about that one, the real manual is very specific eg:
'Depress/Release then forward (within 1 second)'

[Jak525]

What swift said.

[Tholozor]

Gotcha, thanks guys, I'll have to re-read the Principles manual.

[rob10]

13 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

1. Does the "T" in "TUC" refer to any contact or a locked (L&S) target?

TUC = target UNDER cursor -- remember that and you'll remember it's anything that the cursor is currently over top of on the display

Edited November 13, 2021 by rob10

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

9 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

So with IFF in the sense we are talking, mode 4, its either a friendly response or no response at all.

What this means is that an interrogation, by Castle depress and Castle right, can only ever make a track Friendly or leave it as unknown. Marking a track as hostile will require another ID source.

Sorry, just to clarify, the test mission had AWACS and friendlies too.

Friendly or Unknown - I see that now with the chart from Tholozor which was helpful. But my issue is that with RWS/LTWS on, the same contact in SA (the TUC in RWS) would update to a thick staple (ambiguous) as opposed to remaining as the default thin staple when SCS IFF is commanded in the RWS page with LTWS off. But perhaps as Harker has explained, it's just the way it is currently implemented.
 

Edited November 13, 2021 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Jak525]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:26 PM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

Sorry, just to clarify, the test mission had AWACS and friendlies too.

Friendly or Unknown - I see that now with the chart from Tholozor which was helpful. But my issue is that with RWS/LTWS on, the same contact in SA (the TUC in RWS) would update to a thick staple (ambiguous) as opposed to remaining as the default thin staple when SCS IFF is commanded in the RWS page with LTWS off. But perhaps as Harker has explained, it's just the way it is currently implemented.
 

 

It's just the way it's implemented now. Toggling LTWS should merely change the ATTK page cursor-over logic (on=show hidden HAFUs,  off=only show the raw brick's altitude). The LTWS option does not actually disable the "LTWS" concept where the radar is building TWS tracks in RWS mode.

 

IFF interrogations, and the interrogations' contribution to MSI, shouldn't be impacted by the state of the LTWS option.

 

Id also note the auto-IFF on TUC was removed, at least I thought it was. Don't believe that's realistic. You only get the AUTO INT/AUTO L&S configurations, plus the ability to manually interrogate.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Jak525

[Minsky]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:03 AM, Tholozor said:

Manual IFF interrogation will interrogate the TUC (target-under-cursor) when commanded in any radar mode with visible trackfiles (RWS+LTWS, TWS). The automatic IFF (when enabled on the AZ/EL page) will interrogate the IFF antenna scan volume or L&S trackfile every 10 seconds. IFF antenna scan azimuth can be seen on the AZ/EL page for either automatic or manual interrogations (shown as vertical green bars).

Sorry, but what do you mean by "IFF interrogation": is it just the transponder, or transponder + NCTR?

If it's just the transponder, then how can you manually "interrogate" with it? I thought it works automatically, as long as UFC IFF and AZ/EL AUTO are on.

If it's transponder + NCTR, then what is CIT?

Just trying to wrap my head around all this...

Edited November 27, 2021 by Minsky

[Harker]

10 minutes ago, Minsky said:

Sorry, but what do you mean by "IFF interrogation": is it just the transponder, or transponder + NCTR?

If it's just the transponder, then how can you manually "interrogate" with it? I thought it works automatically, as long as UFC IFF and AZ/EL AUTO are on.

If it's transponder + NCTR, then what is CIT?

Just trying to wrap my head around all this...

 

CIT = Combined Interrogator Transponder. Your IFF system.

IFF interrogation is simply the interrogator part, not NCTR. You can control the behavior of the Interrogator in AZ/EL page. By default, it'll periodically interrogate the L&S. You can also set it to periodically interrogate the airspace in front of you. But you can also manually command it to interrogate (maybe you have AUTO disabled in order not to alert or annoy other flights - since IRL, aircraft equipped with the appropriate equipment know when they're being interrogated), by hovering your TDC over a trackfile and the depressing the SCS before quickly bumping it right.

Don't confuse IFF and ROE. IFF can only tell you if the target is friendly, not if it's hostile. NCTR is not connected with the CIT or IFF in general, it's connected with the ROE matrix. You need two separate sources for the ROE matrix to declare a target as hostile. A negative IFF reply can be one source, NCTR or off-board data can be used as a second source.

[Minsky]

15 minutes ago, Harker said:

But you can also manually command it to interrogate (maybe you have AUTO disabled in order not to alert or annoy other flights - since IRL, aircraft equipped with the appropriate equipment know when they're being interrogated), by hovering your TDC over a trackfile and the depressing the SCS before quickly bumping it right.

Ah, this is my mistake: I thought it only commands NCTR -- not NCTR and IFF.

But this way you can't perform manual IFF interrogation without locking your target in STT, right?

What's the advantage of doing this, instead of simply disabling AUTO, enabling L+S INT, and designating L&S?
I can only think of one drawback: it may also interrogate other aircraft in the vicinity of your L&S.
 

Quote

IRL, aircraft equipped with the appropriate equipment know when they're being interrogated

You mean that DIS/AUD switch on the IFF panel is just a dummy? I haven't had a chance to test it.

[Harker]

16 minutes ago, Minsky said:

Ah, this is my mistake: I thought it only commands NCTR -- not NCTR and IFF.

But this way you can't perform manual IFF interrogation without locking your target in STT, right?

What's the advantage of doing this, instead of simply disabling AUTO, enabling L+S INT, and designating L&S?
I can only think of one drawback: it may also interrogate other aircraft in the vicinity of your L&S.

I may have been unclear. NCTR has nothing to do with the CIT. It's purely a function of the radar and it indeed requires STT. Let's completely leave NCTR out of the conversation - it is involved in the ROE matrix that will classify threats as Friendly, Hostile, etc, but NCTR itself is a very different thing than IFF.

IFF is simply a system of question and reply.

We're talking about manual IFF interrogations, those are done by first depressing the SCS and then quickly bumping it right, when your TDC is over a trackfile.

As for whether or not you want to manually IFF stuff instead of using AUTO or L+S IFF, that's up to you. IRL, you can tip other aircraft off that they're being interrogated. And you might not want to automatically interrogate your L&S until you're ready to fire - maybe you are radar silent and your L&S is a donated or FLIR-only MSI trackfile (this can be done IRL, not currently possible in DCS), so you want to delay interrogating it.

23 minutes ago, Minsky said:

 

You mean that DIS/AUD switch on the IFF panel is just a dummy? I haven't had a chance to test it.

 

I'm pretty sure it does nothing in DCS and unless I'm mistaken, none of our modules react to an IFF interrogation.

[Tholozor]

51 minutes ago, Minsky said:

You mean that DIS/AUD switch on the IFF panel is just a dummy? I haven't had a chance to test it.

That switch (Mode 4 Switch) controls the audible 'Mode 4 Reply' warning from Betty, along with the 'M4 OK' advisory and 'IFF 4' caution. Neither are implemented.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Tholozor

[Minsky]

56 minutes ago, Harker said:

We're talking about manual IFF interrogations, those are done by first depressing the SCS and then quickly bumping it right, when your TDC is over a trackfile.

No, you've been perfectly clear!

It's just that this combo is difficult with my HOTAS. I must have triggered the STT instead of interrogation the first time I pressed it, then got lucky on my second attempt (while still in STT), and assumed it only works in STT.

Just tried it again, now more carefully, and it worked just like you described.

I guess I have no other questions  Thank you for the prompt and detailed explanation!

Edited November 27, 2021 by Minsky