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i motion when the IIAF tomcat that we can take the glove pylons off

evanf117

By evanf117
in DCS: F-14A & B

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WolfHound009

WolfHound009

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Yes, the IRIAF cat is supposed to have no TCS and fuel tank pylons. However, this particular bird seems to have a TCS or early IRST?

Ya early IRST, I read that Grumman tried to sell the Iranians the ALR-23 IRST but it was lowkey kinda trash so they decided to not buy it.


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DSplayer

DSplayer

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Not exactly 100% related to the topic but what does "i motion" or "im motion" mean in the title of the post?

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evanf117

evanf117

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7 hours ago, DSplayer said:

Not exactly 100% related to the topic but what does "i motion" or "im motion" mean in the title of the post?

i motion its a fancier way of saying i sagest  or im going to push for 

12 hours ago, Spurts said:

That would turn a 4xAIM-7 loadout into one fast interceptor

oh, that sounds like a fun mission doing mach 1.4-6 intercepts

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eatthis

eatthis

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On 10/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, TLTeo said:

Iirc the default loadout for a lot of the Iran-Iraq war was 4 Phoenixes, full gun, no other missiles, and plenty of optimism, so this would be a great option.

 

given the probably kills scored then id say it wasnt optimistic but realistic

 

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Cab

Cab

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On 10/13/2021 at 5:21 PM, TLTeo said:

Iirc the default loadout for a lot of the Iran-Iraq war was 4 Phoenixes, full gun, no other missiles, and plenty of optimism, so this would be a great option.

 

No Sidewinders? Do you know why?

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TLTeo

TLTeo

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Afaik the IRIAF didn't have the USN AIM-9G/H (let alone the L/M), only the AIM-9P, and they also only had AIM-7E, rather than the AIM-7F. What US missiles they had (mostly from their Phantom/F-5 orders) were not immediately compatible with the Tomcat.

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Katj

Katj

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No Sidewinders? Do you know why?
I've read that they didn't take delivery of sparrows or sidewinder before the revolution and thus the Phoenix was all they had. The story goes the missiles from their F-4s weren't compatible.

That doesn't agree with this list of Iranian air victories, however.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

Lots of sidewinder and sparrow kills.

Anyway I would rather have been in an Iranian Tomcat than any Iraqi bird during that particular conflict.
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TLTeo

TLTeo

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8 minutes ago, Katj said:

Lots of sidewinder and sparrow kills.

But they are -E model Sparrows and -P model Sidewinders, so the story about the IRIAF not having compatible missiles is true. The question is whether the integration (which definitely happened eventually) of those missiles happened before or after the war started.

It could also be that due to lack of parts/missiles, they only carried the Phoenix during defensive counter air type missions, and the Sidewinder/Sparrow during offensive operations.

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MBot

MBot

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14 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

It could also be that due to lack of parts/missiles, they only carried the Phoenix during defensive counter air type missions, and the Sidewinder/Sparrow during offensive operations.

That is actually the first time I have ever heard about the Phoenix only loadout. From what I have read so far, the standard loadouts were: 2x AIM-54A, 2x AIM-7E, 2x AIM-9P for the leader and 6x AIM-7E, 2x AIM-9P for the wingman. Phoenix stocks were limited so missiles were reserved for "important" shots. Sidewinders and Sparrows were part of the IIAF Tomcat's arsenal from the very beginning.

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Katj

Katj

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But they are -E model Sparrows and -P model Sidewinders, so the story about the IRIAF not having compatible missiles is true. The question is whether the integration (which definitely happened eventually) of those missiles happened before or after the war started.
It could also be that due to lack of parts/missiles, they only carried the Phoenix during defensive counter air type missions, and the Sidewinder/Sparrow during offensive operations.
The first sidewinder kill is listed on September 10 1980, which is at the very beginning of the conflict, or even slightly before.

"No compatible missiles" may still have been true for some units or something like that. Or maybe they just didn't have full functionality. Enough to kill, though, it would seem.
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Katj

Katj

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Yeah seems likely I'm misremembering the compatibility thing. I'm still 69% sure the 4x Phoenix loadout was a thing in some situations though.
I mean, for all we know they may have had to fire them in boresight mode. That they used them successfully doesn't exclude compatability issues.
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Harlikwin

Harlikwin

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/13/2021 at 4:21 PM, TLTeo said:

Iirc the default loadout for a lot of the Iran-Iraq war was 4 Phoenixes, full gun, no other missiles, and plenty of optimism, so this would be a great option.

 

LOL no...

Typical load was 1 ship with 2 Phx, aim7/9, once in a while with 4. Wingman would be all Aim7/9.

Also for the "middle" of the war they didn't even load Phx since they were mostly out. 

 

2 hours ago, Katj said:

I've read that they didn't take delivery of sparrows or sidewinder before the revolution and thus the Phoenix was all they had. The story goes the missiles from their F-4s weren't compatible.

That doesn't agree with this list of Iranian air victories, however.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

Lots of sidewinder and sparrow kills.

Anyway I would rather have been in an Iranian Tomcat than any Iraqi bird during that particular conflict.

 

They operated F4's and F5's long before they got F14's. Guess what missiles those used?


Edited by Harlikwin

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lunaticfringe

lunaticfringe

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1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

They operated F4's and F5's long before they got F14's. Guess what missiles those used?

Guess what cooling those Sidewinders used by default.  And the E-2 Sparrow isn't compatible with the AWG-9 out of the box. 

Over time, the ability to get replacement hardware through clandestine means made some of these stocks viable. It wasn't anywhere remotely turnkey.


Edited by lunaticfringe
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evanf117

evanf117

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On 10/20/2021 at 11:57 PM, Cab said:

No Sidewinders? Do you know why?

others have already answered, but ill add an image, from once Iran made the 9P work with the tomcatEUWsJVyWAAAOujJ.jpg
 also there is some talk of when Russia helped mount R-27 on the F-14 they also helped mount either R-60, R-60M or R-73, but ive never seen an image or any proper conformation
U7jd1.jpeg
EGjufCKX4AAvZT6?format=jpg&name=medium

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SkateZilla

SkateZilla

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/13/2021 at 1:45 AM, evanf117 said:

like in this image 
The first Iranian F-14A Tomcat BuNo. 160299 on a test ...
clean cat

This is a Demonstrator Airframe, flown over the U.S. to demonstrate the TCS as an options etc.

TCS was removed before it was delivered, as IIAF Declined that option.

The only reason it's 100% Clean is they were also demonstrating speed, etc.

Tail # 3863 is the only Tomcat w/ TCS and IIAF Markings


Edited by SkateZilla
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evanf117

evanf117

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1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

This is a Demonstrator Airframe, flown over the U.S. to demonstrate the TCS as an options etc.

TCS was removed before it was delivered, as IIAF Declined that option.

The only reason it's 100% Clean is they were also demonstrating speed, etc.

Tail # 3863 is the only Tomcat w/ TCS and IIAF Markings

 

i thought it was IRST not TCS, but, good info to know,

also even if it was just a demonstrator, id like to be able to remove all the pylons just for the memes, the speed, and the weight,  i dont see a reason not to have that as an option


Edited by evanf117
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