Dealing with hidden MANPADs while flying solo?

[Mr_Blastman]

I started flying the KA-50 again a month ago after many, many years of not touching DCS.  The flying part came back quickly, as well as weapon employment.  I went straight to online servers--primarily PVP oriented ones as I prefer a dynamic environment that is always changing.  This is when I discovered hidden MANPADs.

 

Solo MANPADs hiding in forests... among the trees.

 

Yes, as if they are hard enough to find out in the open, somehow they're trekking through the woods to shoot me down as I rain fire down upon a remote FARP in the mountains.  I get no warning, I see not their presence, only the curling cloud of smoke as it emerges from the leaves, blasting my engines out and then I spiral into the ground.

 

What's the best way to find these bastards?  Do I even bother?  If they're in the trees I do not have FLIR to see them.  Do I load up on parachute bombs and carpet annihilate woods in a manner that would have environmentalist calling Geneva and demanding my execution for my vicious deforestation?

 

What's irritating is since I can't spot them while trying to take out bigger targets such as HAWK and various stinger/sidewinder armored carriers and Vulcan swiss cheese graters, I'm a sitting duck in my hover in the valley.  These little buggers are free to crawl up beneath me and boom, time to respawn.

 

[BaD CrC]

Just like IRL, not a lot of things you can do Mr_Blastman except flying low and putting all the natural and man made obstacles you can between you and the manpads. If you are lucky enough to spot the guy (IA MANPADS are usually engaging at max range so it gives you a chance to spot the plume) Vikhrs will comfortably allow you to engage outside his 3 km range. But if he is starting to walk under the trees, it's gonna be very complicated. The DCS rockets, even the S13 have limited splash effect and it is possible that a single infantry survives an entire S13 pod emptied on him, if you are lucky enough to be able to engage him close enough for the rockets.

Generally speaking, PvP servers with choppers is an heresy and the vast majority of public servers are first built with FW in mind so the boys can play at shooting each others Fortnite style at 30,000 ft. Manpads are only used as a deterrent to avoid them from descending below a minimum altitude or getting too close to some limited areas like respawn points. Choppers on these servers are added as a second thought with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of their capabilities and limitations. The only thing you'll get by flying there is frustration.

When Manpads are used in a RW mission, it is an information that is clearly shown in the intel briefing with areas clearly marked on the map. In the worst case, a recon flight of SA342/OH58(soon) will have to fly the area prior the arrival of the Attack helicopters and report activity. No serious combat mission would let you fly in an area where MANPADS activity is taking place.

[Mr_Blastman]

I have been flying on the blue flag servers which encourage invading FARPs/Airbases and capturing territory and helos are essential to re-supply and reinforce captured FARPs.  Some of these simply cannot be cleared out easily with fixed wing aircraft given the terrain limitations.

 

I think in the last couple of weeks players have started hiding manpads in the woods with their re-supplies.  They are showing up in devious spots you cannot spot them at.

 

I noticed how poor the S13s are at killing infantry, which is counter-intuitive because they were designed for killing them.  Perhaps ED will fix the splash problem?

 

Even with splash, spotting them is still a nightmare when in trees.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Mr_Blastman

[Raptor9]

In reality, MANPADS are integrated into an air defense plan designed to provide protection of specific assets against certain threats from certain attack profiles/directions. It does no good to have them just milling about in nice places to hide across a combat theater hoping to spot aircraft randomly flying through their kill zone.

As an example, if you have MANPADS teams augmenting a SHORAD unit in defense of a motor rifle company, you would ideally have those MANPADS placed appropriately for that defense plan, specifically to protect that unit. In this sense, while enroute to your objective you want to avoid concentrations of enemy forces because of the likelihood of such teams. And then utilize standoff from your objective as much as possible, while exposing your helicopter to the least amount of enemy forces as possible. Like shooting through a gap in the trees or a saddle in the hills.

Unfortunately, a lot of MP servers have MANPADS traps as a "gotcha" surprise against players, not necessarily placed as part of an integrated air defense plan.

[Apok]

Fly low and fast also preflare in target zone. Fly it like its Hind but then target detection is hard cuz of single pilot. Sad truth is attack helos in manpad saturated space are in serious problem.

[Hobel]

Things like manpads are actually all shown in the Abris blue or red circle.

 

so i go hunting specifically so that friendly flyers have it easier in certain areas

[Raptor9]

6 hours ago, Hobel said:

Things like manpads are actually all shown in the Abris blue or red circle.

Only if the mission maker chooses to show them, which isn't always the case.

[BaD CrC]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:16 PM, Hobel said:

Things like manpads are actually all shown in the Abris blue or red circle.

 

so i go hunting specifically so that friendly flyers have it easier in certain areas

In poorly designed missions yes.

[Mr. Farknocker]

The gazelle in the Rotorheads server, a server dedicated to helos, is used as a scout to spot, identify and mark targets with smoke for fixed wing and other rotorcrafts to dispatch. There's probably quite a bit of scripting to support that function but its the only way I know of to detect these annoying manpads that cannot be visually spotted with the naked eye. I would imagine that it's possible to pair a scout gazelle with a Ka 50 or any other rotorcraft to work as a team to clear paths for ingress and egress into and out of hot zones.

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[GGTharos]

The game makes it 'easy' to identify MANPADS because they always hold their tube and they're never in hiding.   Consider this an AI limitation.   Your target isn't the MANPADS, it's whatever you want to destroy and your priority would be to find, identify and destroy that while assuming there are MANPADS everywhere looking for you.

[bies]

Ka-50's one pilot concept in well protected cockpit with limited visibility, lack of thermal sight with dedicated gunner and nearly fixed canon make it particularly vulnerable to late detected threats, like MANPADs. Design is always a compromise.

[Apok]

There is no such thing as hunting manpads. You can only be aware of one when missile is already in the air.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Apok

[Preendog]

After dying in a SP mission to manpad I got into the habit of avoiding all mission waypoints, and approach the target area from a different direction than the planned flight path.  Seems to work pretty well.

If the mission designer adds manpads to a map, they are likely to put them somewhere they think the player will fly, or at least nearby in a corridor around the player's path.  They won't pepper the whole world with them because those might interfere with other AI aircraft in undesired ways.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Preendog

[CYPHER11]

IRL Manpads are not hidden in the woods - they need a clear LOS to get a lock onto the target - it‘s a DCS Problem guess - would be great that if some place them in the woods if the AI capability would be downgraded to some point… but guess it‘ll take years to fix this by ED ;D

[GGTharos]

5 hours ago, CYPHER11 said:

IRL Manpads are not hidden in the woods - they need a clear LOS to get a lock onto the target - it‘s a DCS Problem guess - would be great that if some place them in the woods if the AI capability would be downgraded to some point… but guess it‘ll take years to fix this by ED ;D

IRL they will hide in woods, buildings, vehicles or anywhere they might need to, and pop out to take their shot.

IRL it's also so much harder to spot them and pick them off unlike what happens in DCS where people go MANPADS hunting.

[Enduro14]

Manpads are pretty easy to hunt now in dcs,  you have residual smoke left at their launch spot.  Spot the smoke spot the pad and kill.

[GGTharos]

IRL you would spot the smoke also but in DCS you don't need it, as long as you have a pod.   Sometimes even without that.   That's all because the little 3d object that is the MANPADs stands out and has no real means to hide.  They also don't move away from the smoke once they shoot.

[gav88888]

If you have the Apache George can spot them easily, way way way before I can even see them, then chuck a hellfire in to take him out

[M1Combat]

Just hide harder than the manpad...