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Tips for taking off with the Mosquito?


MisterMac

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Many newer players try to force the aircraft (with success) into the air where they will immediately stall. So perhaps you were one of them and tried to fly too early? 

 

Either way this can also happen in real life with certain planes, that fly earlier than they actually can or could fly (ground effect helping them). Then the pilot gets out of the ground effect and stalls. 


Edited by razo+r
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3 hours ago, ClausHoffmann said:

The Mossie in my impression can fly before it can steer. Aiming for a higher lift off speed helped me a lot. Is that a realistic approach/assumption?

 

Probably the wings disrupting the airflow to the rudder until the tail lifts.

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Why don't doing more practice before moan on a forum?

Why always looking for a tip or a fix or a cheat...something like that?before doing a lot of attempts.

All of us know that many features externaly of the game give a different feeling.

Even if one of us can do something in the game nothing proove that it could be done by every one.

In cause the different stuff that we use to play the game as joysticks and graphics cards,memory,processor....

At each different rig the feeling is different.

And you would like to find a trick the able to cover all situations?

Good game😂

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But there are common mistakes, like lifting tail too early, or trying to lift plane too early(often the case is that player has no idea what is he doing 🙂 ), often ppl try to take off with very low power and rpm, i've seen different things.

Some ppl trying ww2 stuff coming from modern jets where at take off you often need almost full aft stick, and here neutral or a tiny pull is needed for take off.


Edited by grafspee

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On 10/25/2021 at 7:45 PM, No1sonuk said:

If I taxi myself to the runway, I get significant left or right bias on the takeoff.
If I go with the "Takeoff practice" instant action, it goes straight until around rotation speed, then swings slightly left as I lift off.

Glad I found this thread, I was beginning to think I was going mad with all the sliding off the runway. I've never really had a problerm with taking off before.

My own observations match no1sonuk in that if I cold start and taxi the plane myself it seems uncontrollable on take off - despite a long pull forward to straighten the tail wheel. If I just go for straight take off from the runway then I can get airborne a lot more reliably.

I shall try a few of these valuable suggestions and continue working at it...

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On 10/31/2021 at 6:05 PM, GplStewart said:

Glad I found this thread, I was beginning to think I was going mad with all the sliding off the runway. I've never really had a problerm with taking off before.

My own observations match no1sonuk in that if I cold start and taxi the plane myself it seems uncontrollable on take off - despite a long pull forward to straighten the tail wheel. If I just go for straight take off from the runway then I can get airborne a lot more reliably.

I shall try a few of these valuable suggestions and continue working at it...

Try fuel at 25%, there is more rudder authority at lower speeds with less weight.

I find no difference after taxi, provided aircraft is straight, (quite difficult to achieve). Also smoke bug is more likely.

 

Sunday morning circuit practice at RAF Eastchurch, 3600', nil wind, Channel Map. Mosquitos used airfields of 3300' during WWII, so I'm practicing here, using various loading weights. This vid shows a lightweight 25% fuel with default trim settings complete circuit, followed by a full weight, (100% fuel plus 4 x 500 lb bombs.

 

 

 

 

..


Edited by Holbeach
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On 10/20/2021 at 7:01 PM, No1sonuk said:
On 10/20/2021 at 12:37 AM, NineLine said:

I am using the pinky trigger on the Warthog, so its analogue as well, so you have to be very gentle. But if you use the rudder and brakes together, with gentle touches I can generally keep it where it needs to be. Give it a shot when you get your rudder pedals sorted. 

The pinky trigger on the Warthog stick is a digital button (#4), not analogue.  I just rechecked in case I missed something...

I believe he is referring to the analogue mouse hat or slew control. The Deltasim upgrade makes this a lot more feasible as a wheel brake control in my experience.

 


Edited by Baldrick33

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Ok,one more time,this is my method that I took from 'Holbeach' and I have now added a little personal extra tip in red......it is very important that whilst holding the 4 Ib Boost against the brakes,that you wait 3-4 seconds until the RPM has 'settled' down(not jumping about on the dial).....then.....and only then,let go of the brakes and  advance to 1800 Ib Boost.

I hope this helps anyone still struggling with Mossie take offs.

 

Method

Nose down 2.0, right rudder 0.5 tick, aileron right 1 tick, 15 deg flap. 3000 RPM

Advance throttles to 4 lb against the brakes.......hold on the brakes until RPM is settled (3-4 seconds), let go brakes, advance to 18 lb. boost.

This will give a straight run without use of rudder or brakes until shortly after tail lift, when it will drift left. Compensate. Lift off at 120 mph. 

Wheels up, trim out nose up tendency. Flaps up, trim out nose down tendency. Stay level. build speed to 200 mph.


Edited by Basco1
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Ive tried it. It works great.

But I still think there is something wrong if you can avoid nearly all drift through the acceleration phase, pretty much as you can avoid the worst affects in the Spitfire by bunting the throttle open

The pilot notes  for Mosquito are clear, you have to adjust via the throttle, presumably before the rudder is effective, yet you absolutely cannot do that during acceleration, or you spin out.

 

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3 hours ago, stuart666 said:

I

 

The pilot notes  for Mosquito are clear, you have to adjust via the throttle, presumably before the rudder is effective, yet you absolutely cannot do that during acceleration, or you spin out.

 

This is confirmed by reading WW2 pilot anecdotes. Lead with the left throttle initially until the rudder becomes effective. There is little swing, if the engines are synchronized.

Difficult to achieve with one throttle.

If you try to use brakes, things can get worse. They are too strong, (increased in a recent update) and the lever is too fast, causing over correction.

Watching airshow Mossies, they wind up against the brakes and then gun it and that is what I do and it works. (More than one way to skin a cat}.

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Yeah, ive a split throttle warthog, and I cant make it work. Perhaps you need a throttle with a longer travel, might be worth trying those 3d printed ones that are being worked on I guess.

Yeah, I believe it. I suspect it likely that heavily loaded they would have had to have advanced against the brakes.

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On 11/7/2021 at 2:55 AM, Basco1 said:

Ok,one more time,this is my method that I took from 'Holbeach' and I have now added a little personal extra tip in red......it is very important that whilst holding the 4 Ib Boost against the brakes,that you wait 3-4 seconds until the RPM has 'settled' down(not jumping about on the dial).....then.....and only then,let go of the brakes and  advance to 1800 Ib Boost.

I hope this helps anyone still struggling with Mossie take offs.

 

Method

Nose down 2.0, right rudder 0.5 tick, aileron right 1 tick, 15 deg flap. 3000 RPM

Advance throttles to 4 lb against the brakes.......hold on the brakes until RPM is settled (3-4 seconds), let go brakes, advance to 18 lb. boost.

This will give a straight run without use of rudder or brakes until shortly after tail lift, when it will drift left. Compensate. Lift off at 120 mph. 

Wheels up, trim out nose up tendency. Flaps up, trim out nose down tendency. Stay level. build speed to 200 mph.

 

This is working well for me, thank you!

I tend to add 30 degrees of flap for MTOW, which may not be correct.

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16 hours ago, Morat said:

This is working well for me, thank you!

I tend to add 30 degrees of flap for MTOW, which may not be correct.

Well it all depends what payload/fuel your carrying,if your carrying a full payload with full tanks,I set flaps to 15 degrees,but the maximum take off flap degree input should not exceed 25 degrees......so yes 30 degrees is over excessive. for take off.

The beauty of this method is that is does away with having to use your brakes to correct the aircraft's path down the runway,reading this forum I see guys are falling over themselves to try and customize or fiddle with their brakes to make them work better,but you don't need to do this if you get a good run in the first place.

I'm still using the paddle switch for my brakes (more realistic for the Mosquito) on my Warthog,which is not progressive,but it doesn't need to be,I get a good straight run every time,using the method described,so I don't need to correct my aircraft's path once I'm on the way.

BTW glad this is working for you too 👍


Edited by Basco1
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3 hours ago, Basco1 said:

The beauty of this method is that is does away with having to use your brakes to correct the aircraft's path down the runway,reading this forum I see guys are falling over themselves to try and customize or fiddle with their brakes to make them work better,but you don't need to do this if you get a good run in the first place.

 

I think it is because the Mosquito seems the most sensitive on the brakes for aircraft that use a joystick lever rudder braking system and the least progressive of the applications, hence the tweaks to make it more progressive using Joystick Gremlin etc. or much better adding an analog brake.

It just feels nicer than tap tapping the lever to taxi.

Whilst not essential an analog brake lever for these aircraft is a missing feature for Warthog owners and other sticks the Mosquito has really bought that to our attention!

 

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To brake in a given direction, I just index the direction by applying rudder and then tap the brake. The only problem im having is because the paddle switch on the thrustmaster is of an on/off nature, you cant graduate it. So you have to be real careful on the landing roll not to hold it too long or you get a nasty tail thump. Ive broke the tail wheel a couple of times doing that.

I cant dig using brakes on take off. Yes, as it stands, you dont have much alternative. But if you are veering before you rudder gives any input, that is really what using split throttles is supposed to fix. Which doesnt seem to work. And due to the nature of the brakes, you are probably setting yourself up for a spin in the opposite direction than you were getting.

As said, the best way to do it is work against the parking brake, run up the engines, pop the brakes and run the engine up quick. It works. Whether it works so well because the airframe accelerates too quickly on the ground is my only question. I think there is still something not working quite right here.


Edited by stuart666
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Split throttles works, key in good take off roll is to hold brakes run engines at least to elevation boost and check tachometers if rpm for both engines are exact the same if not adjust throttle to match rpm, the release brakes and watch if left or right turn start to develop if so, add power to the engine to cancel this turn once you notice that turn rate start to slow down add power to the lagging engine in mean time steer rudder as always. When you stabilized initial roll add power to your take off power, i use 14.4boost, throttle detent not lifted.

And don't forget about take off trim 🙂

This is how i do it. You can see my inputs on this recording.

 


Edited by grafspee
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Take off, (16 2723') and Landing, (20 2244') at Shorts Rochester aircraft factory. Light condition. 30% fuel, unarmed, 17494 lb. Default trim settings.

There's an air raid in progress, 10 Ju 88 here, plus 4 88's at Eastchurch. 8 Spifires are scrambled from Eastchurch and Detling.

No time to hang around.

 

 

 

..


Edited by Holbeach
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On 11/10/2021 at 8:52 AM, jcomm said:

Has to be easier in the real thing...

It is easy to take off and land Mosquito in DCS. Right now i do it automatically not very much thinking how i do it.

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On 11/9/2021 at 3:16 PM, grafspee said:

Split throttles works, key in good take off roll is to hold brakes run engines at least to elevation boost and check tachometers if rpm for both engines are exact the same if not adjust throttle to match rpm, the release brakes and watch if left or right turn start to develop if so, add power to the engine to cancel this turn once you notice that turn rate start to slow down add power to the lagging engine in mean time steer rudder as always. When you stabilized initial roll add power to your take off power, i use 14.4boost, throttle detent not lifted.

And don't forget about take off trim 🙂

This is how i do it. You can see my inputs on this recording.

 

 

grafspee, that's a very smooth takeoff run and lift-off 🙂 Nice job!

If I may be so bold, for a heavy TO your initial climb was quite steep and you throttled back well before Vmc. I stay lower until 200mph and I do find that the more rapid acceleration can help reduce the smoking/steaming engine effect.

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1 minute ago, Morat said:

grafspee, that's a very smooth takeoff run and lift-off 🙂 Nice job!

If I may be so bold, for a heavy TO your initial climb was quite steep and you throttled back well before Vmc. I stay lower until 200mph and I do find that the more rapid acceleration can help reduce the smoking/steaming engine effect.

Yes i always forget to get speed first, im used to single engine fighters so i climb as high as possible 😛

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/7/2021 at 10:55 AM, Basco1 said:

Ok,one more time,this is my method that I took from 'Holbeach' and I have now added a little personal extra tip in red......it is very important that whilst holding the 4 Ib Boost against the brakes,that you wait 3-4 seconds until the RPM has 'settled' down(not jumping about on the dial).....then.....and only then,let go of the brakes and  advance to 1800 Ib Boost.

I hope this helps anyone still struggling with Mossie take offs.

 

Method

Nose down 2.0, right rudder 0.5 tick, aileron right 1 tick, 15 deg flap. 3000 RPM

Advance throttles to 4 lb against the brakes.......hold on the brakes until RPM is settled (3-4 seconds), let go brakes, advance to 18 lb. boost.

This will give a straight run without use of rudder or brakes until shortly after tail lift, when it will drift left. Compensate. Lift off at 120 mph. 

Wheels up, trim out nose up tendency. Flaps up, trim out nose down tendency. Stay level. build speed to 200 mph.

 

I’m sorry I simply do not believe it was this hard for a 21 year old kid to kid this bird off the ground. 
 

I think it is currently borked 

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5 hours ago, nick10 said:

I’m sorry I simply do not believe it was this hard for a 21 year old kid to kid this bird off the ground. 
 

I think it is currently borked 

Maybe, though It would probably be amusing watching a 21 year old kid drive a 1940s car now!


Edited by Baldrick33
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