correct as is AGM-84E accuracy?

[bfr]

4 hours ago, TLTeo said:

@BIGNEWY @NineLine In light of the posts above, you really should have another look. It is not possible for the weapon to simultaneously be accurate and inaccurate without terminal guidance, something has to give.

Or at the very least please clarify when it was changed (it clearly has been at some stage) and why.

[amalahama]

So, apparently AGM-84E GPS-only accuracy was not that bad and indeed, it might perform more closely now than in the initial implementation

https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/smart/docs/tst_c21299.htm

Best regards

 

[norman99]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:23 PM, Rissala said:

Now, as you might have seen in testing, the weapon is pinpoint precise. I think the cause might be in that the SLAM-ER flight profile has been mixed up with the SLAM flight profile.

Definitely looks like the SLAM-ER guidance has been applied to the SLAM. Hopefully this is an honest error and easily fixed.

[Rissala]

3 hours ago, amalahama said:

So, apparently AGM-84E GPS-only accuracy was not that bad and indeed, it might perform more closely now than in the initial implementation

https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/smart/docs/tst_c21299.htm

Best regards

 

Nice find.
Only issue I find with this source is that the test was done nearly 10 years after the weapon was implemented, 1 year before decomissioning.
I assume it has something to do with improved GPS constellations and better recievers since they talk about a "newly implemented GPS-only guidance tactic".
That 10 ft (3 meter) CEP was most likely not achievable in 1990. Again, some interpretation is required by ED to choose between 10ft CEP (1999) and a larger one (closer to IOC state), unless proven otherwise.

I assume it would be the best for the entire (Hornet) community if we could get an original representation of this weapon in its 1990's configuration.
As I said somewhere above, currently this weapon might as well be a JSOW with a jet engine which is not very realistic if we want a scenario representing late 80's or early 90's. This is the primary reason why this weapon is currently kind of a weird one since it actually never needs that last feet guidance nor the DL pod. It would also help to diffrentiate this weapon from the SLAM-ER, its successor.

There is lots of potential in this weapon to be a fun and engaging one (imagine buddy guidance etc.), but for now it is just a JSOW.

P.S.
Currently the SLAM has around 0.0 feet of CEP which we can all agree, is not correct.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Rissala

[amalahama]

3 hours ago, Rissala said:

Nice find.
Only issue I find with this source is that the test was done nearly 10 years after the weapon was implemented, 1 year before decomissioning.
I assume it has something to do with improved GPS constellations and better recievers since they talk about a "newly implemented GPS-only guidance tactic".
That 10 ft (3 meter) CEP was most likely not achievable in 1990. Again, some interpretation is required by ED to choose between 10ft CEP (1999) and a larger one (closer to IOC state), unless proven otherwise.

I assume it would be the best for the entire (Hornet) community if we could get an original representation of this weapon in its 1990's configuration.
As I said somewhere above, currently this weapon might as well be a JSOW with a jet engine which is not very realistic if we want a scenario representing late 80's or early 90's. This is the primary reason why this weapon is currently kind of a weird one since it actually never needs that last feet guidance nor the DL pod. It would also help to diffrentiate this weapon from the SLAM-ER, its successor.

There is lots of potential in this weapon to be a fun and engaging one (imagine buddy guidance etc.), but for now it is just a JSOW.

P.S.
Currently the SLAM has around 0.0 feet of CEP which we can all agree, is not correct.

 

So, according to this source, after the sucessful employment of the rushed pre-production assets during ODS, the SLAM saw a small facelift in 1993 named SLAM P3I (Pre-Planned Product Improvement), in what would become the definitive SLAM standard used in Bosnia and other 90's conflicts. This version apparently included an improved autopilot plus other QoL enhancements. Since the article I mentioned before mentions a "newly GPS-only guidance tactics" and didn't say a word about new hardware been tested, I would assume that this improved version could indeed support a GPS-only attack although it was not common practise until very late in the operational life of the missile, and that a Bosnian/Kosovo kind of SLAM standard could fit very well with this capability, although an early ODS variant will likely not.

And yeah, 0.0 CEP is not correct, neither for SLAM or JDAM or any other weapon in game, hopefully ED will gradually improve guidance realism with CEP modeling at some point.ç

Regards

[Rissala]

19 hours ago, amalahama said:

So, according to this source, after the sucessful employment of the rushed pre-production assets during ODS, the SLAM saw a small facelift in 1993 named SLAM P3I (Pre-Planned Product Improvement), in what would become the definitive SLAM standard used in Bosnia and other 90's conflicts. This version apparently included an improved autopilot plus other QoL enhancements. Since the article I mentioned before mentions a "newly GPS-only guidance tactics" and didn't say a word about new hardware been tested, I would assume that this improved version could indeed support a GPS-only attack although it was not common practise until very late in the operational life of the missile, and that a Bosnian/Kosovo kind of SLAM standard could fit very well with this capability, although an early ODS variant will likely not.

And yeah, 0.0 CEP is not correct, neither for SLAM or JDAM or any other weapon in game, hopefully ED will gradually improve guidance realism with CEP modeling at some point.ç

Regards

Excellent research!!!!

I hope we'd get an early 90's SLAM so that in practice there would be some difference between the -ER and the original variant. (more CEP so DL pod is required)

Edited May 11, 2022 by Rissala

[Zergburger]

If SLAM is that accurate with GPS guidance only, why does JDAM have such a big CEP?

[Rissala]

On 5/16/2022 at 11:52 PM, Zergburger said:

If SLAM is that accurate with GPS guidance only, why does JDAM have such a big CEP?

Read through the comments above. The SLAM, was quite accurate (20ft CEP) in its final years due to some upgrades. Right now in DCS the SLAM uses a very simple flight model (probably taken from the SLAM-ER) which represents the SLAM-ER. There isn't any CEP modelled yet.

Think through it this way. The JDAM has CEP modelled, the SLAM does not.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Rissala

[Kenan]

I have a problem with 84E: Whether using GPS coordinates (Mission Editor) or TOO (Targeting Pod), the missile always misses the target by 100m or so. I also cannot control the missile via DataLink (holding TDS and trying to steer it) and I have "Realistic TDC" checked in my Options.

Anyone experienced a similar problem?

[AMVI_Hawk]

Yes, the problem of the terminal guide of SLAM still exists.
On the changelog of OB update 2.8 you find:

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet by Eagle Dynamics
Ongoing tasks for later updates:

• Correcting AGM-84D, AGM-84E, and SLAM-ER behaviours.

We just need to wait

Kind regards

Hawk