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Feedback Thread - F-14 Patch - JESTER LANTIRN + USS Forrestal - Oct 20th 2021 + Hotfix Oct 28th


IronMike

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Above 400 KIAS or Mach 0.9 that is normal behaviour, but there seems to be a problem indeed, since the elevators shudder at 300 KIAS as well.
But HeatBlur already stated that there are issues with the autopilot in this patch. disengaging A/P not remembering the trim settings that it used is also one, for example.

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Instant Action Caucuses Case I recovery mission, the TACAN works for a minute or two then dies.

 

Already checked...TACAN on and on T/R, tuned to 059X, pilot selected, AWL steering selected.  Works then HSI stops working and the bidi TACAN needle starts spinning.

Checked it again.  Seems that it stops working if you miss your first trap (bolter or otherwise).

v6,

boNes


Edited by bonesvf103

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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On 10/23/2021 at 1:29 PM, Golo said:

I have just done some gear/flaps, pitch moment tests and I have some notes/questions.

Test conditions: F-14A, clean config, around 5k ft, at 15 AOA, trimmed to hands off level flight, at about 8k fuel.

When lowering gear alone (flaps up), there is a some pitch down moment which is what I would expect, razing gear will produce pitch up moment which is also OK imo. Next with same conditions when lowering flaps (gear up) there is also some pitch down moment, again OK as I wold expect. When razing the flaps there is a pitch up, again OK as expected.

So far so good, but now comes the wtf moment for me.

Same test conditions, I lower the gear (flaps still up) there is that pitch down, I compensate for it still holding 15 AOA, then I lower the flaps and instead of pitch down as I expected (from before that I tested flaps only) there is a quite a pitch up. Nose goes to 20° pitch line, 3k fmp up, I watch it still hands off as doing that bleeds off enough speed so it sets back to 15AOA at lower speed higher alt. Interesting, I raze the flaps just to see what happens and there is again pitch up now to 25° pitch line, AOA goes to 11 as they say (actually to 25) and Im in stall prevention mode.

Interesting. Now, why would flaps have different pitch moments just because of the gear state? With gear up they have pitch down moment as I would expect. With gear down they have pitch up moment. Why? All this at on speed 15AOA. Why are they not behave same regardless of gear position?       

Yep, like I said it feels abnormal. Grumman was smarter than that when they built this bird. 

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On 10/23/2021 at 9:40 PM, Coreyhkh1 said:

why does the plane shake when I have the autopilot on? do I need to turn something else on?

 

Yep same problem, also can't engage heading or altitude hold and in general flying with no assistance it feels very unstable in general handling.

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On 10/21/2021 at 9:11 AM, sLYFa said:

I'm not Victory but I can tell you that extending flaps on any aircraft will result in a pitch-down moment due to the center of lift shifting backwards.

This is definitely not true.  It varies depending on whether the wing is above or below CG, whether the horizontal stab is in downwash from the wing, and a few other factors.  In general (ie not always true), a high wing GA aircraft will pitch up with flap extension, and a low wing aircraft will pitch down.  A mid wing jet might do either. A 737 for instance has a noticeable initial pitch up, with every notch of flap extension between 1 and 30.

I have no idea what an F-14 might do, but we can't be making blanket statements about "any" aircraft ;).

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I'll admit that pitching moments can depend on wing position and cg, espcially for wing mounted props. I should have said flap extension produces a pitch down moment on any airfoil (since net cp increases a lot on the rear side of the wing). For a jet where there is not much offset between wings and thrust line and cg not being too far aft(like the F-14), this will result in the aircraft pitching down.

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Thank you for the Jester LANTIRN functionality!!

It's amazing and really enhances SP immersion.

Changing seats back and forth was very workable, but this is so great!

I appreciate all the hard work and attention to detail over the years, HB team!

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Since it is a hotfix, we will leave up this feedback thread, including the Hotfix. Thank you all for the great feedback so far, it is much appreciated as always!

DCS: F-14 Tomcat by Heatblur Simulations

  • Fixed CV-59 Forrestal LSO position after x axis offset.
  • Jester LANTIRN: Fixed crashes on landing gear down in LDG mode.
  • Jester LANTIRN: Don't show the QDES option when QDES is not available.
  • Jester LANTIRN: Static aircraft are no longer dead to Jester.
  • Rearming with LANTIRN within 4 minutes from hot spawn will result in the pod being installed as pre-aligned.
  • Jester will monitor the LANTIRN pod switch when idle on the ground.
  • Fixed Jester "Set active" not working after disabling Jester from the menu.
  • Taught Jester that you do not need an ejection to climb up in life, even when spawning low.
  • Adjusted longitudinal handling.
  • Removed pitch up effect in the early stage of flaps deployment.
  • Adjusted flaps pitching moment at lower AOAs.
  • Boosted TF30 thrust at very low altitudes and airspeeds.
  • Increased F110 subsonic core thrust at low altitudes.
  • Adjusted landing gear drag.
  • Partial fix to AP altitude hold not engaging and holding properly (WIP).
  • Partial adjustment of AP gains and handling (WIP).
  • Fixed TACAN for Caucasus and PG CV-59 Case1 Quickstart Missions.
  • Updated Fear the Bones Teaser Mission by Reflected Simulations.
  • Updated Zone 5 Teaser Mission by Reflected Simulations.
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  • IronMike changed the title to Feedback Thread - F-14 Patch - JESTER LANTIRN + USS Forrestal - Oct 20th 2021 + Hotfix Oct 28th
On 10/29/2021 at 11:45 AM, IronMike said:

Since it is a hotfix, we will leave up this feedback thread, including the Hotfix. Thank you all for the great feedback so far, it is much appreciated as always!

DCS: F-14 Tomcat by Heatblur Simulations

  • Fixed TACAN for Caucasus and PG CV-59 Case1 Quickstart Missions.

This one is still not working after the Oct 28 hotfix.  I have the Steam edition and did an integrity check.  Even after the files were redownloaded, the problem still occurs.

 

Thanks!

v6,

boNes


Edited by bonesvf103

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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9 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

This one is still not working after the Oct 28 hotfix.  I have the Steam edition and did an integrity check.  Even after the files were redownloaded, the problem still occurs.

 

Thanks!

v6,

boNes

 

 

Yep, channel 59X isn't working for me either...

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Having control issues with the F-14. I have tried both the A&B. 

When in the firs person (F1) view the aircraft controls are dampened. I can put in full deflection and get almost no reaction. When I switch to exterior view (F2) everything works fine. It is almost like I have to pump the stick to get movement. I can move the stick to the center and back in the direction of roll and I get a little more roll each time. It is not my joystick, I have tried multiple other aircraft with no issues. I have done a repair and tried restarting my computer. I have been testing in free flight so it's not like I forgot to turn on a pump (and if I had, it shouldn't work in the exterior view). This didn't happen until the latest hotfix.

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3 hours ago, draconus said:

@Coota0 start with Rctrl+Enter to check controls indicator and also check cross-bindings on axis category. Start another thread if you don't figure it out.

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it in 2D with just the monitor to check the controls as you suggested. It worked fine. I guess it is an oculus issue...maybe. I'll have to try it with oculus now.

 

It was a VR options issue. Had to make sure the hand controllers were unchecked in options. Weird that it only affected the F-14.


Edited by Coota0
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I've been taking a break from DCS (not entirely willingly) and I can't wait to get back into the 'Cat and have Jester designate and call out targets for laser guided munitions!

I've no doubt the UI will take some getting used to, seeing as I've not been in the Tomcat (A or B) for quite some time but there's one thing I've noticed that's been bugging me...

Where's the official VF-1 'Wolfpack' livery!? I bought the VF-1 shirt (was part of the pre-order)and when the B shipped, there was no VF-1. I got told something along the lines of 'It's planned but VF-1 only flew the older A model', which is fine. But now we have the A model and nil by VF-1 livery - even after this massive update (which added a few more liveries, or at least I hadn't them noticed before).

Is the VF-1 livery still planned as an official livery for the F-14? Yes, I know I can get it from the user forum in the mean-time and liveries are low priority but I would still like to see the squadron whose shirt I bought at pre-order have an official livery for the plane in DCS. 

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On 10/23/2021 at 2:29 PM, Golo said:

I have just done some gear/flaps, pitch moment tests and I have some notes/questions.

Test conditions: F-14A, clean config, around 5k ft, at 15 AOA, trimmed to hands off level flight, at about 8k fuel.

When lowering gear alone (flaps up), there is a some pitch down moment which is what I would expect, razing gear will produce pitch up moment which is also OK imo. Next with same conditions when lowering flaps (gear up) there is also some pitch down moment, again OK as I wold expect. When razing the flaps there is a pitch up, again OK as expected.

So far so good, but now comes the wtf moment for me.

Same test conditions, I lower the gear (flaps still up) there is that pitch down, I compensate for it still holding 15 AOA, then I lower the flaps and instead of pitch down as I expected (from before that I tested flaps only) there is a quite a pitch up. Nose goes to 20° pitch line, 3k fmp up, I watch it still hands off as doing that bleeds off enough speed so it sets back to 15AOA at lower speed higher alt. Interesting, I raze the flaps just to see what happens and there is again pitch up now to 25° pitch line, AOA goes to 11 as they say (actually to 25) and Im in stall prevention mode.

Interesting. Now, why would flaps have different pitch moments just because of the gear state? With gear up they have pitch down moment as I would expect. With gear down they have pitch up moment. Why? All this at on speed 15AOA. Why are they not behave same regardless of gear position?       

I actually just read about generally the effects to expect on gear/ flap deployment in the FAA instrument flying handbook FAA-H-8083-15B, I have an older book... Here it what it specifically states in relation to instrument scan during slowing down for gear and flaps deployment, in relation to a GA plane tho so keep that in mind, a Tomcat isn't a GA plane.

"...Having learned to control the airplane in a clean configuration (minimum drag conditions), increase proficiency in cross-check and control by practicing speed changes while extending or retracting the flaps and landing gear. While practicing, be sure to comply with the airspeed limitations specified in the POH/AFM {in our case natops or DCS manual} for gear and flap operation."

"Sudden and exaggerated attitude changes may be necessary in order to maintain straight-and-level flight as the landing gear is extended and the flaps are lowered in some airplanes. The nose tends to pitch down with gear extension, and when flaps are lowered, lift increases momentarily (at partial flap settings) followed by a marked increase in drag as the flaps near maximum extension."

"Control technique varies according to the lift and drag characteristics of each airplane. Accordingly, knowledge of the power settings and trim changes associated with different combinations of airspeed, gear, and flap configurations reduces instrument cross-check and interpretation problems."

Bottom line is it says here is the trend you can expect, but actually know about your aircraft you are actually operating and study the POH.

I'd think flaps should behave the same regardless of gear position, but when the gear comes down you should get a cumulative effect of more drag added vs than just with the flaps extended.

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On 10/29/2021 at 12:45 PM, IronMike said:
  • Partial fix to AP altitude hold not engaging and holding properly (WIP).
  • Partial adjustment of AP gains and handling (WIP).

Will we have the hotfixes for these two soon?


Edited by scommander2

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On 11/5/2021 at 3:02 AM, scommander2 said:

Will we have the hotfixes for these two soon?

 

We hotfixed them in the previous patch - albeit we're unhappy with the current state as well. The next fix will be proper and thus take a bit longer, as we have to review the autopilot completely and make it better, more reliable and easier to adjust altogether. Thank you for your kind patience.

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On 10/25/2021 at 8:03 AM, bonesvf103 said:

Instant Action Caucuses Case I recovery mission, the TACAN works for a minute or two then dies.

 

Already checked...TACAN on and on T/R, tuned to 059X, pilot selected, AWL steering selected.  Works then HSI stops working and the bidi TACAN needle starts spinning.

Checked it again.  Seems that it stops working if you miss your first trap (bolter or otherwise).

v6,

boNes

 

 

Don't know exactly to which extent it might be related, but I noticed the following opening that Instant Action with Mission Editor :

 

- select the CV-59 on map > right column buttons > ROUTE button > Avanced (waypoint actions) ... the correct 59X code does appear ... but :

select the CV-59 on map > right column buttons > TRIGGERED ACTIONS button ... the wrong 74X code (from John C. Stennis) does appear.

(see image below)

 

Maybe this is causing the conflict we observe ?

( didn't yet managed to try editing and test it after )

Screen_211113_205013A.jpg

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3 hours ago, Nealius said:

That's strange. TACAN and ICLS activate/deactivate typically is only done on waypoint advanced actions. Putting it in the Triggered Actions is strange. 

That would be better for blackout option missions though.  Bio had a few examples in Tomcat RIO.  

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5 hours ago, Nealius said:

That's strange. TACAN and ICLS activate/deactivate typically is only done on waypoint advanced actions. Putting it in the Triggered Actions is strange. 

 

Not being me someone who remotely knows anything about programing, coding or whatever :

I suppose, that USS John C. Stennis 74X TACAN code still appearing in 'triggered actions' is a remaining from previous DCS versions, which was not updated to the correct 59X with the USS Forrestal implementation in game.

 

My point was merely, if sometimes this may cause some sort of conflict causing the TACAN to stop working.

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  • IronMike unpinned this topic
  • 1 month later...

So, does any of the devs know if the above situation ^ is resolved ?

Thank you.

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8 hours ago, Top Jockey said:

So, does any of the devs know if the above situation ^ is resolved ?

Thank you.

It is a legacy issue I need to remove is all. Will try to do before the next patch. Some iterations ago, tacan would turn off, so I have fail-safe triggers which will re-engage the tacan every 10 min in the mission with a switched condition trigger. This is likely when it then flips to the 74X, as I forgot to remove that bit. Thanks for pointing it out!

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