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Briefing Room


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@NineLine

In my opinion (and I feel like others would agree) the #1 priority for the super carrier should be (in no particular order):

- Adding Night Wands to Night Crew

- Allowing a way for users to control boat heading & speed, and a way to cause the boat to set a WOD (20-30 knots, 30 knots default), maybe a menu command, or adding a Mission Editor trigger would be great too.

- Fix issues with F-14. Maybe it's seen as not high priority because it's not an ED module, but F-14s integrate with F-18s and is a MAJOR issue when deck crew refuse to launch F-14s.

- Fix LSO grading and PLATCAM angle.

- Add NV to night time PLATCAM

- Add ability for users to activate CUT & Waveoff lights IN VR. (Unless I missed the way to do this)

- Deck markings not visible in mission editor.

All of the extra stuff could come in 1+ years and nobody would mind. Things like the Ready Room/Greenie Board, the squadrons who would use this stuff they already have their own ways to deal with it. Discord/screen share for briefings, Google Sheets for Greenie Boards, and both of those arguably work better anyways. Improved deck crew that actually start up your jet, or taxi you around/etc would be sweet to see, but the critical issues need to come first before more features!


Edited by MARLAN_
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Virtual CVW-8 - The mission of Virtual Carrier Air Wing EIGHT is to provide its members with an organization committed to presenting an authentic representation of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing operations in training and combat environments based on the real world experience of its real fighter pilots, air intercept controllers, airbosses, and many others.

 

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2 hours ago, BarTzi said:

Can we have a feature poll for the supercarrier? I mean, it will reduce the amount of complaints for sure.

 

I can run it by management, but its not like an aircraft module, some of the features are 100% new features to DCS, and bugs are bugs, they don't really need to be voted on, they just need to be dealt with soon as we have the dev time to do it. I am already going to stress the desire to have Night Ops more fleshed out, and a couple other comments I have seen, but I am not sure the poll is needed. Thanks.

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I'm still not clear about for whom this briefing room is meant. Is this a multiplayer only feature, for online squadrons? Or can single player creators use the briefing room in their campaigns? I mean it would add  tremendous immersion to any campaign if mission briefings and debriefings could be held in an actual briefing room.....

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

That's what I'm hoping for, too. Just imagine to sit in a 3D briefing room in VR, getting briefed of an upcoming mission...

If you follow VTOL VR. A "Breifing Room" Feature was implemented , as such as a ah-64 clone helicopter. it pretty much goes how a breifing room would go with random people. 

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25 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

 it would add  tremendous immersion to any campaign if mission briefings and debriefings could be held in an actual briefing room.....

 

 

 

I hope so but I think we will be disappointed.  When is this feature expected to be released?

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9 hours ago, NineLine said:

I can run it by management, but its not like an aircraft module, some of the features are 100% new features to DCS, and bugs are bugs, they don't really need to be voted on, they just need to be dealt with soon as we have the dev time to do it. I am already going to stress the desire to have Night Ops more fleshed out, and a couple other comments I have seen, but I am not sure the poll is needed. Thanks.

A poll is a useful way to present the wishes of the community to the devs, without the usual cycle of complaint threads that get locked by community managers every other week. Even if you don't do anything with the poll, you still end up knowing what the community thinks about the importance of some features vs the others. 

My frustration with this module comes from the priorities some features take over others. Here are some of my problems with the current state of the module:

1. There's no mission editor support for this module, which means:

a. We can't turn the carrier into the wind (via WP or ME command). I know this is planned to be tied to the airboss station, but it shouldn't be, and instead should have been a day one feature, as this is a fundamental feature of carrier ops. 

b. We can't choose spawn points / location for players or AI. This is becoming more and more annoying when you wish to populate the deck, and your AI helicopter keeps spawning inside static objects.

c. AI does not know how to takeoff properly (there's no option in the me to force them to follow the correct procedures).

2. It was released without a properly working ATC for multiplayer.

It seems like the ATC doesn't handle MP very well right now. It doesn't support any formation of planes (case 1 is a good example) and often mishandles multiple planes in case 3 (assigning the first pilot to hold at 8,000, the second pilot to 7,000 and the third pilot to 8,000 is very very common and we encounter it almost every session). Sadly, this leads a big part of the target audience of this module (virtual squadrons) to use a script instead of the SC ATC, despite your major efforts to bring us this system.

3. A very limited night ops support

We can't see the crew at night. I know that this is not an airframe module and that this is new to DCS, but this is like releasing a plane with no external lighting. We just can't see what's going on on deck. Additionally, we can't control the deck lights. Try using this module at night without NVG on deck, and see for yourself.

4. No zip lip / cyclic ops support. 

This leads to some major inaccuracies in how your ATC system works. While I expect this to never be a part of the module, it would be nice to know if it's planned \ something you think about.

5. IFLOLS inaccuracies and lack of support for other modules (F14). 

 

When the module was released at that state, I thought "there's no way they are going to keep it like that". I was 100% sure you will focus on finishing the remaining ATC features and deal with all I've said above, and only then move on to the extra features. Sadly, that hasn't happened.

From your newsletter and recent updates, it seems like the focus is on the airboss station and briefing room. It's odd to me that you try to add all of those extra features without having a fleshed out list of core (IFLOLS, ATC, ME functionality, QOL) features that work well. I might be wrong here, and all of the above might be in development and a lot more complex than what we all think, but this is what we want to hear about currently.

Having said that, both the airboss station and briefing room look good (ignoring the inaccuracies in the plat cam, and the made up names for lso grades), and I praise the devs for their efforts. It's just that I wish they came later in development. 

Knowing that those features are coming, can we get some information about how it all works? 

Other than screenshots, I think it's important to know:

1. How do you access the ready room? Is it a separate camera mode like the LSO station?

2. Can you start the mission in the ready room? Is it a mandatory step before entering your virtual cockpit?

3. What can be shown on the main screen and aux tv screen? 

4. How many people can use the room at the same time?

5. Since we have only eight spawn points available in multiplayer, how can a squadron of ten people all use the briefing room and arm their planes at the same time?

6. Will you allow to save\load the results of the greenie board after a mission restart? 

7. Are additional LSO tweaks planned to allow for more accurate grading?

Thank you for your time.

 

 


Edited by BarTzi
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7 minutes ago, BarTzi said:

My frustration with this module comes from the priorities some features take over others.

I don't know how that is possible when we haven't listed any priorities, work gets done based on complexity and workload, because users want something so bad doesn't mean it can magically happen.

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1 hour ago, BarTzi said:

A poll is a useful way to present the wishes of the community to the devs, without the usual cycle of complaint threads that get locked by community managers every other week. Even if you don't do anything with the poll, you still end up knowing what the community thinks about the importance of some features vs the others. 

My frustration with this module comes from the priorities some features take over others. Here are some of my problems with the current state of the module:

1. There's no mission editor support for this module, which means:

a. We can't turn the carrier into the wind (via WP or ME command). I know this is planned to be tied to the airboss station, but it shouldn't be, and instead should have been a day one feature, as this is a fundamental feature of carrier ops. 

b. We can't choose spawn points / location for players or AI. This is becoming more and more annoying when you wish to populate the deck, and your AI helicopter keeps spawning inside static objects.

c. AI does not know how to takeoff properly (there's no option in the me to force them to follow the correct procedures).

2. It was released without a properly working ATC for multiplayer.

It seems like the ATC doesn't handle MP very well right now. It doesn't support any formation of planes (case 1 is a good example) and often mishandles multiple planes in case 3 (assigning the first pilot to hold at 8,000, the second pilot to 7,000 and the third pilot to 8,000 is very very common and we encounter it almost every session). Sadly, this leads a big part of the target audience of this module (virtual squadrons) to use a script instead of the SC ATC, despite your major efforts to bring us this system.

3. A very limited night ops support

We can't see the crew at night. I know that this is not an airframe module and that this is new to DCS, but this is like releasing a plane with no external lighting. We just can't see what's going on on deck. Additionally, we can't control the deck lights. Try using this module at night without NVG on deck, and see for yourself.

4. No zip lip / cyclic ops support. 

This leads to some major inaccuracies in how your ATC system works. While I expect this to never be a part of the module, it would be nice to know if it's planned \ something you think about.

5. IFLOLS inaccuracies and lack of support for other modules (F14). 

 

When the module was released at that state, I thought "there's no way they are going to keep it like that". I was 100% sure you will focus on finishing the remaining ATC features and deal with all I've said above, and only then move on to the extra features. Sadly, that hasn't happened.

From your newsletter and recent updates, it seems like the focus is on the airboss station and briefing room. It's odd to me that you try to add all of those extra features without having a fleshed out list of core (IFLOLS, ATC, ME functionality, QOL) features that work well. I might be wrong here, and all of the above might be in development and a lot more complex than what we all think, but this is what we want to hear about currently.

Having said that, both the airboss station and briefing room look good (ignoring the inaccuracies in the plat cam, and the made up names for lso grades), and I praise the devs for their efforts. It's just that I wish they came later in development. 

Knowing that those features are coming, can we get some information about how it all works? 

Other than screenshots, I think it's important to know:

1. How do you access the ready room? Is it a separate camera mode like the LSO station?

2. Can you start the mission in the ready room? Is it a mandatory step before entering your virtual cockpit?

3. What can be shown on the main screen and aux tv screen? 

4. How many people can use the room at the same time?

5. Since we have only eight spawn points available in multiplayer, how can a squadron of ten people all use the briefing room and arm their planes at the same time?

6. Will you allow to save\load the results of the greenie board after a mission restart? 

7. Are additional LSO tweaks planned to allow for more accurate grading?

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

Totaly agree with you

Perhaps ED will answer to your simply last question….unless this feature presented in the last newsletter is at the beginning of development….(remember hornet datacard)

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1 hour ago, NineLine said:

I don't know how that is possible when we haven't listed any priorities...

Its possible because you have not listed any priorities, so all priorities we can see is what you show to us, and that is so far only ready room. And I can tell you in my opinion it should be last thing ED should be concerned about. Priorities should be what @MARLAN_and @BarTzipointed out and more, You know stuff that actually matters for aircraft operation from carrier. Now, if you are in fact working on those features that is great, but would it be so hard to actually let us know you work on it? 

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7 minutes ago, Golo said:

Its possible because you have not listed any priorities, so all priorities we can see is what you show to us, and that is so far only ready room. And I can tell you in my opinion it should be last thing ED should be concerned about. Priorities should be what @MARLAN_and @BarTzipointed out and more, You know stuff that actually matters for aircraft operation from carrier. Now, if you are in fact working on those features that is great, but would it be so hard to actually let us know you work on it? 

We show you news when we are ready to share it, you may not agree with development priorities and you are welcome to your opinion, however the people who know best and have the full picture of the development tasks are our project managers. We will share more news on other features in the future but only when we are ready to. 


Thanks for your patience.

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34 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We show you news when we are ready to share it, you may not agree with development priorities and you are welcome to your opinion, however the people who know best and have the full picture of the development tasks are our project managers. We will share more news on other features in the future but only when we are ready to. 


Thanks for your patience.

Well, we're financing this project, aren't we? And thanks for your replies but seems like your customers are out of patience.

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5 minutes ago, JackCooper said:

Well, we're financing this project, aren't we? And thanks for your replies but seems like your customers are out of patience.

Without participation in early access it would be very difficult to bring the modules to you all. User purchases, reports and feedback help create these modules.
Early access is optional, if early access is to frustrating ( which it is for some and we understand that ) it maybe better to wait until full release, your purchase even after early access would be supporting us. 

thank you

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What a frustrating stance. Just look around this forum and other social media platforms for what your Customers think are priorities.

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1 minute ago, Dunx said:

What a frustrating stance. Just look around this forum and other social media platforms for what your Customers think are priorities.

Well aware of the feedback, but again the team know what are the best tasks to take on during development, customer priorities and team priorities won't always align.

thanks

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8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Without participation in early access it would be very difficult to bring the modules to you all. User purchases, reports and feedback help create these modules.
Early access is optional, if early access is to frustrating ( which it is for some and we understand that ) it maybe better to wait until full release, your purchase even after early access would be supporting us. 

thank you

I consciously joined early access and did not refund money when there was problems with release, was paitently waiting for updates, looking through patchnotes and forum for anything, but there was only empty promisses and no real "Deck" features. I am supporting project and getting this? You really think that after "thank you"-replies me or anyone else who seis that topic will have any wish to finance further early access products? Now there is a turn of an AH-64 and it beats the sale numbers so there will be new customers coming that way and same will happend to them as what happend to me?

From what I understand 'managers' have their very own "money-blinded" look on things and they didn't care on opinion of the customers, is it correct? 
Can we have way to leave early access if we are not happe with development process after two-three-four years of EA? Will it motivate development or just decrease time to put "Released" cue on product?

Thank you

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1 minute ago, JackCooper said:

I consciously joined early access and did not refund money when there was problems with release, was paitently waiting for updates, looking through patchnotes and forum for anything, but there was only empty promisses and no real "Deck" features. I am supporting project and getting this? You really think that after "thank you"-replies me or anyone else who seis that topic will have any wish to finance further early access products? Now there is a turn of an AH-64 and it beats the sale numbers so there will be new customers coming that way and same will happend to them as what happend to me?

From what I understand 'managers' have their very own "money-blinded" look on things and they didn't care on opinion of the customers, is it correct? 
Can we have way to leave early access if we are not happe with development process after two-three-four years of EA? Will it motivate development or just decrease time to put "Released" cue on product?

Thank you


I can not help that you are not happy with development, I can feedback to the team, as we have been doing from the start of the project, as I have already mentioned the project managers know what is best to focus on, you may not like that, but I can not change it. 
Everything listed in our project page for the supercarrier will be delivered, they are not empty promises as you put it. 
 

thanks

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4 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:


I can not help that you are not happy with development, I can feedback to the team, as we have been doing from the start of the project, as I have already mentioned the project managers know what is best to focus on, you may not like that, but I can not change it. 
Everything listed in our project page for the supercarrier will be delivered, they are not empty promises as you put it. 
 

thanks

So that mean no customer support in that way and if you bought something - that's your problems even if project get on-going changes. Nice.  Hornet already got cuts of features that are about to be delivered, will that happend to all EA modules or is it just one time action? How can I belive that same will not happent to SC? Cause today you telling customers that there will be a lot and tommorow that you haven't find documents or they were secret... it's not good tendency. Well, what gonna happen to people who agreed on your promises and then 'managers' changed plans from head to toe and instead of Carrier customers will get Falcon spaceship with briefing room and not working flight deck systems? 

How long will the early access take? How long did it planned? What's next steps planned after briefing room? Will greenie board take actual look and not imaginary scores? Guess it's time to have someone reply on that questions with something else, but "we're working don't interrupt us".  

I know how you love to take great letters, idk if they're fake or just made by people not knowing dcs well enogh, but now there is a real problem adressed to developers, that there is slow progress on things that can be delivered quickly and bring a lot of features to the carrier and it can be called 'complete' without briefing room, but cannot without propper Ball, LSO plat, deck and crew.  What's the real reason to prioritise what you prioritised instead of realy matter things?

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 As much as we'd like, we can't mirror everyone's personal priorities. Be this aircraft, maps, core features, or bugs. We can only prioritize based on what we believe will have the best product impact, that is feasible, and available staff and time. We certainly take customer input on this though, as evidence by roadmap voting in the past, but, there are other factors.

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3 hours ago, JackCooper said:

Well, we're financing this project, aren't we? And thanks for your replies but seems like your customers are out of patience.

*some(!) customers are out of patience!

Don‘t speak for all of us. 

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30 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

 We can only prioritize based on what we believe will have the best product impact, that is feasible, and available staff and time.

Yet the SC module, after nearly 2 years of development, hasn´t got any of the features planned, God knows the amount of time we will have to wait to get even half of them. So, or those priorities were wrongly planned, or is just that the SC module is not a priority for the team like the "main" modules.

 

Quote

 

During the early access period, the following additional features will be added:

  • Air Boss station.
  • Briefing room.
  • Occupy the Landing Signal Officer (LSO) station with PLAT camera, including VR support.
  • More LSO station interactions.
  • Combined Arms integration.
  • "Burble" effect.
  • Wave off and bolter return to pattern radio messages.
  • Functional barricade net.

 

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4 minutes ago, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

 

Yet the SC module, after nearly 2 years of development, hasn´t got any of the features planned, God knows the amount of time we will have to wait to get even half of them. So, or those priorities were wrongly planned, or is just that the SC module is not a priority for the team like the "main" modules.

 

A lot of time and resources have gone into the supercarrier, when the team is ready to release the new content they will. None of it is being ignored. 

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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

A lot of time and resources have gone into the supercarrier, when the team is ready to release the new content they will. None of it is being ignored. 

So i understand that you don’t know when this « briefing room » feature will be ready for players ? It’s only a screenshot to calm the players ?

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5 minutes ago, hanab said:

So i understand that you don’t know when this « briefing room » feature will be ready for players ? It’s only a screenshot to calm the players ?

We shared our progress in a report, when we are ready for it to go public it will be in the changelog. 
 

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