Jump to content

ATC Approach Mode


Pieterras

Recommended Posts

@Wags 

The new implemented Feature ATC Approach mode is not working appropriately. 

When in Unaccelerated AND Level flight in landing configuration the Throttles close as soon as ATC is engaged... 
No need to provide a track file as every bit of common sense can see that that isn't correct.. 

if (ATC == 1) {
cut throttle()
}
ED code


Equally the throttles should make more slower gradual movements instead of excessive unless you're doing something extreme.. 

Cheers 
 


Edited by Pieterras
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although i've only watched it once, I thought Wags video stated that this would happen when initialised and then they would throttle up and settle to how they should be?

I havent tried it myself yet though.


Edited by parxuk

Intel i7 8700K @ 5Ghz, Aorus Z370 Gaming5, 32GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3000MHz, Nvidia 3080Ti FE, Samsung 970 NVME, Samsung 512GB EVO SSD x 2, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Rudder Pedals, HP Reverb G2, Windows 11 x64, DCS Modules = FC3, A10c Warthog, F14 Tomcat, F18 Hornet, F16 Viper, Persian Gulf, Syria.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Pieterras said:

@Wags 

The new implemented Feature ATC Approach mode is not working appropriately. 

When in Unaccelerated AND Level flight in landing configuration the Throttles close as soon as ATC is engaged... 
No need to provide a track file as every bit of common sense can see that that isn't correct.. 

if (ATC == 1) {
cut throttle()
}
ED code


Equally the throttles should make more slower gradual movements instead of excessive unless you're doing something extreme.. 

Cheers 
 

 

You should post a track because it seems like you are not using it correctly. No problams on my end.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, IvanK said:

I agree 100% with Pieterras comment on ATC implementation.

Based on what? According to NATOPS the throttles are back driven when either mode is engaged THEN moved to capture mach in cruise or on speed in approach mode respectively.

So in other words power is cut and brought back when the button first gets pressed.


Edited by Wizard_03
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gave it a quick test on my way back from a mission... it's way behind the curve. Too slow, regardless whether it was activated when on speed or at 220 kts. 

After initial power down to flt idle (it shouldn't do this when the jet is on speed) it took too long to capture the proper AOA again. When I engaged ATC at 220 kts, the power to idle was no reason to worry but when onspeed AOA crept up, the power didn't catch it in timely manner and since I was already at 1200 ft. my butt 'tightened up' a little when I saw the VV dip way too much.

I can anticipate and do corrections manually a lot better. It needs to be tweaked... in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Based on what? According to NATOPS the throttles are back driven when either mode is engaged THEN moved to capture mach in cruise or on speed in approach mode respectively.

So in other words power is cut and brought back when the button first gets pressed.

Based on Real life experience.

Yes backdriven ... just slightly but not a reduction of 13% N2 followed by gross overswings.

2 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Based on what? According to NATOPS the throttles are back driven when either mode is engaged THEN moved to capture mach in cruise or on speed in approach mode respectively.

So in other words power is cut and brought back when the button first gets pressed.

 

I wouldn't like to sit in an airplane and use it's auto-throttle if it'd first go to flight idle, no matter what. 😛 It just goes against common sense, especially in an approach mode. Even the  old analogue ATs I've seen (TU-134/154) didn't do that, let alone the digital ones (based on my experience as a flight engineer in my young days).

I'm not a Hornet guy, but Pieterras represents the opinion of a bunch of IRL pilots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, pete_auau said:

tried it for the first time and  everything  worked to plan no issues at all, found it  alot  easier  than  using  manual  controls of  throttles 🙂

It doesn’t work fine, as your throttles shouldn’t close when engaging ATC. They should zero out, meaning getting rid of, different thrust imbalance, making sure each engine gives the same output. It doesn’t mean to go idle. 

7 hours ago, Gripes323 said:

I gave it a quick test on my way back from a mission... it's way behind the curve. Too slow, regardless whether it was activated when on speed or at 220 kts. 

After initial power down to flt idle (it shouldn't do this when the jet is on speed) it took too long to capture the proper AOA again. When I engaged ATC at 220 kts, the power to idle was no reason to worry but when onspeed AOA crept up, the power didn't catch it in timely manner and since I was already at 1200 ft. my butt 'tightened up' a little when I saw the VV dip way too much.

I can anticipate and do corrections manually a lot better. It needs to be tweaked... in my opinion.

Thanks, for confirming


Edited by Pieterras
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Pieterras said:

It doesn’t work fine, as your throttles shouldn’t close when engaging ATC. They should zero out, meaning getting rid of, different thrust imbalance, making sure each engine gives the same output. It doesn’t mean to go idle. 

 

maybe  but  it got  the  job  done is what matters 🙂


Edited by pete_auau
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Based on what? According to NATOPS the throttles are back driven when either mode is engaged THEN moved to capture mach in cruise or on speed in approach mode respectively.

So in other words power is cut and brought back when the button first gets pressed.

 

Based on flying myself, and being very aware of the dangers involved with unwanted thrust reductions 

And confirmation of about 3/4 current and ex hornet drivers. I rarely moan agains ED’s implementations however this time they are off. 
backdriven and closing are 2 very different things. The backdriving is to 0 out thrust imbalance and should hardly be noticeable when being ON-speed in level flight. 
 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@BIGNEWY @Wags

He both... 

Would you be able to reiterate where the correct as is comes from? 

I know Matt has been in contact with a real life hornet pilot to work on the correct implementation of the system. However the thrust reduction on ATC engagement has not been confirmed by any real life hornet pilot, equally would cause a very undesirable state of energy for the aircraft. It would counteract its workload reduction capability, by temporarily causing a severely unwanted energy state.  

During manual operation of the throttles, pneumatic throttle boost actuators powered by environmental control system (ECS) air reduce the force required to move the throttles. During automatic throttle control (ATC) operation, the pneumatic boost actuators are disengaged. For this to happen the ECS air to the torque boosters is shut off, the throttles are initially backdriven by the build in servo's. 

A backdrive is a component used in reverse to obtain its input from its output. 


I therefore kindly ask whether it would be possible not to just close this toppic by saying "correct as is" however please contact the sources used. (And knowing the source myself, He will be very keen to confirm correct or incorrect implementation of the system). Equally I could deliver multiple sources that would love to do the same. 

Regards, 



 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Wags changed the title to ATC Approach Mode
44 minutes ago, AG-51_Razor said:

Maybe IvanK can comment on this but I have been given to understand that IRL the legacy Hornet drivers used this "feature" very rarely. Maybe that is because, if true, the ATC didn't work worth a damn ??

Irl. It was and is used for Case I II and III,,, it is however not a Case III or ACLS, specific function.. also not every pilot was allowed to use it, as a certain level of experience was required for it to be used... 
Having spoken to a few of them today and yesterday. The system was and is still working very well, and guidance on how the system is to be used is written in NATOPS.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience was all land based. For us we actually used power as the primary control of AOA down final rather than the NAVY method of using pitch. As such our everyday technique in manual thrust was the same as is required in ATC mode.. Pitch for flight path and power for AOA. How many times was ATC used in approach mode ? A personal thing as nothing was mandated based on recovery conditions. In my case probably on about 25% of instrument approaches ...ILS/GCA/TAC/VOR. Having said that if I was shooting an approach to no shit minimas I would not hesitate using ATC.

Used correctly ATC approach mode was smooth and very accurate. The typical pitch corrections you make on an instrument final were easily handled by the ATC.

Another snippet ATC cruise mode actually refrences TAS not IAS at time of selection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...