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FPS Lost after DCS 2.7.7.14727 patch


Miro

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36 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

 

Although i still wonder how one can see an fps loss on a track if it is played on another computer.

Because, that's not what it is about. Because to determine, why SOME people are experiencing deteriorating performance and others don't, there have to be a trigger.

Be it a certain combination of hardware or settings or other variables. It's about finding a pattern. This is how empiric analysis works.

Anecdotic reports are not a valid method on any kind of research.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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46 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

see an fps loss on a track

The track will contain your graphic settings as well as allows ED to test your scenario against various builds.

I have seen no performance loss. And for the 8 people I fly with, only 1 has seen performance loss. So it is not a common occurrence.


Edited by AdrianL
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51 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

@BIGNEWY This is nothing but another pitch of a wild guess/idea:

One thing to notice in the provided screenshots by Lange_666 is that there is obviously a difference in core usage of the cpu. May it be, that there has been updates/changes introduced (either by microsoft or by the game core) regarding core-scheduling? As far as I learned, the approach to core/thread-handling in win11 is supposed to be the culprit for the sub par performance of certain cpus. May it be, that a similar (or even connected) problem leads to the issue at hand?

Underusage of GPU and seemingly more load on cpu cores seem to a repeating pattern....


Edited by Hiob

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2 minutes ago, Hiob said:

@BIGNEWY This is nothing but another pitch of a wild guess/idea:

One thing to notice in the provided screenshots by Lange_666 is that there is obviously a difference in core usage of the cpu. May it be, that there has been updates/changes introduced (either by microsoft or by the game core) regarding core-scheduling? As far as I learned, the approach to core/thread-handling in win11 is supposed to be the culprit for the sub par performance of certain cpus. May it be, that a similar (or even connected) problem leads to the issue at hand?

Underusage of GPU and seemingly more load on cpu cores seem to a repeating pattern....

 

certainly worth asking the team, I will let you know if I find anything. 

thanks

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21 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

The track will contain your graphic settings as well as allows ED to test your scenario against various builds.

I have seen no performance loss. And for the 8 people I fly with, only 1 has seen performance loss. So it is not a common occurrence.

 

I suspect that everyone has drops, and only those people who are on the limit of performance can see, like me, all on ultra, sliders to the right except for shadows on the GTX 1080. I can see every frame that escapes me.

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19 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

certainly worth asking the team, I will let you know if I find anything.

Cool! 👍

In the meantime, those who are effected by the fps loss, could try to lock the DCS-App to certain cores (via the task-manager). Best practice would be two cores on the same die.

There are tools, to determine which are the best cores on your cpu.

grafik.png

 

6 minutes ago, Miro said:

I suspect that everyone has drops, and only those people who are on the limit of performance can see, like me, all on ultra, sliders to the right except for shadows on the GTX 1080. I can see every frame that escapes me.

No, as provided earlier, with a controled repeatable benchmark scene (which I've provided), I get the exact same FPS as I did before the patch. Sorry.

Unless you have capped your fps by some means, everybody is on the edge of performance for his given settings....


Edited by Hiob

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5 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Cool! 👍

In the meantime, those who are effected by the fps loss, could try to lock the DCS-App to certain cores (via the task-manager). Best practice would be two cores on the same die.

There are tools, to determine which are the best cores on your cpu.

In my case, the graphics card clogs up, wear reaches 100% and frames drop down. In previous patches (the working ones) it didn't get clogged. If the DCS had changed graphically, it would have been understandable, but nothing has changed, except for water, the reduction of which to low does almost nothing.

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1 minute ago, Miro said:

In my case, the graphics card clogs up, wear reaches 100% and frames drop down. In previous patches (the working ones) it didn't get clogged. If the DCS had changed graphically, it would have been understandable, but nothing has changed, except for water, the reduction of which to low does almost nothing.

Never claimed, that the idea, is A or even THE ultimate solution. Just another try to help find the root of the problem.

There can always be several bottlenecks.

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Could please someone who has absolutely no FPS loss post some data, like dxdiag, graphical settings, trackfiles - so that we have something to compare with?

😀

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2 hours ago, Hiob said:

One thing to notice in the provided screenshots by Lange_666 is that there is obviously a difference in core usage of the cpu. May it be, that there has been updates/changes introduced (either by microsoft or by the game core) regarding core-scheduling? As far as I learned, the approach to core/thread-handling in win11 is supposed to be the culprit for the sub par performance of certain cpus. May it be, that a similar (or even connected) problem leads to the issue at hand?

Underusage of GPU and seemingly more load on cpu cores seem to a repeating pattern....

Just ran a CPU core test, it jumps between each of them, stable and open beta. I still run Win 10 (no joy in upgrading to Win 11 with my system, i don't pass the tests).

Mission: Instant action: F-16C: Free Flight: Caucasus, exact same settings in both.
(VSync + FPS limiter off which i normally have on and set to 60  to let the FPS "fly" un-restrictedly).
Waited until the mission text in the upper right corner vanished. Then took 3 shots within the minute, +/- around the same time in the mission, same terrain same clouds.

Stable 2.7.6.:

 Stable_1.png Stable_3.png  Stable_4.png

 

Open Beta 2.7.7.

OB_1.png OB_3.png OB_4.png


Edited by Lange_666
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This looks like a really serious problem in DCS. 20 percent difference is quite a lot.

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42 minutes ago, Limaro said:

Could please someone who has absolutely no FPS loss post some data, like dxdiag, graphical settings, trackfiles - so that we have something to compare with?

😀

I did, here - 4K, custom high settings, in Marianas, Trackfile included. No diag-files, though. The result was, exactly the same performance as before the patch. I doubt, that it is of real benefit though. My Specs are Ryzen 5900x, 64 GB 3600 Ram, Gigabyte RTX3080. I will try to provide the diag files, when I find the time.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/269510-dcs-27-detailed-4k-benchmark-with-settings-new-scene-for-marianas/page/2/#comment-4807505

 

@Lange_666

Could you try to force DCS to (two) certain cores (on a single die, if you have a multi-die cpu) and see if it gives you any results?

Edit: Just seen your Specs - I have to admit, that this particular point does apply more to multi-die ryzen cpus. Really don't know if it makes ANY difference for an i7. But no harm in trying.


Edited by Hiob
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46 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

As I understand it. There are two types of cores in Intel. Performance core and efficiency core. Performance cores are 0,2,4, etc.. Efficiency cores are 1,3,5,etc.. 

Limit DCS to performance cores, and see if that improves. But I doubt it. I don't think DCS is multithreaded. Most of FPS comes from GPU.

 

No, I think that only applies to the latest (12th) generation. In previous Intel generations all cores should be equal. You need to differentiate between physical cores and threads, though.

The task manager will show 8 cpus for a 4-core cpu. Usually the even numbers (0,2,4 etc) are the physical cores and the odd numbers are only logical threads.

(The underlaying tech is "hyperthreading" (smt), introduced with Pentium 4 and basically standard by today)


Edited by Hiob
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45 minutes ago, Hiob said:

No, I think that only applies to the latest (12th) generation. In previous Intel generations all cores should be equal. You need to differentiate between physical cores and threads, though.

The task manager will show 8 cpus for a 4-core cpu. Usually the even numbers (0,2,4 etc) are the physical cores and the odd numbers are only logical threads.

(The underlaying tech is "hyperthreading" (smt), introduced with Pentium 4 and basically standard by today)

 

You are right. I meant to say Performance Core and Efficiency THread. Core is physical and is assigned to threads 0,2,4, etc..  Why efficiency threads are 1,3,5,etc..

 

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3 hours ago, Hiob said:

@Lange_666

Could you try to force DCS to (two) certain cores (on a single die, if you have a multi-die cpu) and see if it gives you any results?

Edit: Just seen your Specs - I have to admit, that this particular point does apply more to multi-die ryzen cpus. Really don't know if it makes ANY difference for an i7. But no harm in trying.

Result is the same, just more CPU usage on the cores used and less on the not used cores.
Feels overall a bit less smooth, maybe because the cores now run close to max usage (on some moments they went op to 98-99%).

OB 2.7.7:

All cores (Hyperthreading OFF)

OB_1.png

 

2 cores (0 and 2 in the shot below = CPU 1 and 3 but test with cores 1 and 3 (CPU 2 and 4) was the same), Hyperthreading OFF

image.png

 

Result with Stable 2.7.6. was also the same, all or only 2 cores same result, but better FPS compared to OB (see post a bit up):

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I still have my old rig standing by - it's quite similar to yours (4790K, 1080ti, 16GB Ram).

If it's still running, I could try to reproduce your results. Could be interesting.

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So I Just did the F16 free flight cauc mission as well, and watched the cpu usage, now I don't have any way to compare to previous but I am seeing the cpu up to 80% 90% and some times more, then it drops to literally no usage.  I used Process lasso to set dcs to all physical cores on my I7 8700k that is overclocked to 5.0ghz.

 

Took screens but the overlay from msi afterburner didnt show on screens of course...  

 

Also to note 1080ti pegged at 99% the whole time granted did it in 2d on my 4k screen.

 

Just a side thought, but as the multi threading was in news recently and most stuff done for it, I wonder if some elements are now Multithreading from these recent updates?  Saw high usage spread over all physical cores in above test.


Edited by Enduro14

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15 minutes ago, felipesm said:

I am starting to believe that you(ED team)are being negligent about this issue. It is not possible didn't have identified the problem until now. (After two weeks and two updates). 

 

Oh lord, really? 13 Posts in this Forum and you're already spreading senseless allegations? What is this supposed to achieve, other than spreading a bad mood?

I'm so sick of complainers like you!

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15 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

So I Just did the F16 free flight cauc mission as well, and watched the cpu usage, now I don't have any way to compare to previous but I am seeing the cpu up to 80% 90% and some times more, then it drops to literally no usage.  I used Process lasso to set dcs to all physical cores on my I7 8700k that is overclocked to 5.0ghz.

 

Took screens but the overlay from msi afterburner didnt show on screens of course...  

 

Also to note 1080ti pegged at 99% the whole time granted did it in 2d on my 4k screen.

 

Just a side thought, but as the multi threading was in news recently and most stuff done for it, I wonder if some elements are now Multithreading from these recent updates?  Saw high usage spread over all physical cores in above test.

 

From my experience, that is high on the list of absolute worst map/missions to fly. I think it's mostly the application of whatever cloud preset it uses.

Worst jaggedy edged, bouncy clouds in DCS.

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But for a test like this it doesn't matter what mission/map/airplane is used.
I'm seeing the same thing with other aircraft/maps/missions only with (obvious) different FPS values.

Win11 Pro 64-bit, Ryzen 5800X3D, Corsair H115i, Gigabyte X570S UD, EVGA 3080Ti XC3 Ultra 12GB, 64 GB DDR4 G.Skill 3600. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base, MFG Crosswind combat pedals, TrackIR4, Rift-S.

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The number of svchost.exe's is just showing how many background processes are running. I'm not saying, that the above approach isn't beneficial, but you should de-bloat your OS anyway to optimize performance.

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3 minutes ago, Hiob said:

The number of svchost.exe's is just showing how many background processes are running. I'm not saying, that the above approach isn't beneficial, but you should de-bloat your OS anyway to optimize performance.

True its certainly debloated but seemed like an improvement but vr is still not there pre patch neither is 2d.  

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