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FPS Lost after DCS 2.7.7.14727 patch


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On 11/8/2021 at 4:39 PM, SMH said:

Same. Used to see about 45 FPS when looking straight up at empty sky. Now get less than 30. (Suspect it's poorly optimized textures. My GPU only has 4 GB VRAM. Everything was fine before the October updates though.)

This is in all maps but Marianas is even worse. 

I'm in the same boat, running on 1050 ti

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Left-CTRL + Pause works fine here.

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38 minutes ago, THERION said:

It's actually RCtrl + Pause for me...

Same

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4 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

but, in truth, if you follow the tread through Its pretty clear there are very few who can a) do as requested and b) remain focussed on the actual issue without wandering off into lilly la la land. Myself included. 

 

This is true.
But since Flappie could reproduce it, and the bug got the state reported, I guess many think, that it does not worth to find additional parameters anymore.

But this may be also wrong and a question to @BIGNEWY or @Flappie. Is ED still "collecting data" for that problem? I am refering to this, where you asked everyone to create a topic for each ones specific problem/circumstances (Link)

Btw.: I've also tried the shader cache size from NVIdia Control Panel, but this has influence i could measure.

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:31 PM, archer86 said:

Ed should fix that issue, the problem is definite, game is not same as before.  Why are we still trying to prove something?  Our hardwares and game settings are same, only one thing has changed "the 2.7.7 update".  This is the evidence.

 

Agree! I have lost 7 FPS (with VR) in my "test bench" (Mission Qualification - Super Cold start).  Before it was 43 FPS and now 36 FPS 1 min 40 s from beginning. The worstest frametimes are both 24 - 27 ms. 

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1 hour ago, golani79 said:

Was using rctrl + pause but it isnt working anymore for me.

Should have mentioned it before - sorry.

So for you this key combination still works?

Gonna try this - thx!

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2 hours ago, Limaro said:

But this may be also wrong and a question to @BIGNEWY or @Flappie. Is ED still "collecting data" for that problem? I am refering to this, where you asked everyone to create a topic for each ones specific problem/circumstances

When an issue is ongoing, ED devs welcome new data until the source of the issue is found.

In this case, we need to understand why some people cannot replicate the performance issue, while others can. It could be an installed module, a mod, a DCS setting, a specific graphic driver version, a Windows KB, or something else.

I'll try renaming my Saved Games/DCS folder and see if it works for me.

EDIT: After a quick test: a "virgin" Saved Games/DCS folder does not change anything on my end. I still lose 10 to 15% FPS over Caucasus.


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Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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26 minutes ago, Flappie said:

When an issue is ongoing, ED devs welcome new data until the source of the issue is found.

In this case, we need to understand why some people cannot replicate the performance issue, while others can. It could be an installed module, a mod, a DCS setting, a specific graphic driver version, a Windows KB, or something else.

I'll try renaming my Saved Games/DCS folder and see if it works for me.

EDIT: After a quick test: a "virgin" Saved Games/DCS folder does not change anything on my end. I still lose 10 to 15% FPS over Caucasus.

 

can i aks your system specs and resolution/msaa/ssaa?

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16 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

You aren’t comparing like for like, the Mariana’s is hugely more performance impacting than say the caucuses… whilst I agree it’s not a great experience on the Marianas.  It’s not really fair to expect the same perf on a new map as an old one.

that said, performance has also decreased on older maps as well.

DX11/12 performance has decreased by 40% or more, going by FPS, in control missions.

With same setting Mirage 2000-C Instant action/Nevada/Ground Attack in 2.5.5 gave average FPS of 150-180 on my rig. 

Same hardware, but Windows 10 Pro updated to latest, Nvidia drivers at 472.39, and DCS 2.7.7.15038 , same mission gives 90-120, with 96-100 being average range. That is a significant hit. My clouds are either low or standard. Water is Medium, which is not really a factor in Nevada. Every other setting is same. 

I cleaned up my Windows, and frugal about what is installed. I periodically run Unity GPU Stress Test, and Unigine Superposition to check FPS performance. That has remained same with 5-7 FPS drop, which is within error. These are absolute FPS, not percentage. 

DCS has gotten fatter and slower. Between September of 2019 (when I got my current rig) and October of 2021, DCS performance has fallen off a cliff. A decrease of 40% perhaps more. This is terrible.

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DX11/12 performance has decreased by 40% or more, going by FPS, in control missions.
With same setting Mirage 2000-C Instant action/Nevada/Ground Attack in 2.5.5 gave average FPS of 150-180 on my rig. 
Same hardware, but Windows 10 Pro updated to latest, Nvidia drivers at 472.39, and DCS 2.7.7.15038 , same mission gives 90-120, with 96-100 being average range. That is a significant hit. My clouds are either low or standard. Water is Medium, which is not really a factor in Nevada. Every other setting is same. 
I cleaned up my Windows, and frugal about what is installed. I periodically run Unity GPU Stress Test, and Unigine Superposition to check FPS performance. That has remained same with 5-7 FPS drop, which is within error. These are absolute FPS, not percentage. 
DCS has gotten fatter and slower. Between September of 2019 (when I got my current rig) and October of 2021, DCS performance has fallen off a cliff. A decrease of 40% perhaps more. This is terrible.
I agree here.
Performance has been going down the slow gradually but the last openbeta update induced a really big hit on my FPS.

VR ( the only mode I want to fly all my flightsims) is a no fun for me now in dcs until I am able to somehow do some hardware upgrade.

The fact that this fps hit is not replicated in all system make this very dodgy to deal with.

I do hope the real issue is identified soon.


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7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

DX11/12 performance has decreased by 40% or more, going by FPS, in control missions.

With same setting Mirage 2000-C Instant action/Nevada/Ground Attack in 2.5.5 gave average FPS of 150-180 on my rig. 

Same hardware, but Windows 10 Pro updated to latest, Nvidia drivers at 472.39, and DCS 2.7.7.15038 , same mission gives 90-120, with 96-100 being average range. That is a significant hit. My clouds are either low or standard. Water is Medium, which is not really a factor in Nevada. Every other setting is same. 

I cleaned up my Windows, and frugal about what is installed. I periodically run Unity GPU Stress Test, and Unigine Superposition to check FPS performance. That has remained same with 5-7 FPS drop, which is within error. These are absolute FPS, not percentage. 

DCS has gotten fatter and slower. Between September of 2019 (when I got my current rig) and October of 2021, DCS performance has fallen off a cliff. A decrease of 40% perhaps more. This is terrible.

And I agree as well, but not with your original comparison .

14 minutes ago, Eaglewings said:



The fact that this fps hit is not replicated in all system make this very dodgy to deal with.

I do hope the real issue is identified soon.


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yes that makes it very tricky

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@Flappie though Ig go straight to the man who knows on this one... 

It appears im going to have consideraby more time and my hands over the next few days or weeks than I thought I had a 6 o'clock this morning.....

Is there a way to download the stable then roll it back to 2.7.6 without 2.7.6 ever having been a part of it. I have lost my original install by stupidily moving it onto a on SSD during my pc upgrade which has now fubar'd iself (I may have helped it a little by standing on it). 

If there is I can go from the start on both OB and Stable, map by map, module by module perhaps then conbination of such perhaps

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17 minutes ago, Boosterdog said:

@Flappie though Ig go straight to the man who knows on this one... 

It appears im going to have consideraby more time and my hands over the next few days or weeks than I thought I had a 6 o'clock this morning.....

Is there a way to download the stable then roll it back to 2.7.6 without 2.7.6 ever having been a part of it. I have lost my original install by stupidily moving it onto a on SSD during my pc upgrade which has now fubar'd iself (I may have helped it a little by standing on it). 

If there is I can go from the start on both OB and Stable, map by map, module by module perhaps then conbination of such perhaps

Download the web-installer from the homepage. Install it and then stop it from installing the game and exit. Go to the dcs-directory it created and run the dcs updater  exe with the follwing parameter "updater.exe update version-number". E.g. "DCS_updater.exe update 2.7.6.13436" for last stable

You can copy and paste the desired version number from the changelog. Go to the english verion of the website, the other languages are not up to date sometimes.

Edit: I don't know, what happened when you try this from an existing installation. Probably works too. But to be sure to have a "clean" install, I'd uninstall/delete everything dcs-related beforehand...


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1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

And I agree as well, but not with your original comparison .

yes that makes it very tricky

Its not tricky. Its ED shader code and scene management. People saying that 2.7.7 water shaders are slow and clouds are little better, and they may be right. Place a single Harrier low over water over Pacific far away from land, in Marianas. Nothing else user place able in theater. It should scream at way above 120 FPS with systems with RTX 20XX. Above 200, and max out at 240 FPS, with RTX 30XX with reasonable settings that do not include any antialiasing, motion blur, and DOF. With system at 2560X1440 1 screen max view.  Yet we do not get that performance with systems where GPU is in PCIe Gen 3 X 16, and high end CPUs at 3.7Ghz and higher with DDR4 RAM.  We know that DCS can, becouse DCS did in 2.5.5 and 2.5.6.

I attached a medium scene weight mission. Bunch of statics far away at AFB. Few statics at Pagan strip, where AV8B mission starts. Some blue SAMs. Few red units. At start , when in in Harrier pit on ground, FPS is in 40's. If start in UH-1H pit parked at GUAM, FPS is in 30's. This is not playable. This absolutely sucks. Even switching to 1080P does not help. You will need to have either AV-8B or UH-1H or both. 

Here the thing. I am an avid flight simmer, but not avid gamer. I do not care for your standard 1 person shooter or 3rd person running around games. When I test with Unigine, and I set it to extreme settings, and wonder around their test 3D world, I get what I consider low FPS 40-60 FPS, and with 1080P and 1440P High I get 80-100. Panning around, stopping, inspecting things, picking things up, reading poster art work, does not require high FPS. Even at 60 and down to 50, game feels nice and smooth, and art is enjoyable. Becouse , even with Doom type, zombie shooters, you are not always moving. In 1PS game, your direction of motion is your direction of sight. But flight sims is different. Where you are looking is often different then where you are going. In flight you are always moving, and high FPS, allow very fine controls, that is unavailable in low FPS environment. I did not learn how to in-flight refuel Harrier until DCS got above 90 FPS. Because at lower then 60 FPS, even tiny control motions translate to larger the realistic reaction, and updates are slow. Resulting in drogue and own probe, dancing. But with FPS above 90 and at 120. OMG! It is so much easier to learn, because feedback is so precise. So higher FPS, raise player skill in flight sims lie DCS. High FPS is vital. Ideally FPS should be equal to refresh rate of monitor and never lower then 90. On 60Hz refresh screens, FPS should be 120, but never lower then 60 in worst case. On gaming monitors of 120hz refresh rate or higher, FPS should be equal to refresh rate, and never lower then 1/2 refresh rate. I run 144hz refresh rate panels. For me optimum FPS is 144. New panels on market have 175, 240, and few even have 360. That's probably way too high of an overkill. But a DCS on 240hz panel running at consistent 1/2 refresh rate of 120FPS, would be phenomenally amazing .  IMHO 2560X1440 @ 144hz refresh rate is optimum for DCS given capability of RTX 20XX and RTX 30XX series. I dont know about 6800XT and 6900XT . But with RTX GPU;s effectively off the market, maybe its time to look AMD XT GPU. That sucks, becouse unless I choose to forego GPU 3D rendering on my home machine, RTX is the only game in town. All the GPU renderers on market, Redshift, Vray, PRMAN XPU, Arnold, all require CUDA. Acceleration of OpenCL in Maya and Houdini, and GPU assisted rendering in NUKE all require CUDA. Sucks there is no open source CL that is CUDA independent that is available on market. THere are proprietary options in universities and labs, but not on market. But with cryptominers and EBay scalpers hogging the RTX product, and none in stores, what choice is there. I wont buy from a Ebay scammer. Best Buy has nothing, everything is sold out. MicroCenter has a bunch of expensive 6900XT and severely overprices RTXA professional GPUs, that are actually slower then gaming GPUs and 3X the price.

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1 hour ago, Hiob said:

 

Time to ground your expectations, I'd say.

 

That's not helpful at all. It's borderline disrespectful and didn't need to be said. I'm happy that the sim is running great for you. For many of us, this is the only "game" in town and for a lot of us this hobby is a passion, one which unfortunately we can experience only through DCS World.

Put yourself in our shoes? How would you feel if tomorrow your favorite hobby was no longer available to you, despite the fact that you spent thousands of dollars on it. Poof. Gone. No longer playable. I've refrained from commenting on here, since I have nothing useful to add to the discussion. Either ED fixes their performance, or they don't. But there is no need to be disparaging to people who are rightfully disappointed. 

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1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Its not tricky.... <SNIP>  

You have a lot of frustration, you seem to fail to realise that we are agreeing, performance is unacceptable on Marianas... and performance is degrading across the board. 

Where we disagree, is comparing Marianas with earlier maps is reasonable and   that it is simple to repro, if you and i both have poor performance, it still means very little until the developer actually experiences the same problem , because until they understand what exactly is causing the performance issues that we are having... they can't fix it. 

A problem has been identified and they are going to look at it and then we will see...

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19 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

That's not helpful at all. It's borderline disrespectful and didn't need to be said. I'm happy that the sim is running great for you. For many of us, this is the only "game" in town and for a lot of us this hobby is a passion, one which unfortunately we can experience only through DCS World.

Put yourself in our shoes? How would you feel if tomorrow your favorite hobby was no longer available to you, despite the fact that you spent thousands of dollars on it. Poof. Gone. No longer playable. I've refrained from commenting on here, since I have nothing useful to add to the discussion. Either ED fixes their performance, or they don't. But there is no need to be disparaging to people who are rightfully disappointed. 

Have you even read what he wrote? I am as happy with everybody else with every single fps I can get out of DCS. What do you think I'm engaging in the matter, trying to figure out where the problem lays. But throwing around those numbers above is far from helpful. Yeah, I'd like 200+ FPS in DCS, too, but that is simply not state of the tech.

Comparing your FPS before and after Patches and expecting no performance decrease (or an increase at best) is absolutely OK! But how does wishful thinking a la "DCS should deliver 144 FPS in all circumstances" help with the problem at hand exactly?

Btw. that a flight sim needs more FPS than a 1P-Shooter to be playable is a very special opinion.


Edited by Hiob

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VR not only needs to run at fast FPS of 120 or above, the FPS needs to constant. Never faster, never slower. So DCS or game engine is always monitoring FPS, and keeps at constant. If not, VR makes people ill. I tried VR with DCS and Xplane. THere was insufficient peripheral vision, IMHO. The HOTAS felt weird, becouse X56 HOTAS is not like any depicted HOTAS in F/A-18C, A-10CII, and AV-8B/NA, or any helicopters. The muscle memory works but everything feels odd. Becouse your real world wrist and fingers are doing motions not replicated by VR pilot. I did not have haptic gloves, so being cut off from seeing keyboard and my real HOTAS was disorienting. Perhaps its something one has to get used to.  But sitting in normal chair, not ejection seat, messes with one's spatial perceptions.   The headset was Varjo XR3, which visually was stunning, except the peripheral angle. This was a loaner from distributor, so I only got 3 hours of use.  Is it normal to have kind of subtle slight gradation to black on peripheral vision when wearing those sets? Felt that there was a need to keep one's eyes fixed at center, and move head. If I kept head still, and turned eyes only, I would get that soft edge on limits of my peripheral vision.

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I VR at 60 Hz and 30 FPS. I got used to the "flicker" after 2 days and never felt ill.

Although, I cannot run missions...

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On 11/5/2021 at 1:03 PM, BIGNEWY said:

At this point this thread is not useful,

That was five pages and 5 days ago and still guff upon guff is being posted, bloating the thread even further for absolutely zero point and potentially loosing appropriate posts in the noise.. If you want 6000 fps in 4K VR, shove it in the wishlist section instead of screwing up a legit bug thread with utter nonsense and steams of conciousness. Sorry to be plain but 12 of the 21 pages in this thread are filled with garbage no even realted to the OP.

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