Pagan Airstrip

[Magnum]

I really like the idea of using Pagan airstrip as a strategic area on Marianas, but it's tough to do as it doesn't behave as a typical airdome. Granted, it lacks any ATC or other services as it's very remote, but i think can be done if farp assets could be used as ground units instead of static objects. 

Farps work as intended for both coalitions as shown in the attached Farp1.miz and Farp2.miz, however, things get wonky if you try to place farp assets from both coalitions there at the same time as shown in Farp3.miz.

Sadly, if you destroy these static objects, there is no way to respawn them into the mission but as ground units you'd be able to spawn these assets as needed and whichever side controls Pagan can utilize it.

Farp1.miz Farp2.miz Farp3.miz

[Northstar98]

I guess what we need is the ability to capture FARPs.

[twistking]

for this particular problem i think it would be best, if they just added ground service and parking to the airstrip. mission designers can always limit ammo and fuel supplies, if they want to limit the effectivness of the airstrip...

[twistking]

Pagan airstrip is really cool. It has a working ski-jump when you take of to the east and with some skill (and light loadouts) you can operate A-10Cs from there.

Why is it though, that you cannot use any airport ground service? You cannot utilize the ramp/parking spot although they are clearly marked on the map. They won't accept any type of aircraft.

Would it please be possible to make it function like the small airstrips on PG and Nevada f.e., where they have no ATC but still offer ground service (if on your coalition) and have proper spawnpoints without needing to utilize "start on ground".

 

[twistking]

there is another airstrip in the south-west (if i remember correctly) of guam. there it is the same issue of having parking spots denoted on the map, but no way to spawn any ac.

@NineLine: do you know what's up with these marianas airstrips? is it a deliberate decision to have those non-functional? is it WIP? a bug?

i don't see any disadvantages in having them spawnable and letting players get ground service at these. AI will surely have trouble landing and taking of from these with certain aircraft, but that should be no different than on those smaller airfields on PG or Nevada... also mission builders can easily avoid those problems...

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by twistking

[Minsky]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

is it a deliberate decision to have those non-functional?

I've been given this explanation. It's not from ED, but it could give you some insight into their logic.

I don't think either of these airfields ever officially "existed" in real world (with published charts, ICAO codes, etc).

The fact that some piece of ground is used for takeoff and landing doesn't make it a "proper" airfield.

If anything, this gives ED a valid excuse not to bother.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Minsky

[twistking]

42 minutes ago, Minsky said:

I've been given this explanation. It's not from ED, but it could give you some insight into their logic.

I don't think either of these airfields ever officially "existed" in real world (with published charts, ICAO codes, etc).

The fact that some piece of ground is used for takeoff and landing doesn't make it a "proper" airfield.

If anything, this gives ED a valid excuse not to bother.

 

Yes, i kinda get that from that perspective, but for me it does not make sense everything considered. For gameplay it would be better to have those working (especially Pagan that is) and making them work shouldn't be big of a task (and - for teh record - they could still be inofficial strips without atc - so it shouldn't destroy anyones immersion).
Invisible FARBs are an option of course, but come with it's own problems. My main problem is the spawning though. When selecting "start from ground" it would work with a single aircraft, but for flights of more than one, i wasn't able to select different positions for flight members. Ok, i'm going a bit off-topic witht his, but is this a known bug/limitation, or did i do it wrong?

[Minsky]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

Yes, i kinda get that from that perspective, but for me it does not make sense everything considered. For gameplay it would be better to have those working (especially Pagan that is) and making them work shouldn't be big of a task (and - for teh record - they could still be inofficial strips without atc - so it shouldn't destroy anyones immersion).
Invisible FARBs are an option of course, but come with it's own problems.

To my knowledge, they only use Pagan a few times a year (to drop tourists and for occasional medevac). No aircraft is stationed there, and aside from probably a barrel of kerosene there are no facilities.

North West Field, at least until the recent past, acted as an "extension" to AAFB, with no permanent facilities whatsoever (read: FARP). 

Olf Orote is used for training only.

So yeah, while it would be nice to have them as spawn-able locations, I can see why ED is not particularly eager of doing so.

1 hour ago, twistking said:

My main problem is the spawning though. When selecting "start from ground" it would work with a single aircraft, but for flights of more than one, i wasn't able to select different positions for flight members. Ok, i'm going a bit off-topic witht his, but is this a known bug/limitation, or did i do it wrong?

It's a limitation, because AI require taxi routes that are only available at "proper" airfields.

[twistking]

2 hours ago, Minsky said:

It's a limitation, because AI require taxi routes that are only available at "proper" airfields.

Ok my fault. I did not expect for it to work with an AI wingman, but i somehow thought it would not work wie a "client" wingman. Turns out it does indeed work with clents, so that's good enough for me! Thanks.

To a much bigger surprise i found out, that Pagan airstrip does offer ground service!!! I only tested with blue coalition for now, but i assume that it offers service to anyone, since you cannot change the coalition. No FARB needed. Just land on Pagan Islannd and use the normal default comms menu to talk to ground services...
For general mission building it would still be better, if AI could use the airstrip to spawn, but with ground service being available and the ground spawn feature being avaialble for client flights, it's kinda good enough for me i guess...

[Minsky]

57 minutes ago, twistking said:

Just land on Pagan Islannd and use the normal default comms menu to talk to ground services...

IIRC you cannot actually request anything through this menu.

[twistking]

15 hours ago, Minsky said:

IIRC you cannot actually request anything through this menu.

maybe we don't mean the same menu?! i always use the comms menu that is not specific to any radio. this always worked for me for ground crew tasking. i'm used to having the canopy open when doing so, maybe this is a factor?!

i also realized that me being able to rearm/refuel was probably because of the ground vehicles i had put down. i assumed that ground crew also needed the "invisible farb" object to work, but now i think that a refueler and humvee in vicinity is all it takes...

Edited June 19, 2022 by twistking

[Minsky]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

maybe we don't mean the same menu?! i always use the comms menu that is not specific to any radio. this always worked for me for ground crew tasking. i'm used to having the canopy open when doing so, maybe this is a factor?!

i also realized that me being able to rearm/refuel was probably because of the ground vehicles i had put down. i assumed that ground crew also needed the "invisible farb" object to work, but now i think that a refueler and humvee in vicinity is all it takes...

 

Looks that adding supply trucks (resources) to an "invisible" aerodrome (personnel) creates FARP without need of the actual FARP object.

Without those trucks, the ground menu is still there, but they won't answer your requests.

[twistking]

19 minutes ago, Minsky said:

Looks that adding supply trucks (resources) to an "invisible" aerodrome (personnel) creates FARP without need of the actual FARP object.

Without those trucks, the ground menu is still there, but they won't answer your requests.

Ok. so it seems that actually some thought went into those phantom-strips and they are neither WIP nor bugged. I still find it a strange design decision, but since it does what i need it to do, i won't complain.

[VampireNZ]

On 6/19/2022 at 6:28 AM, Minsky said:

I've been given this explanation. It's not from ED, but it could give you some insight into their logic.

I don't think either of these airfields ever officially "existed" in real world (with published charts, ICAO codes, etc).

The fact that some piece of ground is used for takeoff and landing doesn't make it a "proper" airfield.

If anything, this gives ED a valid excuse not to bother.

 

As a matter of fact it IS a real world airport according to the FAA, under the designation TT01. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by VampireNZ

[Recoil16]

6 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

As a matter of fact it IS a real world airport according to the FAA, under the designation TT01. Available here - FAA Airport Master Record for Pagan - TT01

It's closed indefinitely per the A/FD.