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Ideal parameters for AG Designation


LastRifleRound

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I love the simulation of the radar ranging function for air to ground work. 

@myHelljumper, what are the ideal parameters for a designation, both for CCRP (low drag default mode) and PI designations?

I'm getting mixed results from 20 degree dives (IP is on flat ground). What is the idealized set up one should practice when doing this (dive angle, altitude, etc)? I want to be doing this as "by-the-book" as possible.

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Hi,

In order to get the best designation accuracy you should try to have the highest angle relative to the ground. 20° would be a minimum, 30° is better.

Also, while using TAS ranging mode, you should try to stabilize the designation diamond on the target for about 1 second before pressing the designation command. This will allow the radar to more acurately find the center of the radar beam.

When doing low altitude designation (CCPI, low altitude PI designation) you should use the RS mode if the terrain is flat as it will give better results.

 

Tell me if iit helps :).

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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  • 2 weeks later...

I seem to have an issue with the PI designation. I have set my roh and theta to 37° and 9nm, but whenever I designate on the IP, my roh and theta change to some weird values and the hud markers point me to something like 30°, way off target. Specifically I talk about the campaign mission 13, I always have this issue there. I always have to press "magic unlock/INS Update" AFTER designating with PI to get the correct bearings.

 

Is that normal?!


Edited by Zoddom
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Be careful, BAD rho theta are geographic, not magnetic

Also, the weird values displayed after designating IP are your estimated drift, they are normal. Don't press again the magic unlock, or you will cancel the update. Just go straight to target without messing anything on INS

 

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Am 3.11.2021 um 16:28 schrieb Kercheiz:

Be careful, BAD rho theta are geographic, not magnetic

Also, the weird values displayed after designating IP are your estimated drift, they are normal. Don't press again the magic unlock, or you will cancel the update. Just go straight to target without messing anything on INS

 

Are you sure? The GR tutorial said that the BAD automatically compensates for magnetic. But Ill check that again, from the values it sounds like this could be the culprit.

 

However, when I tried that with Magic Unlock, by CCRP wings changed direction and lead me to the actual BAD I input before. How can that be?

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Rho/Theta is a pretty inaccurate way to do this. Zoom in on the ME and just look at how much of a difference 1 degree makes. You cannot get more accurate angles than 1 degree increments in the ME.

I recommend using delta lat/long if you have to do this in the jet. Even better, in the ME place a waypoint over the IP, and one over the target. In the Name field for the target one, type in "#CONVERT_TO_BAD". That will automatically become a precisely offset to the preceding (IP) waypoint.

On 10/24/2021 at 3:56 AM, myHelljumper said:

Hi,

In order to get the best designation accuracy you should try to have the highest angle relative to the ground. 20° would be a minimum, 30° is better.

Also, while using TAS ranging mode, you should try to stabilize the designation diamond on the target for about 1 second before pressing the designation command. This will allow the radar to more acurately find the center of the radar beam.

When doing low altitude designation (CCPI, low altitude PI designation) you should use the RS mode if the terrain is flat as it will give better results.

 

Tell me if iit helps :).

I'm seeing great results at 40 degrees, but ONLY if I keep that pipper dead still for a bit before designating, just as you say.

However, I find that turning RS off might be necessary. It could be in my head, so I'm going to do many more runs to confirm it. It could also be in my head and I just hold the aircraft steadier with it off due to some subconscious confirmation bias. Hard to say, as I'm really pushing the limits of accuracy with the system to obtain an ideal to work backwards from.

It's fun doing it. It's very challenging but entirely possible to nail a small house-sized target when using another house-sized target as an IP. Really tests your ability to hold her steady and wings level in the dive.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rho-theta is to the 0.1° which is a bit better than 1°. That's 3.5m per nm resolution. At 10nm it would be 35m resolution. The distance is to the 0.01nm or 20m constant. Outside of 5.7nm radial the angular resolution drops below the radial resolution. But the dL/L is exactly the X-Z DCS coordinate system (to the meter) and perfect for precision offsets. BUT or BAD points only matter for PI (usually toss) bombing anyway. All other bombing is visual.

In the Name field for the target one, type in "#CONVERT_TO_BAD". That will automatically become a precisely offset to the preceding (IP) waypoint.

Well that's frickin' cool. I'm a little surprised they didn't use the existing offset attack stuff from the ME but that's really nice to have at all. Plus it works nice. Interestingly (and helpfully) it populates both rho-theta and dL/L. I wonder if it suffers from resolution limits. I forget which format overwrites the other one.

You might have set 003.7° instead of 037.0° by mistake.

PI is good for low alt ingress so overflight INS update is probably better than oblique radar offset update. With cooperative terrain you can climb up a big and get a good downlook angle.

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3 hours ago, Frederf said:

Rho-theta is to the 0.1° which is a bit better than 1°. That's 3.5m per nm resolution. At 10nm it would be 35m resolution. The distance is to the 0.01nm or 20m constant. Outside of 5.7nm radial the angular resolution drops below the radial resolution. But the dL/L is exactly the X-Z DCS coordinate system (to the meter) and perfect for precision offsets. BUT or BAD points only matter for PI (usually toss) bombing anyway. All other bombing is visual.

In the Name field for the target one, type in "#CONVERT_TO_BAD". That will automatically become a precisely offset to the preceding (IP) waypoint.

Well that's frickin' cool. I'm a little surprised they didn't use the existing offset attack stuff from the ME but that's really nice to have at all. Plus it works nice. Interestingly (and helpfully) it populates both rho-theta and dL/L. I wonder if it suffers from resolution limits. I forget which format overwrites the other one.

You might have set 003.7° instead of 037.0° by mistake.

PI is good for low alt ingress so overflight INS update is probably better than oblique radar offset update. With cooperative terrain you can climb up a big and get a good downlook angle.

You can set the increment to .1 degrees, but the ME will only give it in 1 degree, that's what I meant.

I used your method of delta lat/long with great results before, and now RAZ has added that handy shortcut for the ME that lets you skip a step on the ramp.

They're really killing it with the Mirage lately.

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