Trim issue since update

[brettt777]

I have had a trim issue with DCS since a few updates back. 2.7.5 maybe...? Anyway, the deal is, most of my DCS planes have some kind of trim issue. I have a FFB Logitech G940. Up until that update, I never had an issue with it. Now, most of the planes have trim issues. Some of them the trim doesn't work at all. A couple of them, the trim works backwards. And one or two of them, the trim axis is backwards even though it's set up correctly. And then there are two or three of them where the trim works fine. I believe it's the F-18 and the F-16 and maybe one other that the trim is good. I do not believe it's a hardware issue as I use the exact same setup in several other sims with no issues (two versions of P3D, FSX, and MSFS2020). The thing is, when I'm in an aircraft where it doesn't work... it is working, but it's not. Like in the P-51 or P-47 or Spitfire. I move the pitch trim on my joystick, I see the trim wheel move in the cockpit, I can even see the trim tab moving on the elevator. But nothing happens. It doesn't affect the flight model in any way. I'm flying along in a Mustang having to put constant pressure on the stick to keep the nose down. I move my trim control and I watch the trim tab on the elevator move all the way up which should make the elevator go down. But it doesn't. It has no affect at all. A few are like this. In the jets, I move my trim button and I see the cockpit trim switch move it the correct direction just like it always has. But it does not change the behavior of the Tomcat or F-5. They still want to go nose up. I want to say that the roll trim has similar issues. I also have one or two planes where the trim controls are setup correctly, i.e. my pitch trim control is set for pitch trim, but when I move it, I get a response in the roll axis. I won't bore you with the details of which plane does what, but you get the picture. One thing I have not done is correlate which plane is doing what by who developed it. The Hornet and the Falcon work fine. I need to look and see who made what.                                                                                                                                                                            Again, my controller system works just fine with those two planes, maybe a third, and it works fine in other sims. So it's not a hardware issue. And prior to that one update, I never had an issue with any planes in DCS. One thing someone else mentioned is some old glitch they had heard of before where any controller that was FFB could have trim issues. I have never experienced that. I have been with DCS pretty much from the beginning and I've had the same controller that never had an issue until now. I do NOT want to give up my FFB. In fact, I'm kind of amazed that virtually none of the new, modern flight systems are FFB. I realize that FFB isn't really necessary in modern fighter jets, but to me it's absolutely essential in older WWII planes and even some jets like the L-39.

So... has anyone else had any kind of trim issue in the last couple months since 2.7.5?

 

[Andurula]

The trim and autopilot on my tomcat has quit working since I last flew it a few weeks ago.

Controllers are tested and working fine.  Remapped / recalibrated controls had no effect.  Even the keyboard controls don't work.

I have been flying mostly the Harrier for the past few weeks and that appears unaffected.  My (same) controls and keybinds work fine on that module.

 

[Edit]  I have to eat my words because this afternoon on the Harrier I had the same problem.  ditto on the F-5.

I was able to fix the problem by going into my controller configuration software (VKB Gunfighter 3) and setting everything to defaults. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Andurula

[MAXsenna]

Have you tried swapping axis, and/or reversing X/Y in the axis FFB settings in the modules that don't work? 

I'm using MS SW FFB2, and I have to do this in every module. 

[brettt777]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:00 PM, MAXsenna said:

Have you tried swapping axis, and/or reversing X/Y in the axis FFB settings in the modules that don't work? 

I'm using MS SW FFB2, and I have to do this in every module. 

Well, I have but that would only fix a couple of them. The ones where the trim control surfaces are actually moving... I mean, obviously my controller is setup correctly because the trim switch on the stick in the cockpit is moving in the correct direction. I mean, if I'm flying a Mustang and I can watch the elevator trim tab go up and down while I'm flying and it has absolutely no affect on the aircraft, my system and my setup are obviously not the problem. I set the trim on my F-5 full down and it moves the stick forward, but when I'm flying I have to keep constant forward pressure on the stick to keep the nose down; obviously not a problem with my system or my setup.

I also have the MS SW FFB2. I tried it instead of the G940 and got similar results. But it was never like this before. Before 2.7.5, I had stepped away from flight sims for a month or so. I alternate between flight and driving sims like that. Before that, I never had ANY trim issues with any modules in DCS.

[brettt777]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:02 AM, Andurula said:

The trim and autopilot on my tomcat has quit working since I last flew it a few weeks ago.

Controllers are tested and working fine.  Remapped / recalibrated controls had no effect.  Even the keyboard controls don't work.

I have been flying mostly the Harrier for the past few weeks and that appears unaffected.  My (same) controls and keybinds work fine on that module.

 

[Edit]  I have to eat my words because this afternoon on the Harrier I had the same problem.  ditto on the F-5.

I was able to fix the problem by going into my controller configuration software (VKB Gunfighter 3) and setting everything to defaults. 

 

You're saying you went into the software for your Gunfighter and set to defaults? I'm not sure how I would do that with the Logitech software. Actually, now that I think of it, I don't actually use the Logitech software when I fly DCS. I just use the G940 raw inputs. That has always worked the best.

BTW, how do you like that "Gunfighter" setup? Interesting joystick. I'm assuming the handbrake on that stick is an axis that could be assigned to brakes? That would be awesome for the likes of the Spitfire and the L-39. I am actually pretty good at that since I work on L-39's for a living and frequently have to start and taxi them. The differential braking/steering is an art.

[Andurula]

"You're saying you went into the software for your Gunfighter and set to defaults? "

Exactly.  The software gets a bit flaky every few months so I always leave it in default anyway.  Something is going on with a recent update because now it appears every time I start DCS I need to set defaults again for the VKB.  The Virpil throttle and Crosswind pedals are fine but the VKB seems to be having the issues.

Overall, I love the VKB. With the long extention I can be very precise with control inputs.  The button selection is good.  Yes, the handbrake axis works perfectly for the MiGs pneumatic brakes and no doubt the Spitfire's braking would be the same.  At first I was a little concerned by the light weight "plastic" feel in the grip but after a year it is still solid.  The light weight grip does make it easier for the centering springs to do their job so I get why they did that.  Coupled with my Virpil throttle I never need all the buttons I have which  is a nice luxury.

Quibbles I have are:  The software is a long way from intuitive and while you can do a lot, it would help if I were a software engineer to figure out how to use it.  I had the thumb button x-y setup as a four way hat switch for awhile which I liked but the software would get flaky after a bit and I had to keep relearning how to reset it every few months and eventually just gave up and don't use it now.  The stick works much better if I leave everything in default so this new issue is weird.  Even leaving everything in  defaults I have to reset defaults all the time.  My guess is ED will figure it out soon enough. I can't imagine how complicated and convoluted the coding must have become over the lifespan of DCS.

 

Even though you never use your software you might try a "reset" and see if that works for you. Its keeping me going at the moment.

[MAXsenna]

8 hours ago, brettt777 said:

Well, I have but that would only fix a couple of them. The ones where the trim control surfaces are actually moving... I mean, obviously my controller is setup correctly because the trim switch on the stick in the cockpit is moving in the correct direction. I mean, if I'm flying a Mustang and I can watch the elevator trim tab go up and down while I'm flying and it has absolutely no affect on the aircraft, my system and my setup are obviously not the problem. I set the trim on my F-5 full down and it moves the stick forward, but when I'm flying I have to keep constant forward pressure on the stick to keep the nose down; obviously not a problem with my system or my setup.

I also have the MS SW FFB2. I tried it instead of the G940 and got similar results. But it was never like this before. Before 2.7.5, I had stepped away from flight sims for a month or so. I alternate between flight and driving sims like that. Before that, I never had ANY trim issues with any modules in DCS.

Apologies if I completely misunderstand you. I'm not talking about the trim hat settings in the control settings. Obviously you have set it correctly, and you see the stick moving in the virtual cockpit. But does the physical stick in your hand move correctly? If it doesn't, you need to go to axis settings, click on the column for your stick, and choose FFB settings. There you can swap axis, which I need to change for every module. And when the Hind was released, I had to reverse both X and Y as well, but they fixed that. 

What happens if you let's say, use the keyboard for trimming and you trim the X axis. Does your stick move in the Y Axis? If it does, here lies your solution. 

Again I apologise if this is not what you're seeing, but everything works for me with this minor change/fix. 

Cheers! 

BTW. I'll posts screenshot later. 

[brettt777]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:51 AM, MAXsenna said:

Apologies if I completely misunderstand you. I'm not talking about the trim hat settings in the control settings. Obviously you have set it correctly, and you see the stick moving in the virtual cockpit. But does the physical stick in your hand move correctly? If it doesn't, you need to go to axis settings, click on the column for your stick, and choose FFB settings. There you can swap axis, which I need to change for every module. And when the Hind was released, I had to reverse both X and Y as well, but they fixed that. 

What happens if you let's say, use the keyboard for trimming and you trim the X axis. Does your stick move in the Y Axis? If it does, here lies your solution. 

Again I apologise if this is not what you're seeing, but everything works for me with this minor change/fix. 

Cheers! 

BTW. I'll posts screenshot later. 

Ahhh... okay. I understand what you're saying now. I will give that a try. I'll try anything at this point.

[MAXsenna]

Ahhh... okay. I understand what you're saying now. I will give that a try. I'll try anything at this point.

Great!
Apologies! I completely forgot about the screenshots. Do you need them?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[brettt777]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:07 PM, Andurula said:

"You're saying you went into the software for your Gunfighter and set to defaults? "

Exactly.  The software gets a bit flaky every few months so I always leave it in default anyway.  Something is going on with a recent update because now it appears every time I start DCS I need to set defaults again for the VKB.  The Virpil throttle and Crosswind pedals are fine but the VKB seems to be having the issues.

Overall, I love the VKB. With the long extention I can be very precise with control inputs.  The button selection is good.  Yes, the handbrake axis works perfectly for the MiGs pneumatic brakes and no doubt the Spitfire's braking would be the same.  At first I was a little concerned by the light weight "plastic" feel in the grip but after a year it is still solid.  The light weight grip does make it easier for the centering springs to do their job so I get why they did that.  Coupled with my Virpil throttle I never need all the buttons I have which  is a nice luxury.

Quibbles I have are:  The software is a long way from intuitive and while you can do a lot, it would help if I were a software engineer to figure out how to use it.  I had the thumb button x-y setup as a four way hat switch for awhile which I liked but the software would get flaky after a bit and I had to keep relearning how to reset it every few months and eventually just gave up and don't use it now.  The stick works much better if I leave everything in default so this new issue is weird.  Even leaving everything in  defaults I have to reset defaults all the time.  My guess is ED will figure it out soon enough. I can't imagine how complicated and convoluted the coding must have become over the lifespan of DCS.

 

Even though you never use your software you might try a "reset" and see if that works for you. Its keeping me going at the moment.

Well, I'll look into this and give it a try but I am doubtful. I tried DCS with and without the Logitech SW the other night and it made no difference, but at this point I'll try anything.

I don't suppose your VKB is FFB...? I know I don't really need FFB for the modern jets but it sure is nice for the older planes. I don't really want to give it up. But if I can't get the trim to work right...   It's just very frustrating because it use to work so good and I know it's not an issue with my system. I was flying the P-51 and the P-47 the other night and I was watching the elevator trim tab while I moved my trim wheel. I did exactly what is was suppose to do, but made absolutely no difference in the attitude of the airplane, and it obviously use to.

[brettt777]

4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Great!
Apologies! I completely forgot about the screenshots. Do you need them?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

No I don't need pics, thanks. I think I understand what you mean. I wanna say that on the jets, the stick moves like it should as does the trim button, although I think there is one jet where the trim is set up correctly but the plane reacts to it backwards, i.e. when I adjust pitch trim, the trim switch in the cockpit moves correctly but the aircraft responds in the roll axis. Something like that. I'm gonna have to go through all of my planes again and see what does what.

[MAXsenna]

No I don't need pics, thanks. I think I understand what you mean. I wanna say that on the jets, the stick moves like it should as does the trim button, although I think there is one jet where the trim is set up correctly but the plane reacts to it backwards, i.e. when I adjust pitch trim, the trim switch in the cockpit moves correctly but the aircraft responds in the roll axis. Something like that. I'm gonna have to go through all of my planes again and see what does what.

Yes, this is exactly what I see in every module, until I swap the axis, so I'm crossing my fingers for you.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Andurula]

I assumed you were on Open Beta and if so maybe you can switch to the Stable version until they sort it out?

No FFB on the VKB stick.  Sounds nice but I have never had it so I don't know what I am missing.

[brettt777]

On 10/27/2021 at 4:57 PM, Andurula said:

I assumed you were on Open Beta and if so maybe you can switch to the Stable version until they sort it out?

No FFB on the VKB stick.  Sounds nice but I have never had it so I don't know what I am missing.

I have always used FFB joysticks. It's not a big deal for the newer jets obviously because everything these days is FBW so you don't really feel anything in the stick besides a bit of back pressure. Even an older jet like the F-86 has all hydraulic flight controls so you don't feel anything. But the older WWII planes that had direct flight controls, FFB makes a world of difference in those because when you're flying them, you feel everything. Even in a relatively (compared to WWII) jet like the L-39 it makes allot of difference. The L-39 has no hydraulics in the flight controls so like the older planes, you feel everything. I know this because for the last 14 years I have worked on privately owned L-39s for a living, although I am semi-retired now. But I got to fly in them many, many times and trust me when I say, FFB in a plane like that makes a world of difference. When you're pulling allot of G's and you're right on the edge and you just barely start to feel that tiny bit of vibration in the stick because you're right on the edge of a stall. It adds so much realism, at least IMHO. The deal is, none of the newer flight systems are FFB and I don't understand why. So I have to try to keep my 10 year old G940 going as long as I can cuz it's the last of a dying breed.