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PIMAX Monster 12k, Eyes tracking, INSIDE OUT and Much more !!


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By the logic of Pimax, if I watch TV with both eyes open, I actually have an 8K television.  :doh:

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28 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

By the logic of Pimax, if I watch TV with both eyes open, I actually have an 8K television.  :doh:

Lol yep!

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On 8/26/2022 at 1:56 PM, eaglecash867 said:

By the logic of Pimax, if I watch TV with both eyes open, I actually have an 8K television.  :doh:

Back to the discussion about 8k vs 4k.  I thnik that the real answer to what is the actual resolution of what you see in an 8k HMD is between 4k and 8k, not 4k and definitely not 8k.

If you look in your HMD and roll your eyes from one side to the other, you will notice that part of the image can't be seen by both eyes.  Although there are effectively two 4k panels, each eye can see one full panel and a portion of the opposing side panel.  When the two images are superimposed in your brain, you get the 3rd dimension as a result of superposition but the resolution does not change.  For sake of discussion if there is a 20% portion of the panel that can't be seen by the opposite side eye, then you will not have a 3D image for that portion but it is still visible as at least one of your eyes sees it.

Now, figuring out what is the actual resolution of the image seen in your brain is something like 80% of 4K which is the superimposed portion of the image, plus 20% of 4k for the left eye and 20% for the right eye. Doing the math, your actual resolution is 120% of 4k, or 4.8k.  This is if the portion of the image not visible to the opposing eye equate 20%.  

I never actually calculated this precisely but I think I'm not too far off.  All this to say that the actual resolution of the 12k, based on 20% non-visible by opposing eye, would be about 7.2k.


Edited by WipeUout
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5 hours ago, WipeUout said:

Back to the discussion about 8k vs 4k.  I thnik that the real answer to what is the actual resolution of what you see in an 8k HMD is between 4k and 8k, not 4k and definitely not 8k.

If you look in your HMD and roll your eyes from one side to the other, you will notice that part of the image can't be seen by both eyes.  Although there are effectively two 4k panels, each eye can see one full panel and a portion of the opposing side panel.  When the two images are superimposed in your brain, you get the 3rd dimension as a result of superposition but the resolution does not change.  For sake of discussion if there is a 20% portion of the panel that can't be seen by the opposite side eye, then you will not have a 3D image for that portion but it is still visible as at least one of your eyes sees it.

Now, figuring out what is the actual resolution of the image seen in your brain is something like 80% of 4K which is the superimposed portion of the image, plus 20% of 4k for the left eye and 20% for the right eye. Doing the math, your actual resolution is 120% of 4k, or 4.8k.  This is if the portion of the image not visible to the opposing eye equate 20%.  

I never actually calculated this precisely but I think I'm not too far off.  All this to say that the actual resolution of the 12k, based on 20% non-visible by opposing eye, would be about 7.2k.

 

Its really not even that complicated.  When you're in VR, the image isn't spread between two eyes (with one half in one eye, and the other half in the other eye)...it is the same image on each screen, offset a little bit for a 3D image.  Even if 1 panel in the headset is a true 4K panel, the headset is still going to be a 4K headset (or possibly a 4.8k like you said), not an 8K like Pimax claims.  That's all I was trying to say.  :matrix:

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2 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

Its really not even that complicated.  When you're in VR, the image isn't spread between two eyes (with one half in one eye, and the other half in the other eye)...it is the same image on each screen, offset a little bit for a 3D image.  Even if 1 panel in the headset is a true 4K panel, the headset is still going to be a 4K headset (or possibly a 4.8k like you said), not an 8K like Pimax claims.  That's all I was trying to say.  :matrix:

 

Sure, it is called "Pimax Math".  :renske:

One reason I have never owned a Pimax and likely never will.

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

Sure, it is called "Pimax Math".  :renske:

One reason I have never owned a Pimax and likely never will.

Yup.  Right there with ya.  It makes me doubt their actual knowledge and abilities when it comes to display technology...and I sure wouldn't ever trust any future claims they make about anything.  We would have no way of knowing what terms like "eye tracking" and "foveated rendering" mean to them, but it probably won't have anything to do with what those two things actually are.  Kinda reminds me of all of those cosmetics commercials they have on TV where every few months there's some made up buzzword "chemical" that everybody just has to have...only to have it all disappear from advertising just as quickly.  LOL

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Rough crowd here, lol!! 

I've owned Odyssey, Odyssey+, Vive, Index, and now 8KX.  I can't wait to trade up to the 12K. 

I did follow Pimax since the first kickstarter and frankly, I was not impressed with their execution/support nightmare stories at all back then, hence me skipping all the way to 8KX.  I do think they've come a long way from those days, and apparently they have learned from their mistakes.  I got excellent support for the two times I've needed to contact them.

 

I really don't care what they name a product and really only care about what the product will do for me and based on my experience with the 8KX, I am really excited for the 12K.  I'll just wait for the reviews before pulling the trigger, as usual.

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21 hours ago, Slammin said:

based on my experience with the 8KX, I am really excited for the 12K

Keyword "experience".  I've also tried many and I am now with my second Pimax HMD.  There is no substitute for superior immersion with the pimax FOV.  Granted their maketing is a bit streaching it and misleading.  But once you try it and compare... for me this is the best HMD for DCS.   

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On 8/31/2022 at 8:27 PM, dburne said:

 

Sure, it is called "Pimax Math".  :renske:

One reason I have never owned a Pimax and likely never will.

It's not Pimax math.  And it's not even a lie.  X K is just horizontal pixel count, there's an assumed vertical pixel count as 16:9 is the standard, but it doesn't actually denote anything except horizontal pixel count (and even then doesn't denote a specific pixel count, just a rough range) and 2 4k screens is 8k horizontal pixels, just not at a 16:9 aspect ratio (somewhere like 7:2)

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9 hours ago, James DeSouza said:

It's not Pimax math.  And it's not even a lie.  X K is just horizontal pixel count, there's an assumed vertical pixel count as 16:9 is the standard, but it doesn't actually denote anything except horizontal pixel count (and even then doesn't denote a specific pixel count, just a rough range) and 2 4k screens is 8k horizontal pixels, just not at a 16:9 aspect ratio (somewhere like 7:2)

:doh:  The same image is being displayed in both eyes essentially, so yes, it is a misrepresentation.  I don't get to call my 4K television an 8K television because I'm watching it with both eyes.

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7 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

:doh:  The same image is being displayed in both eyes essentially, so yes, it is a misrepresentation.  I don't get to call my 4K television an 8K television because I'm watching it with both eyes.

You could arguably call it an 8k television if you watched a 4k image with each eye independent of each other.

Either way it's just semantics and marketing. Who cares? It doesn't deserve this much discussion.

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1 hour ago, FoxTwo said:

You could arguably call it an 8k television if you watched a 4k image with each eye independent of each other.

Either way it's just semantics and marketing. Who cares? It doesn't deserve this much discussion.

You are right about that, when a company lies about their product and what they will deliver they certainly do not deserve any.

But I admit to bias here.

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3 hours ago, FoxTwo said:

You could arguably call it an 8k television if you watched a 4k image with each eye independent of each other.

Either way it's just semantics and marketing. Who cares? It doesn't deserve this much discussion.

Just giving a very simple explanation of my viewpoint, which is getting misinterpreted over and over.  Its just habit from my career.  If I have a salesman come into my office with a new avionics product he wants me to buy into and promote, and during his presentation, everything he says doesn't align with industry standards of terminology?  I'm going to take his business card and say "Thanks for stopping by.", and that's going to be it.  I won't be buying into his product.  I understand that its a different situation though, because that scenario is literally life and death.  But, that's why it matters to me, just hard-coded into my brain...that's all.  If it doesn't matter to you, I'm good with that.  :drinks_cheers:

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8 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

:doh:  The same image is being displayed in both eyes essentially, so yes, it is a misrepresentation.  I don't get to call my 4K television an 8K television because I'm watching it with both eyes.

The same image isn't being displayed in both eyes, you wouldn't have stereoscopic 3D if that were the case.  And even if it was, it doesn't matter.  It's still 8k horizontal pixels.

  

5 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

Just giving a very simple explanation of my viewpoint, which is getting misinterpreted over and over.  Its just habit from my career.  If I have a salesman come into my office with a new avionics product he wants me to buy into and promote, and during his presentation, everything he says doesn't align with industry standards of terminology?  I'm going to take his business card and say "Thanks for stopping by.", and that's going to be it.  I won't be buying into his product.  I understand that its a different situation though, because that scenario is literally life and death.  But, that's why it matters to me, just hard-coded into my brain...that's all.  If it doesn't matter to you, I'm good with that.  :drinks_cheers:

Except the pimax salesman in this case quite literally IS using industry standard terminology.  Xk does not refer to any specific resolution.  There's multiple standards for each XK.  Moving away from 4/8K for example is 2k.  You've been using a 2k monitor for ages as 2k refers to 1920x1080.  Except it also refers to 7 other major standards and a bunch of other minor ones.  Or moving away from horizontal pixels you get into vertical pixels, such as 1440p which has roughly 10 major resolutions which fall under that label depending on aspect ratio.

(Though I say major, since they were consumer products sold by all manufacturers, I think that "wide HD" thing has died out by now...)

 

In this case the pimax salesman isn't using non standard terminology, you're just trying to rationalise an irrational hatred of his product.


Edited by James DeSouza
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I have no hatred for Pimax, I'm rather intruiged by them. Whether the term is used incorrectly or not, it seems strange when other developers are not doing it. I'm any case it's not the ballpark of some car companies that market their electric cars as "turbo version". That really ticks me off. 😊 

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19 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I have no hatred for Pimax, I'm rather intruiged by them. Whether the term is used incorrectly or not, it seems strange when other developers are not doing it. I'm any case it's not the ballpark of some car companies that market their electric cars as "turbo version". That really ticks me off. 😊 

Seeing turbo electric cars reminds me of the turbo button that used to be on old early 90's PCs.  What manufacturer markets a turbo EV by the way?  Not seen it myself but don't really keep up with EVs (don't have the money for one that's worth buying).

 

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Seeing turbo electric cars reminds me of the turbo button that used to be on old early 90's PCs.  What manufacturer markets a turbo EV by the way?  Not seen it myself but don't really keep up with EVs (don't have the money for one that's worth buying).
 
When you hear about "turbo". What car manufacturer comes to mind? Makes the blasfemy even worse!

I do remember that button.

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Since we are digressing a bit, my two cents:

Porsche uses this scheme to describe their variants of EV cars.  The rational is to use the same naming concept as their petrol only version in an effort to classify the car's power output.  I have a Panamera e-hybrid and it is labeled as a Panamera S.  The petrol only Panamera S had a 420 HP engine, mine has a 330 HP v6 plus a 96 HP electric motor with a combined output of 416 HP, thus earning the label ''S''.  This way, the customer can understand quickly to the equivalent EV version.  They have used this also with their electric only Tycan with a ''turbo'' version.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it is a different attempt to explain the product to the customer.

That said, I will buy the 12k but only when GPUs can keep up with the huge number of pixels.  Hopefully the AMD Radeon 7000 series or the NVIDIA 4000 series will have the HPs to cope with it.🤞

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Pimax we’re the ones that got me really interested in VR but I’ve gone with a HP reverb G1 some time ago and been really happy with it while I wait for something that is worth spending the money on. 
 

It looks to me that Pimax is the only company right now to be openly pushing the boundaries on features and performance after a long period of same same same. I really hope their next two products are as cool as they sound. 
 

As to the aside, I have a Tesla 3 SR+ and I leave it in “chill” mode to drive around with the wife and kids, just occasionally to show off, I place it in “standard” mode but would one day like to find a way to trust myself and try, in somebody else’s Tesla, their ‘Ludicrous’ mode because ‘Standard’ is scary enough as it is…..especially when it is completely silent. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/4/2022 at 5:51 PM, Willie Nelson said:

 

As to the aside, I have a Tesla 3 SR+ and I leave it in “chill” mode to drive around with the wife and kids, just occasionally to show off, I place it in “standard” mode but would one day like to find a way to trust myself and try, in somebody else’s Tesla, their ‘Ludicrous’ mode because ‘Standard’ is scary enough as it is…..especially when it is completely silent. 

Heh...I pulled up next to a Tesla S this past Friday night when I had just been to a concert that put me in a nostalgic mood for my teenage drag racing days in the 80s, but me and the guy in the Tesla had a brief drag race (I'm driving a Dodge Durango R/T with a 5.7 liter Hemi).  Well...he not only smoked me...but smoked me BAD.  I guess the 0-60 spec for that car is 2 seconds flat!  YIKES!  But, I didn't feel all that bad about it.  Afterall, he spent over $150,000 for his car...mine cost me 40.  

No hatred for Pimax here either.  MAXSenna said it better than I could have, no other manufacturer represents their resolution that way...because its not correct to do so.  That's what I have a problem with.  Not trying to rationalize anything or change anyone's minds.

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On 8/26/2022 at 5:56 AM, eaglecash867 said:

By the logic of Pimax, if I watch TV with both eyes open, I actually have an 8K television.  :doh:

Job security. If this VR thing doesn't work out for them they can always try politics next.

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54 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

Job security. If this VR thing doesn't work out for them they can always try politics next.

Yeah right - that would certainly be right up their (lying) alley... schmucks.


Edited by dburne
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  • 1 month later...
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  • 3 weeks later...

So my rig needs to push around 14 million pixels at native resolution with barrel distortion supersampling to get job done but this 12K Pimax, assuming it doesn’t need to compensate for barrel distortion will need to push more than 75 million pixels.
 

That’s around five times more pixels. 
 

My 3080ti and 12900KF is flat out getting 2.7 running smooth let alone 2.8 which is a whole other story. 
 

How on earth are we going to be able to 5 times more pixels out of current day build…….? Perhaps by 2030………

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You're gonna need a bigger boat?  Seriously though, I'm not expecting to be able to max out the resolution of the 12k with DCS or FS2020, but I am expecting something less than max will still look and perform better than what we have available to us at this time.

 

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