reported Massive Bug - AI Seeing/Shooting through Trees/Shrubs again

[Apocalypse31]

I'll make a video to depict this, but basically the AI is seeing and engaging through brush and foliage. 

I noticed this while re-visiting some of the older CA missions that were released with the module, and then while testing some custom content I was working on. 

This was previously a bug when Combined Arms was first released, but I'm now seeing it again. 

I will post a follow-on video to give an example. 

[Livers]

Still seeing this also.They have amazing detection and aiming capabilities.

[Apocalypse31]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:31 AM, Livers said:

Still seeing this also.They have amazing detection and aiming capabilities.

I have been unable to reproduce, but there have been many questionable engagements

[NineLine]

Tracks please.

[Livers]

Here's one - the Red T-80 kills 2 Abrams while the Abrams never see the killer. Assuming the track plays correctly.

AI_test.trk

[GumidekCZ]

Hi @Apocalypse31 and @Livers

After small quick test in Combined Arms, I can confirm this bug. Im suspecting and need to be tested, that only trees which makes forest are blocking the sight. Any other cluster or couple of trees or bushes can by visible through by AI, not by human player of course. I have quick test mission where my Abrams is hiding behind big cluster of tree and shot from T-80 can make it trough the trees without exploding and it is blowing up my Abrams every time.

This is very significant bug affecting most of ground operations. This diserve to be fixed ASAP.

I also found these lines in old Detection.Lua code (DCS OB 2.5.6.60966 , 2021-02-10):

visual_detection = {
    terrain_LOS_test = true,
    Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,
    objects_LOS_test = true,
    trees_LOS_test = false,
    trees_LOS_test_T4 = true,

I must admint, that I cannot confirm, that when this code was actual, the tree masking was working correctly. But I wonder, why the trees_LOS_test was set to "false" and what is "T4"

Im also wondering if rule of vis detection like this one:    recognition_distance_ratio_threshold = 0.25, --target will be recognized if ratio between the distance and the maximal detection distance is less than this value  is somehow overiding above mentioned tree LOS test.

I will try to add here test.miz with track later today.

Edited April 21, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[Callsign112]

49 minutes ago, GumidekCZ said:

...This is very significant bug affecting most of ground operations. This diserve to be fixed ASAP...
 

 

+1. The ground side of DCS needs more sustained love. Please increase time on task.

[rcjonessnp175]

Ground folks have amazing loophole finding abilities,  wish my sniper students back in the day picked up so easily.  Jokes aside this does hamper allot of the campaigns and own personal mission building.  On one hand the trees seem to not exist so that’s a negative then on same token in Syria especially southeast around h3 the Ai Los is really good about not detecting or engaging other units that are blocked by terrain.

  Hope the tree stuff gets fixed up soon,  it’s also hard doing the BP in a heli when you get sniped through trees.

[Callsign112]

1 hour ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

...Hope the tree stuff gets fixed up soon,  it’s also hard doing the BP in a heli when you get sniped through trees.

Things like this need to be fixed.

[GumidekCZ]

2 hours ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

Ground folks have amazing loophole finding abilities,  wish my sniper students back in the day picked up so easily.  Jokes aside this does hamper allot of the campaigns and own personal mission building.  On one hand the trees seem to not exist so that’s a negative then on same token in Syria especially southeast around h3 the Ai Los is really good about not detecting or engaging other units that are blocked by terrain.

  Hope the tree stuff gets fixed up soon,  it’s also hard doing the BP in a heli when you get sniped through trees.

I just finished another round of testing and I must appologize for designating this as significant bug. Its seems that its not at the end. Exactly as @rcjonessnp175wrote... "amazing loophole finding abilities" - any part of my tank visible through just smole hole in the trees (no matter if just tree cluster or forest) to hostile tank sensor point, and he will start engaging me.

Problem with AI unit now is, that mostly only small part of your tank visible is enough to AI to recognize you. To human player this is almost imposible, or would take much more time than to AI times (AI seek time is also dependant on target bearing from unit 12 oclock). This results in very very unfair fight if you put human and AI and couple of trees in the middle. If you want to play Combined arms as ground unit, I highly recomend to set all unit to max only GOOD skill - not higher. This way you will set some inaccuracy to AI gunners and you will have at least a chance to recognize that you are under attack. ... but in most of the time if you are not close to cover... this will still endup in you death, because we are lacking any efective smoke screen defense deployed from turret capsules or by main gun smoke granade.

[GumidekCZ]

My test mission: Ai_sniper_skill_test.miz

First two pictures from AI gun sight before I let him to shoot my Abrams behind sluster of tree. If you really focus, there is visible on track wheel under the black aiming arrow. sorry, no it was just a leaf. Yes even this is enough for AI to be able to see you and shoot through the trees. This really need some AI adjustments!

Second two pictures after I have been hit and Im burning. Here the same wheel is

Last picture with red dot place, where my Abrams is burning.

Edited April 21, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[Callsign112]

Really interesting test. I don't see any part of your tank visible though in either set of photos. And I don't see any smoke plumes in the second set of pictures either. So unless you can edit the photos with a different color circle to highlight where you can see the Abrams through the trees, I really can't tell where you are.

I think your initial point is still pretty accurate. The Ai ability to spot through trees/bushes/smoke is still way to high. We shouldn't forget that in addition to the tree cover, you are also separated by nearly 800m distance. 

But great test and thanks for your efforts.

[GumidekCZ]

I crop the images to have same resolution as my screen have, but with result of smaller file size to not cross the ED forum size limit. Smoke is visible on original pictures above the tree tops.

[rcjonessnp175]

Great test, ya because of this Ai Uber ability setting up ambush points is pointless as the ambusher’s get ambushed  through the forest lol

Edited April 21, 2022 by rcjonessnp175

[Callsign112]

+1, they need to find the time to get ground units working better for both Ai infantry/vehicles, and player controlled vehicles.

[NineLine]

Checking...

 

[Apocalypse31]

@GumidekCZ

 

Great find!!

[NineLine]

Reported, thanks!