Winwing Orion throttle is pretty bad

[rooster328]

I've posted a couple of times on the topics below regarding Winwing.

If you are thinking about a Winwing purchase be prepared to not have a usable product 4 to 5months down the road.

On my Orion Throttle the buttons don't work and now the USB socket has completely detached from the slot making it unusable.   Pictured here.

Does anybody else find that the USB connection is quite movable inside it's housing?

It's like I took the 650USD and threw it into the fire.  They're refusing to send me a replacement.

[rooster328]

Hi Pilots,

Regarding this loose USB socket on Winwing products I'm getting some feedback that others also have some play in theirs too.   I'd suggest you email Winwing  "info@winwing.cn" to ask them about this and that you're concerned it may fail down the road .  It would be terrible if this is a structural weakness that's affecting all their products and have others go through the same grief as I am.  

I've never abused the Throttle or cable.   I simply unplug it when I'm done flight simming because I use my desk for work.  It's a great idea that it's a detachable USB but I guess this is the weakness of having that feature.

Just a suggestion.

Thank you if you decide to email them.

 

[MelkorBorgir]

it should be easily opened up and the usb socket secured, probably a loose screw.

[Simm0]

On 11/1/2021 at 6:00 AM, rooster328 said:

I'd suggest you email Winwing  "info@winwing.cn" to ask them about this and that you're concerned it may fail down the road .

 

Before we mass spam them be good to get an understanding of if there is really a "structural weakness" or just a loose screw, do you have an update on what your failure was or any more pics of the internals?

If it's the later and I ever have problems I'll just pop it open and fix it...

Edited November 3, 2021 by Simm0

[MelkorBorgir]

4 hours ago, Simm0 said:

Before we mass spam them be good to get an understanding of if there is really a "structural weakness" or just a loose screw, do you have an update on what your failure was or any more pics of the internals?

If it's the later and I ever have problems I'll just pop it open and fix it...

 

i've had no issues with mine other than a switch i broke myself, my own fault and they still sent me a free replacement toggle.

[rooster328]

Here's a link to what my USB was doing.  It was getting worse and worse till finally it just fell out of the housing.  Which other controllers out there have a removable USB?  It seems they set themselves up for this problem.  Now they don't want to deal with it.

 

 

[Simm0]

1 hour ago, rooster328 said:

Here's a link to what my USB was doing.  It was getting worse and worse till finally it just fell out of the housing.  Which other controllers out there have a removable USB?  It seems they set themselves up for this problem.  Now they don't want to deal with it.

 

What you have shown us here is that it is indeed loose, I dont think any of us are disputing that at all.

What we're asking to understand is if it's a "serious structural defect" as you've said above or simply a loose screw that can be put back in easily. Look forward to hearing an update once it's been cracked open and diagnosis done.

[MustangSally]

Have YOU emailed them and attached the vid????

Mate, remove the handles, undo the 4 screws on the base, remove the assembly and check......it's not hard!

I guarantee they will send you replacement parts

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by MustangSally

[rooster328]

Simmo; I'm not comfortable opening it.  I'll take it into a shop to get it looked at and fixed if I have the time.  Otherwise I'll have to order another throttle.   It was ironic that while I was searching out Discord Channels for other Throttles to buy I came across your HOTAS Discord server from a forum post;
http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=3132 

Low and behold I go joint the server to research some HOTAS and I see Tony the US rep from Winwing posting pics of my emails to him on the #Winwing Channel.

MustangSally;   They sent me a picture of this 5$ part and said to go ahead and solder it myself. 

Sorry.....not gonna happen.  If it was out of warranty I may try, but this is 4months old and covered under warranty.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by rooster328

[evilnate]

My dad is getting into DCS and I was shopping around for his xmas gift. He loves the hornet but has been trying to learn with the old X-52 pro.

I liked the look of the super taurus and libra, but after seeing these pics and video I might have to shell out a little extra money to go for a virpil set. 

Thanks for sharing @rooster328

 

[Simm0]

4 hours ago, evilnate said:

My dad is getting into DCS and I was shopping around for his xmas gift. He loves the hornet but has been trying to learn with the old X-52 pro.

I liked the look of the super taurus and libra, but after seeing these pics and video I might have to shell out a little extra money to go for a virpil set. 

Thanks for sharing @rooster328

 

Just be aware it seems a pretty consistent practice for all these manufacturers to deal with warranty issues by sending parts. Shipping is a killer in this industry so it's a way to keep costs down. They all seem to have a certain expectation that the end user can open or knows someone that can open the kit up.

[MustangSally]

11 hours ago, evilnate said:

My dad is getting into DCS and I was shopping around for his xmas gift. He loves the hornet but has been trying to learn with the old X-52 pro.

I liked the look of the super taurus and libra, but after seeing these pics and video I might have to shell out a little extra money to go for a virpil set. 

Thanks for sharing @rooster328

 

So you base your purchase on one complaint?.....hundreds if not thousands of WW devices have been sold without an issue, including me! See my sig?

Oh and Virpil send you the spares as well. Had major issues with Switches on my CM2 throttle....spares were sent (4weeks) and I replaced them.

Edited November 8, 2021 by MustangSally

[Oban]

10 hours ago, evilnate said:

My dad is getting into DCS and I was shopping around for his xmas gift. He loves the hornet but has been trying to learn with the old X-52 pro.

I liked the look of the super taurus and libra, but after seeing these pics and video I might have to shell out a little extra money to go for a virpil set. 

Thanks for sharing @rooster328

 

I'm another Orion user, and very happy with my purchase, I also own the TM warthog combo, but in all honesty prefer the WW Orion, considering it's still a fairly new product, there is always bound to be some parts that slip through QA/QC and have issue, both Virpil and TM have also had issues with products in the past.

 

[Recluse]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:38 PM, Oban said:

I'm another Orion user, and very happy with my purchase, I also own the TM warthog combo, but in all honesty prefer the WW Orion, considering it's still a fairly new product, there is always bound to be some parts that slip through QA/QC and have issue, both Virpil and TM have also had issues with products in the past.

 

Hi,  I've read a lot of reviews of the WinWing and Warthog comparisons.  I have been using a Cougar for many years and it is overdue for replacement. Thinking about the WinWing Orion.  What are the springs like on the stick? I got used to the pretty heavy throw of the Cougar (which I guess is similar to the Warthog). Wondering how the Orion is in comparison. In a lot of videos, it seems like the stick moves around with very little effort.

[Simm0]

6 hours ago, Recluse said:

Hi,  I've read a lot of reviews of the WinWing and Warthog comparisons.  I have been using a Cougar for many years and it is overdue for replacement. Thinking about the WinWing Orion.  What are the springs like on the stick? I got used to the pretty heavy throw of the Cougar (which I guess is similar to the Warthog). Wondering how the Orion is in comparison. In a lot of videos, it seems like the stick moves around with very little effort.

I went from the cougar to the super libra, I'm using the default springs with extension as a centre mount, they do supply tougher springs. The lighter springs are great for more precision that you simply could not achieve with the cougar in my opinion, I can now fly for hours and hours without fatigue. The upgrade was like chalk and cheese and as much as I loved my cougar and it served me well all those years it's no competition.

[Rubber Biscuit]

6 hours ago, Recluse said:

Hi,  I've read a lot of reviews of the WinWing and Warthog comparisons.  I have been using a Cougar for many years and it is overdue for replacement. Thinking about the WinWing Orion.  What are the springs like on the stick? I got used to the pretty heavy throw of the Cougar (which I guess is similar to the Warthog). Wondering how the Orion is in comparison. In a lot of videos, it seems like the stick moves around with very little effort.

I have not used any stick but Thrustmaster t16000, I do like the Orion HOTAS but I find the stick springs a little on the heavy side. I still like using the Orion but would like it if the springs were a little lighter, I would upgrade to lighter springs in they were available. 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Rubber Biscuit

[Recluse]

48 minutes ago, Simm0 said:

I went from the cougar to the super libra, I'm using the default springs with extension as a centre mount, they do supply tougher springs. The lighter springs are great for more precision that you simply could not achieve with the cougar in my opinion, I can now fly for hours and hours without fatigue. The upgrade was like chalk and cheese and as much as I loved my cougar and it served me well all those years it's no competition.

Thanks much for the advice!! Now I just have to justify the price tag!!! Looks like the Orion comes with different springs as well

 

•  

  Quote

   

  • Swappable springs and CAMs.(More CAMs Available in future)

  • Two springs load position for every axis.(Could load 1-4 springs for each axis).

   

   

34 minutes ago, Rubber Biscuit said:

I have not used any stick but Thrustmaster t16000, I do like the Orion HOTAS but I find the stick springs a little on the heavy side. I still like using the Orion but would like it if the springs were a little lighter, I would upgrade to lighter springs in they were available. 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback! As above they advertise swappable springs, or removable springs on the axes but maybe  they don't come standard and they ship with the tougher springs?

I realize it is a very personal choice and what you get used to.

[Simm0]

44 minutes ago, Rubber Biscuit said:

I have not used any stick but Thrustmaster t16000, I do like the Orion HOTAS but I find the stick springs a little on the heavy side. I still like using the Orion but would like it if the springs were a little lighter, I would upgrade to lighter springs in they were available. 

The cougar has some really beasty springs in it I reckon I beefed up my right arm using that stick over the years.
With the extension on I put so little pressure on to move the stick, have you considered trying even just a small extension to help here?

[Recluse]

OOPS!!  My bad on the ORION with swappable springs.. I missed the line ABOVE the ones I quoted:

 

Quote

Follow features are cancel compare to Super Libra Joystick base

So I guess with the Orion, you get what you get as far as springs.

 

[Simm0]

1 hour ago, Recluse said:

OOPS!!  My bad on the ORION with swappable springs.. I missed the line ABOVE the ones I quoted:

 

So I guess with the Orion, you get what you get as far as springs.

 

https://youtu.be/6Z84mg16Efk?t=492

[rooster328]

Back to the original topic of this post which was the poor quality USB connection on the Winwing products. Brand new the Joytstick and Throttle came with very loose connections with a lot of play in the USB housing.  

The USB socket on the Orion Throttle completely came out of the housing and the throttle was out of action till either I chose to repair it or junk it.

I did this initial post because I thought that Winwing did a very very poor job.    I was left no choice but to put some scathing reviews on Reddit and the DCS Forums.    This was my 2nd post on this topic

>>>  I'd suggest you email Winwing  "info@winwing.cn" to ask them about this and that you're concerned it may fail down the road .  It would be terrible if this is a structural weakness that's affecting all their products and have others go through the same grief as I am.   <<<<

It IS A STRUCTURAL WEAKNESS.   The Socket is now Vice Grip tight.  There is now NO PLAY in it.  The technician said there was no reinforcement. Poor solder or soldering technique was used.    He said he placed some extra tie ins to the board.

Winwing made a mistake making it a removable USB connection and they compounded the mistake by doing a half assed job making the USB fit firmly to the Board.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by rooster328

[Recluse]

19 minutes ago, rooster328 said:

It IS A STRUCTURAL WEAKNESS.   The Socket is now Vice Grip tight.  There is now NO PLAY in it.  The technician said there was no reinforcement. Poor solder or soldering technique was used.    He said he placed some extra tie ins to the board.

Winwing made a mistake making it a removable USB connection and they compounded the mistake by doing a half assed job making the USB fit firmly to the Board.

 

 

 

So did you send it back for repair or did they ship you out a new one? I ordered one last week and hoping I don't have this issue

[rooster328]

I repaired it by taking to a electronics shop and paying out of pocket.

They offered to send me a new one if I removed this post.   I said go to hell Ass***.   I feel we as consumers need to know about this crap.  Once ordered our money is gone...we've got no leverage with a company overseas.

If you have ordered one check out the USB connection when you get it and please post if you see it has alot of play in it....ie wiggles side to side. 

I actually got so frustrated I wanted to shelf DCS for good and forget flight sims.....no reflection on DCS I've been a fan since before DCS was DCS (Flanker)

Spending 800$ on a HOTAS system that you have to junk after 5months, well that's pretty demoralizing.

 

Thanks.  

Edited November 16, 2021 by rooster328

[Recluse]

7 hours ago, rooster328 said:

I repaired it by taking to a electronics shop and paying out of pocket.

They offered to send me a new one if I removed this post.   I said go to hell Ass***.   I feel we as consumers need to know about this crap.  Once ordered our money is gone...we've got no leverage with a company overseas.

If you have ordered one check out the USB connection when you get it and please post if you see it has alot of play in it....ie wiggles side to side. 

I actually got so frustrated I wanted to shelf DCS for good and forget flight sims.....no reflection on DCS I've been a fan since before DCS was DCS (Flanker)

Spending 800$ on a HOTAS system that you have to junk after 5months, well that's pretty demoralizing.

 

Thanks.  

 

Ouch. That sucks. Sorry you had to go through that. I agree that for the $$$$$$$ we spend, there is a reasonable expectation of higher quality and better service. Glad you found a reputable place to make the repair. 

[Oban]

18 hours ago, rooster328 said:

Back to the original topic of this post which was the poor quality USB connection on the Winwing products. Brand new the Joytstick and Throttle came with very loose connections with a lot of play in the USB housing.  

The USB socket on the Orion Throttle completely came out of the housing and the throttle was out of action till either I chose to repair it or junk it.

I did this initial post because I thought that Winwing did a very very poor job.    I was left no choice but to put some scathing reviews on Reddit and the DCS Forums.    This was my 2nd post on this topic

>>>  I'd suggest you email Winwing  "info@winwing.cn" to ask them about this and that you're concerned it may fail down the road .  It would be terrible if this is a structural weakness that's affecting all their products and have others go through the same grief as I am.   <<<<

It IS A STRUCTURAL WEAKNESS.   The Socket is now Vice Grip tight.  There is now NO PLAY in it.  The technician said there was no reinforcement. Poor solder or soldering technique was used.    He said he placed some extra tie ins to the board.

Winwing made a mistake making it a removable USB connection and they compounded the mistake by doing a half assed job making the USB fit firmly to the Board.

 

 

 

I don't suppose you ever considered that the handling between China and your destination was a contributing factor of the USB becoming loose? If it's a structural weakness, then every other single Orion would have this issue that came from the same batch.

All too easy for a delicate solder job to break loose if the package wasn't handled with care, and as pointed out before, mass production of any item, there's always a % that slips through QC,  I've seen plenty of horror video's ( baggage handlers throwing items into holds)  to support such instances, there's no doubt you had an issue, nobody was disputing that, and good you got it fixed.

Mustang I believe suggested opening it up and soldering it yourself, and it would seem you took it to a repair shop who did that, I personally think you did get a bad deal, but I also believe your hostility and rudeness didn't help.. but happy for you that it's working, so enjoy..