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Hello Hind drivers,
after lots of practice, and tweak's in the AXIS menu, I am still having an extremely hard time flying the Hind. It is extremely unstable in the hover, and almost impossible to fly in any kind of attitude. 
I'm slowly getting depressed with the Hind...
Your opinions/suggestions.
Regards

Asrock Z270 pro4, i7 6700, gtx 1070

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Make sure you have at least the Pitch and Roll "autopilot" AFCS turned on. That way you will have a assistance to counter the pendular motion of the helicopter and wind gusts (if they exist).

Keep it the cyclic well trimmed (with hat switch of trimmer button) so you don't have to keep the travel of the joystick far from the zero position.

Don't give up. I'm having a lot of fun flying the Hind but also took some time to learn, and I'm still learning, how to fly it.

 

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While Hind might be unstable in hover without any of AP channels engaged, I find it quite stable in forward flight. With Pitch/Roll (I don't use Yaw channel), no problems with stability whatsoever.

If possible, OP, try to arrange flight with someone on public server so you can get some pointers.

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  • ED Team

Besides, any helicopter is unstable in hover... Some practice is necessary to hover.

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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Odd I use no curves on my Hotas warthog and after the initial adjustment to Hinds flight dynamics,  she fly's like a race horse for me.  Hovering is very doable just takes allot of practice and feel the differences of the Hind compared to the other Helo's in dcs.

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Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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9 hours ago, Enduro14 said:

Odd I use no curves on my Hotas warthog and after the initial adjustment to Hinds flight dynamics,  she fly's like a race horse for me.  Hovering is very doable just takes allot of practice and feel the differences of the Hind compared to the other Helo's in dcs.

The hind is I think the only Helo I dont have any curves on. I know different set ups produce different experiences but my T50 with a 100mm extension gives me nice stable control. The tutorials on rotor theory by CASMO have made a huge difference to successfully completing my trips too.

Unlike the Huey which, in my hands remains a Bucking Bronco!

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MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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I swapped the GPU for RTX 3060, and actually the smooth 60FPS , does help a lot! With the GTX 1060 6GB, I got around 40-50 FPS... DCS is becoming more and more hungry after every update!

In any case, I do find the Hind to be:  " A beast" using the "Fly-by" camera while it is hovering 🙂

 

 

Asrock Z270 pro4, i7 6700, gtx 1070

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The Hind is a superb helicopter and with patience and smoothness and taking precautions against vortex rings very good to fly - but I personally am getting very annoyed by this tail rotor authority loss bug and these constantly moving-on-their-own to max left or right rudders (one YouTuber solved that problem with the faulty rudders by constantly doing trim resets every five seconds - but this only sometimes works and most of the time the heli just keeps yawing in circles).

Every second flight the Hind starts yawing in circles after VTOL take-off and just keeps turning in circles even with counter-rudder to the max. This is truly annoying and makes it almost not flyable and I am sure the real Hind is not doing this (because otherwise it would be uncontrollable) - this constant tail rotor authority loss and rudderpedals wandering to max right or max left on their own after one minute of flying and still the helicopter keeps yawing in circles MUST be a bug.

But otherwise an outstanding beautyful and well-behaved helicopter, very enjoyable 🙂 but these wandering off rudder pedals and tail rotor no longer responding and no longer counter-acting the main rotor torque should be patched.


Edited by JetCat
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You rotating against max rudder means you are asking more than it can take. And yes, it does happen in real life and not only with Hind.

Every helicopter will have performance charts, giving you max take off weight for given conditions.

Next time this happens to you, take new helicopter and reduce weight by 100 kgs. Keep doing this until you are get into allwoed range for given conditions.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb JetCat:

The Hind is a superb helicopter and with patience and smoothness and taking precautions against vortex rings very good to fly - but I personally am getting very annoyed by this tail rotor authority loss bug and these constantly moving-on-their-own to max left or right rudders (one YouTuber solved that problem with the faulty rudders by constantly doing trim resets every five seconds - but this only sometimes works and most of the time the heli just keeps yawing in circles).

Every second flight the Hind starts yawing in circles after VTOL take-off and just keeps turning in circles even with counter-rudder to the max. This is truly annoying and makes it almost not flyable and I am sure the real Hind is not doing this (because otherwise it would be uncontrollable) - this constant tail rotor authority loss and rudderpedals wandering to max right or max left on their own after one minute of flying and still the helicopter keeps yawing in circles MUST be a bug.

But otherwise an outstanding beautyful and well-behaved helicopter, very enjoyable 🙂 but these wandering off rudder pedals and tail rotor no longer responding and no longer counter-acting the main rotor torque should be patched.

 

Not sure what you describe. I never experienced that behavior when flying the Mi-24.

There might not be enough right pedal to prevent yaw to the left if you are close to or above max takeoff weight because the system produces too much torc. This is totally fine and correlates with real-life behavior in general. 
That's what admiki is mentioning as well. But with increasing airspeed, the tail rotor loses its importance, and the aircraft never ever shud yaw that much, especially not to the right.  That is also a reason while the Mi-24 has wheels and the capability to take off and land like an aircraft, so the tail rotor thrust is sufficient for the ground, while not much a factor when applying takeoff power with sufficient Air(ground) speed.

 

Always happy landings ;)

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2 hours ago, JetCat said:

The Hind is a superb helicopter and with patience and smoothness and taking precautions against vortex rings very good to fly - but I personally am getting very annoyed by this tail rotor authority loss bug and these constantly moving-on-their-own to max left or right rudders (one YouTuber solved that problem with the faulty rudders by constantly doing trim resets every five seconds - but this only sometimes works and most of the time the heli just keeps yawing in circles).

Every second flight the Hind starts yawing in circles after VTOL take-off and just keeps turning in circles even with counter-rudder to the max. This is truly annoying and makes it almost not flyable and I am sure the real Hind is not doing this (because otherwise it would be uncontrollable) - this constant tail rotor authority loss and rudderpedals wandering to max right or max left on their own after one minute of flying and still the helicopter keeps yawing in circles MUST be a bug.

But otherwise an outstanding beautyful and well-behaved helicopter, very enjoyable 🙂 but these wandering off rudder pedals and tail rotor no longer responding and no longer counter-acting the main rotor torque should be patched.

 

 I experience this is ony when I clutz the collective or get the module into an overmax situation of my own making. Power and Torque prediction, weights and conditions.  

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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5 hours ago, JetCat said:

The Hind is a superb helicopter and with patience and smoothness and taking precautions against vortex rings very good to fly - but I personally am getting very annoyed by this tail rotor authority loss bug and these constantly moving-on-their-own to max left or right rudders (one YouTuber solved that problem with the faulty rudders by constantly doing trim resets every five seconds - but this only sometimes works and most of the time the heli just keeps yawing in circles).

Every second flight the Hind starts yawing in circles after VTOL take-off and just keeps turning in circles even with counter-rudder to the max. This is truly annoying and makes it almost not flyable and I am sure the real Hind is not doing this (because otherwise it would be uncontrollable) - this constant tail rotor authority loss and rudderpedals wandering to max right or max left on their own after one minute of flying and still the helicopter keeps yawing in circles MUST be a bug.

But otherwise an outstanding beautyful and well-behaved helicopter, very enjoyable 🙂 but these wandering off rudder pedals and tail rotor no longer responding and no longer counter-acting the main rotor torque should be patched.

 

Serious question, are you flying with keybord? (Not meant to be negative!)

I never experienced this or i expected it(not enough right rudder authority because of my weight/weather).

@kalas1988 Could you please provide a track? I have no problems flying or hovering the Hind, but i also have hundreds of hours in the Mi-8, so the Hind kinda felt like home from the first second.


Edited by unknown

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1

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On 11/4/2021 at 2:56 PM, Quati said:

Make sure you have at least the Pitch and Roll "autopilot" AFCS turned on. That way you will have a assistance to counter the pendular motion of the helicopter and wind gusts (if they exist).

Keep it the cyclic well trimmed (with hat switch of trimmer button) so you don't have to keep the travel of the joystick far from the zero position.

Don't give up. I'm having a lot of fun flying the Hind but also took some time to learn, and I'm still learning, how to fly it.

 

Seconded.

Roll and pitch must be on by default, I learnt the same in the MI-8.

For me yaw and altitude APs are just surplus to requirement and a rarely used unless convenient to do so!

If you are learning choppers for the first time then you must use the joystick cheat positions image, you must know where your trimmed virtual cyclic is in relation to your real self centring joystick, it is critical!

Perhaps start with the hover trim. Set the trim as noted in the starter guide using the joystick cheat. Concentrate on the hover..... Trim and note how it looks in the joystick cheat.

From there get moving forward by slightly nudging the cyclic forward and then slightly nudge back to hover again. 

Small steps.

 

You have chosen the best modelled chopper in DCS to learn Choppers, you are right in the deep end. Personally... I like that.


Edited by Rogue Trooper

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I'm using a VKB Gunfighter Mk III. base with curved extension and TM F16 grip. It's perfect for Mi8 but it seems that some curves for the Mi24 pitch axis is not correct.

I always use linear assignment without curves and then check out the stick movement in the cockpit (VR only) to be in synch with my real stick movement.

With the Mi24 the pich axis is really off-sync: when I try to PUSH the stick it moves much more in the VR cockpit than IRL (small movement of my real stick translates to very harsh push in the cockpit). The PULL direction is much better, but it's obvious that the assignment is not linear. I had to use some curve to be able to fly the chopper without constant pitching back and forth.

The roll axis in linear setting seems OK.

It seems a massive bug for me, but I'm not reporting it since someone can confirm.

EDIT: It was user error, I should have checked the VKB calibration, which solved the problems. Now the Hind is a dream to fly.


Edited by St4rgun
  • PC: 10700K | Gigabyte Z490 | Palit 3090 GamingPro | 32GB | Win10
  • HMD: HP Reverb G2 | OpenXR @ 120% | OpenXR Toolkit: exposure, brightness, saturation | DCS 2.9: DLAA with Sharpening 0.5 (no upscaling)
  • Controllers: VKB Gunfighter MkIII base & 200 mm curved extension center mounted + TM F16 Grip / MCG Pro Grip | TM TFRP
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VKB base with 200 mil extension. Just tested it and behaves completely normal. Check your DCS settings (DCS is known to mess with your settings at updates) and check your base with VKB software. 

Since you say that it behaves normal with Mi8, I'm guessing something is off with your DCS settings.

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On 11/8/2021 at 12:50 PM, JetCat said:

The Hind is a superb helicopter and with patience and smoothness and taking precautions against vortex rings very good to fly - but I personally am getting very annoyed by this tail rotor authority loss bug and these constantly moving-on-their-own to max left or right rudders (one YouTuber solved that problem with the faulty rudders by constantly doing trim resets every five seconds - but this only sometimes works and most of the time the heli just keeps yawing in circles).

Every second flight the Hind starts yawing in circles after VTOL take-off and just keeps turning in circles even with counter-rudder to the max. This is truly annoying and makes it almost not flyable and I am sure the real Hind is not doing this (because otherwise it would be uncontrollable) - this constant tail rotor authority loss and rudderpedals wandering to max right or max left on their own after one minute of flying and still the helicopter keeps yawing in circles MUST be a bug.

But otherwise an outstanding beautyful and well-behaved helicopter, very enjoyable 🙂 but these wandering off rudder pedals and tail rotor no longer responding and no longer counter-acting the main rotor torque should be patched.

 

I have a serious suspiscion your Hind is overweighted. If you fly custom missions from the editor, check out you are not near max weight. It's very easy to want to put max payload thinking you need that, while not removing corresponding fuel weight and keep max fuel.

Under these circumstances, the Hind will very often behave like you describe. Hot weather, high altitude, and most importantly, higly loaded, you will need to ask for too much just to do basics.

These circumstances can happen. A good way to get around these lack of power issues is to take maximum advantage of ETL and only do running, long distance take-off and landing, plane-style. Russian prefer wheeled choppers for this reason, amongst others. Vertical take-off and landing are not mandatory in a chopper, they put you in an unstable, high power profile that you should try to avoid if you can.

And little tip to anticipate a possible loss of tail rotor authority : keep an eye on the rotor blades pitch indicator (bottom left if I'm not mistaken). Above 10, you are entering the danger zone, keep your speed and avoid sudden collective change (this should be a rule of you in a heavy chopper anyway, no sudden movement). At 12-13, you are garanteed to have power issues, unless flying fast.

Last thing about the "no sudden movement" rule, in a heavy chopper like Hind or HIP with very large, 5 blades rotor, the inertia is real, and the gear-shaft system will struggle quite a bit to keep the RPM of the rotor constant when you suddenly ask for a rotor blade pitch change (thus a change in friction, thus a change in force needed to rotate the rotor). This will transition temporarily the chopper into a bad situation where the system tries to counter the loss of RPM by asking more and more power , reducing what is available to the tail rotor, just to keep up the pace of the change in friction. Avoid this by anticipating all your collective movements and force you to move it slowly. vsTerminus has made a great Mi8 video that shows this (amongst the ton of excellent content he has done on DCS choppers) and shows how to train to stay within proper collective change margins.

 

With the ease to overweigth the bird, many little bad habits can easily lead to what you witness.


Edited by Whisper

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

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While I agree with Whisper, one thing he is wrong at is that main rotor will take power away from tailrotor. There is no power shift between the two. Both of them are hard geared with the transmission, but due to gearing, any rotor droop will affect tailrotor more. 

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There's definitely more impact on the tail rotor available power since we witness loss of tail rotor authority while keeping the chopper more or less in a hover ("more or less" due to the chaotic rotation of the bird 😄 ), don't you think?

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

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7 hours ago, admiki said:

VKB base with 200 mil extension. Just tested it and behaves completely normal. Check your DCS settings (DCS is known to mess with your settings at updates) and check your base with VKB software. 

Since you say that it behaves normal with Mi8, I'm guessing something is off with your DCS settings.

Thanks for the idea, I was a total noob. Forgot to check the calibration in VKB software. After proper fresh calibration now everyting is perfect.

  • PC: 10700K | Gigabyte Z490 | Palit 3090 GamingPro | 32GB | Win10
  • HMD: HP Reverb G2 | OpenXR @ 120% | OpenXR Toolkit: exposure, brightness, saturation | DCS 2.9: DLAA with Sharpening 0.5 (no upscaling)
  • Controllers: VKB Gunfighter MkIII base & 200 mm curved extension center mounted + TM F16 Grip / MCG Pro Grip | TM TFRP
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13 hours ago, Whisper said:

There's definitely more impact on the tail rotor available power since we witness loss of tail rotor authority while keeping the chopper more or less in a hover ("more or less" due to the chaotic rotation of the bird 😄 ), don't you think?

Well, yes, I said that already. But it's not available power that is decreasing, it's tailrotor efficiency droping. Due to transmission gearing, drop of 30 RPM for main rotor can be 200-300 RPM drop for tailrotor. While percentage drop is the same for both main and tailrotor, lift equation suffers more for tailrotor. Hence "no tailrotor power".

10 hours ago, St4rgun said:

Thanks for the idea, I was a total noob. Forgot to check the calibration in VKB software. After proper fresh calibration now everyting is perfect.

OK, but it's strange how it was all normal for the Mi8? If calibration was out, it should affect all the modules the same.

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