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Cyclic extension and grip weight issues


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OK, my rainman gooseneck cyclic rod has arrived, but the weight of the grip plus the increased leverage of the cyclic extension means there is no way the stick can hold itself anywhere near the centre position. 

What do you Helo guys do to get around this? I am using a warthog joystick gimbal base currently, but could look at something better ? 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Sadly the warthog isn't known to handle the weight of a stick extension that well, it just wasn't designed for it. I've gotten around that by using a Virpil T-50CM2 base which is specifically designed to handle stick extensions. Virpil gear is compatible and interchangeable with the Thrustmaster Warthog gear so if you are happy with your existing grip, just getting the base from them would solve your issue.

I'm sure there are ways to make it work with the warthog base that don't involve throwing money at it but that's the easiest guaranteed to work solution if you don't mind paying a little.

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Would the warbird base do the job ? I just brought a T50CM2 to upgrade my hornet pit and was hoping to avoid spending anoother £280 !! 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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From the virpil website:
"While it is possible to use extensions on the VPC WarBRD base, it is primarily designed for non-extended use. Due to the large deflection angle it is possible that you may encounter clearance issues between the grip and the VPC Desk Mount. During certain maneuvers it could be possible to damage your grip by hitting the desk mount. The included cams and springs are also tailored for non-extended setups.

Using any extensions on the VPC WarBRD is at the user's responsibility. Any damages caused to VPC devices (grips) by using an extension on the VPC WarBRD base will not be covered under warranty. There is no concern to the VPC WarBRD itself when using extensions."

So, it may work, but no guarantee. The T50CM2 is the only one specifically designed for heavy extension use and its what I use with a large metal gooseneck and it works flawlessly.

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Warbrd for tabletop, CM2 for pit with extensions .

 

Back in a day I added bunch of hair scrunchies to the TMWH base. It made things markedly better. Today I  run with CM2 with the long extension. Heavy spring fully tensioner provides for usable resistance (wish it would be a bit more)

 

2vrH1epnxUHnUD.jpg


Edited by agrasyuk

Anton.

 

My pit build thread .

Simple and cheap UFC project

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Thanks guys, OK, wallet, prepare to take a bashing.....Or.....I guess I could get the warbird and swap that into my Hornet pit, which does not use an extension and put the T50CM2 in the Helo seat........ then not so much of a wallet bashing!!

 

Does anyone know if the base plate is removeable on the warbird and if the main enclosure shares the same size and format of mounting holes as the T50CM2 ?


Edited by markturner1960

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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  • 4 months later...
3 hours ago, Mr_Burns said:

Sorry to hijack the thread but my TM Warthog is so heavy and the force needed to move it from centre is annoying me in the Apache, would a simple extension make it better?

It would help, but obviously the range of motion would be increased, so you might found the location you have it in currently becomes less suitable, especially if it's on a desk mounted high up.  

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3 hours ago, Mr_Burns said:

Sorry to hijack the thread but my TM Warthog is so heavy and the force needed to move it from centre is annoying me in the Apache, would a simple extension make it better?

I have a full metal TM warthog grip on a 20 cm extension on a VKB base. The heavy top weight and long leverage makes it very soft and wobly even with the strongest springs provided by vkb. I like it a lot, especially for helicopter flying, because it gives me a lot of fine control and the high precision of the gunfighter makes recentering pretty easy. It is a „special“ kind of feel though, compared to a regular joystick, and perhaps does not suit everyone.


Edited by Hiob
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"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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So I went back to the standard springs but with a 100mm extension. This is pretty good to use and although it centres, the spring is weak enough to not stress your muscles holding it in position for long periods.

  • Like 1

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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31 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

So I went back to the standard springs but with a 100mm extension. This is pretty good to use and although it centres, the spring is weak enough to not stress your muscles holding it in position for long periods.

Hey Mark! Out of curiosity. It seems you're a "hardware collector" from various other posts. 😉

Any reason you haven't tried the Brunner yet? 

Cheers! 

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Hmmm....you got me thinking! The FFB is great in my sim racing set up, maybe this would add something to my sim experience? I guess I was thinking that there is not too much feeling that comes through a stick in a jet, especially when they are fly by wire, but having never tried it, I guess I dont know! 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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3 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Hmmm....you got me thinking! The FFB is great in my sim racing set up, maybe this would add something to my sim experience? I guess I was thinking that there is not too much feeling that comes through a stick in a jet, especially when they are fly by wire, but having never tried it, I guess I dont know! 

I was mostly referring to "only" to helicopters actually, since this is the Apache thread. It will remove "all" trim issues. 😉

But it's also really nice in warbirds and other modules so you can feel stalls and loss of control etc. Not really applicable in the FBW jets of course.
You might find a second hand MS FFB2 that will probably cost you a tenth of the Brunner price though.

Cheers!

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