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Apache profile using Helios for a second monitor


sobe

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17 minutes ago, hreich said:

Just a quick info - i have KU screen export visible on my tablet, and when switching to CPG i see only central TEDAC display....No left no right MFD for pilot or copilot...What am i missing here?

I suspect it is the X and y coordinates of your viewport exports (like the MFD's). Are they correct? What is the resolution of the touch screen you are using? 

 

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Osram - what is that black gadget with encoders shown on your cockpit configuration= It looks cool?

 

8 minutes ago, SparrowHawk003 said:

I suspect it is the X and y coordinates of your viewport exports (like the MFD's). Are they correct? What is the resolution of the touch screen you are using? 

 

Main and exported screen both are 1920x1080...KU and TEDAC screen are exported fine...I checked tutorial again, and i even comented out the cpg mfd screens per pdf tutorial, but still no export on mfds...

Also when i press touch screeen buttons my main view shifts/move a little..I dont remember before it did that...


Edited by hreich

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It's really hard to provide support in E-mail style through a forum. From what I understand you are running spacedesk and try to have 1 windows-monitor and two emulated/exported tablets being used through this helios-profile? Or is that just the idea to have 1 windows monitor + 1 tablet screen?

if you want to somehow "split" or redistribute this profile it would have to somehow be done by editing the profile itself. which shouldn't be too much of a problem. but not by default. or maybe only if it's spread across two screens side to side, for example. if they somehow are set to "emulating" one single screen. no idea.

the numbers you show me from the file look quite off tbh. here's mine for example with a 2506x1440 main/primary screen ontop of a 1920x1080 touch-screen in windows.
you should get correct numbers generated to the file by simply performing a monitor reset AND saving, re-opening, simply ensuring that it sees something is wrong in interface status... for you to reconfig again) - so it can regenerate.  however this would have to be performed with the tablet turned on. and also ensured to your solution to provide an actual-windows monitor "emulation".

IF... I understood things correctly. Or are those 2-3 regular, fully fledged "windows monitors"?

When it comes to tablets. This was never tested with this profile. And is a special setup. Plus you are asking for answers/support in the entirely wrong thread?
I also provided my discord ID. if things don't work out. I am happy to test together. But not in E-Mail style for a rather complex topic/application with many unknown variables. i.e. your setup.

here my current example with deactivated CPG MFD's.

Helios/DCS should internally (Monitor Reset?) treat my example as 2560x1440 + 1920x1080. so a total of 2560x2520. For my screens setup side by side the full area you need to "envision" to calculate.. would be 4480x1440. (a small part is always lost/empty) And IF the bottom screen is the primary, afaik things would have to be possibly shifted using negative X/Y values. not certain. the "safest" is primary left and secondary right according to some more experienced people. but I had it running in all sorts of constellations, left/right and bottom/top with primary/secondary reversed but it can lead to wierd behaviour idd. some also say best to use primary left and secondary right for "best results" - even if it means they define it "wrongly" in windows. (resulting in wierd mouse movement to move across screen borders) - i prefer primary top, secondary bottom. and it works well.

depending if you have a setup above or below eachother... or where the the "exported" MFD's should be positioned. using X and Y position.

you will understand when you look at my example file. knowing and comparing with my monitor setup I described.

normally the center viewport is your main screen. it doesnt need to be touched much, usually and pretty sure it should not be only 1920x1080?

unless shifting to a secondary below or right with added X/Y values. dx/dy is only used for special three-monitor setups. where internal 2-monitor setups cannot be handled and extra shifting offset is needed to correctly position.

for anything else. I'm happy to help in a discord voice/screenshare session etc.
and for future. better in the proper thread 😛

----

_ = function(p) return p end

name = _('H_AH64D_Multiseat_SwitchPit')

description = 'Generated from Helios Profile AH64D_Multiseat_SwitchPit'

AH64_CPG_KU = { x = 720, y = 2080, width = 480, height = 60 }

-- AH64_LEFT_CPG_MFD = { x = 80, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_LEFT_PLT_MFD = { x = 80, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_PLT_KU = { x = 720, y = 2080, width = 480, height = 60 }

-- AH64_RIGHT_CPG_MFD = { x = 1360, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_RIGHT_PLT_MFD = { x = 1360, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_TEDAC = { x = 720, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

Viewports = {

Center = {

x = 0,

y = 0,

width = 2560,

height = 1440,

aspect = 1.77777777777778,

dx = 0,

dy = 0

}

}

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

GU_MAIN_VIEWPORT = Viewports.Center


Edited by osram

 

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Hit me up on discord; oze#2672 if you still have issues. it will probably be solved in a couple minutes. Much easier that way.

That is a Behringer X-Touch Mini Midi/Audio device btw that can be used to control certain Apps and also DCS.
Using python py2vjoy and vjoy midi can be used/converted as regular Joystick, buttons, axis etc. But requires some work and setup. Not done in 5min. but doable in 1-2h.

I was wondering why it would take so long for someone to ask 😛

It's basically one of the best/cheapest "Sim" controllers for 50-60 bucks translating to dualmode... 2x8 endless encoder-wheels with LED indicators. 2x16 buttons. (momentary or modal)... and 2x+ fader/axis.

Something actually no other "dedicated" purchasable  sim device can do. at least not that I know of. and certainly not at this quality or price.

image.png

I could even use the setup to control DCS with something like this. 😄 Just a "bit" large and "slightly" cumbersome at 10-12kgs.
BUT... it would the one of the most expensive DCS "Joysticks" and rather cool.. for sure.


Novation Summit » Buy online in the Recordcase DJ-Shop
 


Edited by osram

 

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On 3/31/2022 at 7:48 PM, osram said:

It's really hard to provide support in E-mail style through a forum. From what I understand you are running spacedesk and try to have 1 windows-monitor and two emulated/exported tablets being used through this helios-profile? Or is that just the idea to have 1 windows monitor + 1 tablet screen?

if you want to somehow "split" or redistribute this profile it would have to somehow be done by editing the profile itself. which shouldn't be too much of a problem. but not by default. or maybe only if it's spread across two screens side to side, for example. if they somehow are set to "emulating" one single screen. no idea.

the numbers you show me from the file look quite off tbh. here's mine for example with a 2506x1440 main/primary screen ontop of a 1920x1080 touch-screen in windows.
you should get correct numbers generated to the file by simply performing a monitor reset AND saving, re-opening, simply ensuring that it sees something is wrong in interface status... for you to reconfig again) - so it can regenerate.  however this would have to be performed with the tablet turned on. and also ensured to your solution to provide an actual-windows monitor "emulation".

IF... I understood things correctly. Or are those 2-3 regular, fully fledged "windows monitors"?

When it comes to tablets. This was never tested with this profile. And is a special setup. Plus you are asking for answers/support in the entirely wrong thread?
I also provided my discord ID. if things don't work out. I am happy to test together. But not in E-Mail style for a rather complex topic/application with many unknown variables. i.e. your setup.

here my current example with deactivated CPG MFD's.

Helios/DCS should internally (Monitor Reset?) treat my example as 2560x1440 + 1920x1080. so a total of 2560x2520. For my screens setup side by side the full area you need to "envision" to calculate.. would be 4480x1440. (a small part is always lost/empty) And IF the bottom screen is the primary, afaik things would have to be possibly shifted using negative X/Y values. not certain. the "safest" is primary left and secondary right according to some more experienced people. but I had it running in all sorts of constellations, left/right and bottom/top with primary/secondary reversed but it can lead to wierd behaviour idd. some also say best to use primary left and secondary right for "best results" - even if it means they define it "wrongly" in windows. (resulting in wierd mouse movement to move across screen borders) - i prefer primary top, secondary bottom. and it works well.

depending if you have a setup above or below eachother... or where the the "exported" MFD's should be positioned. using X and Y position.

you will understand when you look at my example file. knowing and comparing with my monitor setup I described.

normally the center viewport is your main screen. it doesnt need to be touched much, usually and pretty sure it should not be only 1920x1080?

unless shifting to a secondary below or right with added X/Y values. dx/dy is only used for special three-monitor setups. where internal 2-monitor setups cannot be handled and extra shifting offset is needed to correctly position.

for anything else. I'm happy to help in a discord voice/screenshare session etc.
and for future. better in the proper thread 😛

----

_ = function(p) return p end

name = _('H_AH64D_Multiseat_SwitchPit')

description = 'Generated from Helios Profile AH64D_Multiseat_SwitchPit'

AH64_CPG_KU = { x = 720, y = 2080, width = 480, height = 60 }

-- AH64_LEFT_CPG_MFD = { x = 80, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_LEFT_PLT_MFD = { x = 80, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_PLT_KU = { x = 720, y = 2080, width = 480, height = 60 }

-- AH64_RIGHT_CPG_MFD = { x = 1360, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_RIGHT_PLT_MFD = { x = 1360, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

AH64_TEDAC = { x = 720, y = 1520, width = 480, height = 480 }

Viewports = {

Center = {

x = 0,

y = 0,

width = 2560,

height = 1440,

aspect = 1.77777777777778,

dx = 0,

dy = 0

}

}

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

GU_MAIN_VIEWPORT = Viewports.Center

 

Ok thanks for info, will check your entire  post..I am using only one main monitor for DCS cockpit and tablet for helios export...Each is 1920*1080...

 

Latest update: i just gone through pdf tutorial again and used zip file of v0.04 profile, and now everything works fine...thanks  everybody

Latestes update: I had to comment out two linef for CPG MFD exports to get it working


Edited by hreich
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Pilot from Croatia

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Also:

Your last three lines have one extra/obsolete UI = { ... } line?
Not sure where that comes from, could be the issue?

Try only having these 2 lines instead of the 3. Comparing to my file content.

Edit: Yea... v 0.0.4 certainly works better, setup in a cleaner way and it seemed like that generated file was rather off.

---

If you have some energy/patience after a while again.
Would be interesting for people to know how you setup your spacedesk-app or whatever you use for the monitor-emulation.
So other DCS people can enjoy "poorman's" tablet touch as well. 😛

Feel free to leave a feedback on the actual TouchPit thread about how (hopefully well) this profile runs despite smaller screen? 😛
It should do rather fine comparing to what I remember from more classic/stylized "cockpitish" profiles.


I hope you can finally enjoy o/

 

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Flankersea

Now that I have had a chance to use your profile, I wanted to congratulate you on a terrific job of modifying Bunny's interface to make the profile very usable and the MFDs are nice and large.

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Trackir4 using the latest Trackir 5 software, Win10 Pro [Creator Update] updated from Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel® Core™ i5-2500 3.30 GHz 6M Intel Smart Cache LGA115 , GigaByte GA-Z68XP-UD4 Intel Z68 Chipset DDR3 16GB Ram, GTX MSI Gaming 1060 [6 GB] Video Card, Main Monitor 1 on left 1920x1080 Touchscreen Monitor 2 on right 1920x1080 .

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Helios users might want to look at: 

 

Trackir4 using the latest Trackir 5 software, Win10 Pro [Creator Update] updated from Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel® Core™ i5-2500 3.30 GHz 6M Intel Smart Cache LGA115 , GigaByte GA-Z68XP-UD4 Intel Z68 Chipset DDR3 16GB Ram, GTX MSI Gaming 1060 [6 GB] Video Card, Main Monitor 1 on left 1920x1080 Touchscreen Monitor 2 on right 1920x1080 .

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4小时前,sobe说:

Flankersea

Now that I have had a chance to use your profile, I wanted to congratulate you on a terrific job of modifying Bunny's interface to make the profile very usable and the MFDs are nice and large.

I'm glad that the profile can help you.Recently my Helios just running unsteadily,sometimes it have a terrible delay,changging the screen refresh rate do a little help but can‘t maintain too much

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4 hours ago, Flankersea said:

I'm glad that the profile can help you.Recently my Helios just running unsteadily,sometimes it have a terrible delay,changging the screen refresh rate do a little help but can‘t maintain too much

This is a DCS problem where DCS uses up 100% of your Graphics card VRAM and leave nothing for helios.  Process Lasso can help by making Helios a high priority process, but the best best fix is to cap your DCS framerate at something slightly lower than the maximum your PC will achieve in DCS, making sure there is always a bit of spare capacity for Helios. 

 

There is quite a lot of discussion about this in the Helios 1.6 thread starting here:

 

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2022/3/30 AM6点08分,Bunny Clark说:

I think a lot of the confusion here is that there are three things going on at once right now:

1) The DCS Apache has bugged monitor exports. I've gotten around the problem for now by disabling the CPG screen exports in favor of correctly showing the Pilot screens, but this method potentially breaks other modules. Without putzing with the display init.lua files and your monitor config, you will only ever see the CPG screens, as they are drawn on top of the Pilot screens. For this to really start working well will require a fix from ED.

2) The current build of Helios does not support the Apache. I have created a new Interface file for the Apache which serves as a translation system between Helios and DCS for things like button presses, axis positions, and indicator lights. These files are normally installed with Helios and available right away, but because this is all new, you need to download my Interface file and copy it into your Helios install directory. I have submitted my work upstream to Helios, so it should hopefully be included with the next update and save people from having to do this step. 

3)  I shared my profile for people to use and modify how they like. This should be installable like any other Helios profile, but it does require the Interface from Point 2 to function properly. If you want display exports from DCS to work with it, you'll also have to solve Point 1. This adds a few additional steps beyond what normally is required to get a profile installed and working.

Cptn Zeen has some great tutorials for Helios on his YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH3vOMBzNRnTliVQmhhrjng/videos

The Helios User Guide also has some great info for creating and modifying profiles: https://github.com/HeliosVirtualCockpit/Helios/blob/master/Helios/Docs/Helios Release 1.4 Users Guide.pdf

HI Bunny,I‘m studying your AH64D hif.json to add some new button. I have found the Pilot Unlock wheel Button‘s ID is 308,but I can't understand how to find the pushId and releaseID.Cptn Zeen seems to choose 3001~3229 optionally.I tried 3051 and 3100 but it didnt work.Could you help me?Thank you!

 

{
      "heliosType": "DCS.Common.PushButton",
      "device": "Test Panel",
      "name": "Pilot Unlock wheel Button",
      "description": "Current state of this button.",
      "exports": [
        {
          "format": "%1d",
          "isExportedEveryFrame": false,
          "id": "308"
        }
      ],
      "buttons": [
        {
          "deviceId": "3",
          "pushId": "3100",
          "pushValue": "1",
          "releaseId": "3100",
          "releaseValue": "0"
        }
      ]
    },

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Just a quick guide-ish post for using tablet for second 1920*1080 touch screen...After setting up everything per guide from this post: ".

I am using free space desk app from this post  https://www.spacedesk.net/ to have my tablet act as second screen on which i see extracted MFDs and using tablet for button presses..Because small-ish 10" size of tablet, buttons are kind-a-small but it's a good poor's man panel with different helios profiles for different modules in dcs...Its working quite good, and if your tablet is fast you can get fine results..All the setup in spacedesk is automatic, you only have to install server version on pc, and one client version on your tablet...Then after launching and entering ip address of your pc on tablet app, your screen will automatically change to two screen setup... 

 


Edited by hreich
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Pilot from Croatia

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2 hours ago, Flankersea said:

but I can't understand how to find the pushId and releaseID.

Hey, since you're not the first to ask this type of question, I'll walk you through it here. 

Most of the files we'll be looking at are found in Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts.

You've already mostly figured this part out, but start with the clickabledata.lua file. This will give you the "id" value, but it will also give you the device name, which we won't type into the JSON file, but we'll need next. 

clickabledata.jpg

Here we can see the id is 308 and the device is HYDRO_INTERFACE. Type 308 into the "id" field and remember the device.

Next we'll find deviceId. For that open the devices.lua file and search for the device name you found in the previous step. The Find function in your editor is a big help in every step of this process. Here's where it is in the devices file:

devices.jpg

Now we need to do something slightly annoying, and this will be a theme later on too. The deviceId is enumerated from the start of this file and incremented all the way down. So you need to count, starting from the top. Only count devices though, not every line. Only lines with devices count. Every time I find a deviceId I add it to this file as a comment (you can see I've found the lighting system id in the past), making this process a bit easier as you work. Thankfully the HYDRO_INTERFACE is near the top of the file, counting down we find it is device 5. Type this into "deviceId".

Next we need to find the action id number. This is in the command_defs.lua file. We'll do counting similar to the previous step, but thankfully not through the entire file. 

command defs.jpg

Every time there is a reset_counter() header, we start counting over. This makes things rather a bit simpler. These counts almost always start at 3001 - you can check this in the file header if you want, but I've always found them to be 3000. The command we're looking for is the third on the list, so our action id is 3003. For a button, this becomes the pushId and releaseId. 

The final step isn't strictly necessary, but I'll walk through it as an example. We'll navigate to a new path, this time Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Input\AH-64D_PLT\joystick\ and open the default.lua file. Again, look for the command we're mapping. Since this is the file that creates all the available control bindings not everything will be in here, but it's often helpful. Here we find:

default.jpgThis shows us the value for each position of the button. In this case down = 1.0 and up = 0.0. These become the pushValue and releaseValue. This isn't surprising, as these are the normal values for a button, and I normally wouldn't even bother looking them up for a button object. When mapping switches though, it's often helpful to see which switch position is which value.  

Put it all together, and you get this:

{
      "heliosType": "DCS.Common.PushButton",
      "device": "NVS Mode Panel",
      "name": "TAIL WHEEL Pushbutton",
      "description": "Current state of this button.",
      "exports": [
        {
          "format": "%1d",
          "isExportedEveryFrame": false,
          "id": "308"
        }
      ],
      "buttons": [
        {
          "deviceId": "5",
          "pushId": "3003",
          "pushValue": "1",
          "releaseId": "3003",
          "releaseValue": "0"
        }
      ]
    },

I generally use the name from the clickabledata file, which is what I've used here. 

Hope that helps!

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11小时前,Bunny Clark说:

Hey, since you're not the first to ask this type of question, I'll walk you through it here. 

Most of the files we'll be looking at are found in Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts.

You've already mostly figured this part out, but start with the clickabledata.lua file. This will give you the "id" value, but it will also give you the device name, which we won't type into the JSON file, but we'll need next. 

clickabledata.jpg

Here we can see the id is 308 and the device is HYDRO_INTERFACE. Type 308 into the "id" field and remember the device.

Next we'll find deviceId. For that open the devices.lua file and search for the device name you found in the previous step. The Find function in your editor is a big help in every step of this process. Here's where it is in the devices file:

devices.jpg

Now we need to do something slightly annoying, and this will be a theme later on too. The deviceId is enumerated from the start of this file and incremented all the way down. So you need to count, starting from the top. Only count devices though, not every line. Only lines with devices count. Every time I find a deviceId I add it to this file as a comment (you can see I've found the lighting system id in the past), making this process a bit easier as you work. Thankfully the HYDRO_INTERFACE is near the top of the file, counting down we find it is device 5. Type this into "deviceId".

Next we need to find the action id number. This is in the command_defs.lua file. We'll do counting similar to the previous step, but thankfully not through the entire file. 

command defs.jpg

Every time there is a reset_counter() header, we start counting over. This makes things rather a bit simpler. These counts almost always start at 3001 - you can check this in the file header if you want, but I've always found them to be 3000. The command we're looking for is the third on the list, so our action id is 3003. For a button, this becomes the pushId and releaseId. 

The final step isn't strictly necessary, but I'll walk through it as an example. We'll navigate to a new path, this time Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Input\AH-64D_PLT\joystick\ and open the default.lua file. Again, look for the command we're mapping. Since this is the file that creates all the available control bindings not everything will be in here, but it's often helpful. Here we find:

default.jpgThis shows us the value for each position of the button. In this case down = 1.0 and up = 0.0. These become the pushValue and releaseValue. This isn't surprising, as these are the normal values for a button, and I normally wouldn't even bother looking them up for a button object. When mapping switches though, it's often helpful to see which switch position is which value.  

Put it all together, and you get this:

{
      "heliosType": "DCS.Common.PushButton",
      "device": "NVS Mode Panel",
      "name": "TAIL WHEEL Pushbutton",
      "description": "Current state of this button.",
      "exports": [
        {
          "format": "%1d",
          "isExportedEveryFrame": false,
          "id": "308"
        }
      ],
      "buttons": [
        {
          "deviceId": "5",
          "pushId": "3003",
          "pushValue": "1",
          "releaseId": "3003",
          "releaseValue": "0"
        }
      ]
    },

I generally use the name from the clickabledata file, which is what I've used here. 

Hope that helps!

Thank you very much for the tutorial.It helps a lot!I just realized the sequence of the command is related to the ID,tha‘s cool!👍

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Potential workaround for multiplayer/MFD hotswitching. Thanks to @Fasu's relentless questions and some lovely, dynamic inspiration:
At least for people who fly frequently together. When using my, or any switchable Helios Profile. OR possibly worth testing/documenting/sharing a Reshade render-order workaround mentioned by other users. Depending on how long it takes for an ED fix. 😕

 

  1.  
  2. Now that we talk about it; I haven't tested but should actually work: You could even only "export" one PLT and one CPG viewport in the monitor setup, only commenting out one CPG MFD side. You'd lose an MFD - but you could actually control both with a bit of practice. The partner could do the same but reversed. And then "hotswitching" in multiplayer after resetting the role/aircraft - Would actually be possible, if I'm not mistaken. Even if it meant to only have min. 1 MFD for full functionality. For most things it would actually be two fully functional MFD's. But if PLT for example agrees always to have left mfd PLT and right CPG. And his Co-Pilot friend, the left MFD CPG, and right PLT. It should actually work rather well without dcs restarts - With a bit of "agreements". (edited)
     

Edited by osram

 

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Great work @Bunny Clark. Much appreciate your hard work and effort in making this happen. I downloaded/installed your profile as instructed. However, my MPD's are still not able to receive the exported overlays from DCS. Any ideas on what I may have done wrong during the installation process, or perhaps overlooked?

 

Otherwise, all the buttons are functional and accessible, both in Pilot and CPG mode

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18 hours ago, Alpha_Mo66 said:

However, my MPD's are still not able to receive the exported overlays from DCS. Any ideas on what I may have done wrong during the installation process, or perhaps overlooked?

Apache display exports are temperamental right now. You can find some info on it looking back over this thread, otherwise a good summary of where we are can be found here: 

 

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Okkkk.. we are making progress. I am able to receive MFD overlays. However, they seem to be static on TSD page (RMFD) and WPN page (LMFD). Any suggestions on how i can turn them into interactive overlays?


Edited by Alpha_Mo66
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I don't know if this is the right place, but it seems people have some experience with external monitors here. My export of the MPDs to my small monitors works but it's very, very dark (video brightness knob already turned fully up, tried night mode, too). In game MPD screens  look fine. I don't have this issue with the A10 MFDs. Any ideas? Can I adjust brightness anywhere? 


Edited by Tobur
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1 hour ago, Tobur said:

I don't know if this is the right place, but it seems people have some experience with external monitors here. My export of the MPDs to my small monitors works but it's very, very dark (video brightness knob already turned fully up, tried night mode, too). In game MPD screens  look fine. I don't have this issue with the A10 MFDs. Any ideas? Can I adjust brightness anywhere? 

 

Short answer - no.  This bug has affected all ED flagship modules since the Hornet released.  It affects both Hornet screens, all Apache screens, and I understand one of the Viper MFDs (although that may be fixed).  It's something to do with the way ED render exported displays and despite it being bug reported and acknowledged since 2021 there has never been an update from ED on a projected fix.  The Apache is worse than the Hornet (as in, the exported displays are darker).

The current best workaround is to use ReShade to MASSIVLY boost the brightness of the DCS rendering on your second display.  The Apache is so bad you may need to stack up multiple layers of brightness-boosting!

I'm planning on making a video of how to set this up since this topic is coming up multiple times per day in various forums.  

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On 3/30/2022 at 8:01 PM, PierPaolo said:

Can you indicate which PDF you are referring to?

 

I still don't see the MDF of the pilot, only those of the CPG are shown

 

 

Thanks, I am already running reshade, but would appreciate a video about brightness.

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