CASE final and drift compensation.

[fagulha]

40 minutes ago, TimRobertsen said:

Regarding when to start the approach turn: As @draconus says, Tacan-bug is the way to go

No wind: Tacan-bug is aligned with the center of the "E" in "MODE".

20 knots wind: Tacan-bug is aligned with the top of the "M" in "MODE"

Any winds between 0 and 20, you start somewhere between Middle-E and top-M.

It works fairly well, with the added bonus of not having to take your eyes of the instruments.

Usually i start the turn when i see the rundown (after pass the paddles position).

[Pieterras]

God these comments honestly hurt my eyes especially @TimRobertsen You should know better

Line-up is determined visually... Aiming for the crotch is a thing, but technically also improper as it is not used passed the IM "in the middle" position.. 
ICLS is not part of the line-up scan and definitely NOT used to determine line-up.. 

ICLS is used irl, but only to visualise position in relation to the glidepath in the later stages of the approach turn.. in the groove ICLS is not part of the scan.. 
Swift gave the answer... VISUALLY scan BALL, LINE-UP, AOA... if you are still drifting away with this scan you are NOT flying the jet, but you let it fly you... 

As simple as that.    

@TimRobertsen What you say works... but isn't a correct technique equally the boat should never be that slow;) 

 

AGAIN >>>> 1.1/1.2/1.3 nm is all BULLSHIT.. 
WHATEVER ABEAM DISTANCE PUTS YOU IN THE GROOVE WITH 27-30 DEGREES AOB is the CORRECT abeam distance.. If your light it is less, if your heavy it will be more... 

If your abeam distance doesn't work, DO NOT CHANGE YOUR AOB... CHANGE YOUR ABEAM DISTANCE 

I cant believe how this is still even a discussion, but hopefully some of you have learned something new today

[fagulha]

2 hours ago, Pieterras said:

God these comments honestly hurt my eyes especially @TimRobertsen You should know better

Line-up is determined visually... Aiming for the crotch is a thing, but technically also improper as it is not used passed the IM "in the middle" position.. 
ICLS is not part of the line-up scan and definitely NOT used to determine line-up.. 

ICLS is used irl, but only to visualise position in relation to the glidepath in the later stages of the approach turn.. in the groove ICLS is not part of the scan.. 
Swift gave the answer... VISUALLY scan BALL, LINE-UP, AOA... if you are still drifting away with this scan you are NOT flying the jet, but you let it fly you... 

As simple as that.    

@TimRobertsen What you say works... but isn't a correct technique equally the boat should never be that slow;) 

 

AGAIN >>>> 1.1/1.2/1.3 nm is all BULLSHIT.. 
WHATEVER ABEAM DISTANCE PUTS YOU IN THE GROOVE WITH 27-30 DEGREES AOB is the CORRECT abeam distance.. If your light it is less, if your heavy it will be more... 

If your abeam distance doesn't work, DO NOT CHANGE YOUR AOB... CHANGE YOUR ABEAM DISTANCE 

I cant believe how this is still even a discussion, but hopefully some of you have learned something new today

Well, this make me feel like i should fly more and don´t ask anything more on the forum because i don´t want to hurt anyone eyes.

From my side i´m sorry if i wrote something i shouldn´t wrote, i just want to improve my knowledge and flying.

Best regards,

F.

[Pieterras]

39 minutes ago, fagulha said:

Well, this make me feel like i should fly more and don´t ask anything more on the forum because i don´t want to hurt anyone eyes.

From my side i´m sorry if i wrote something i shouldn´t wrote, i just want to improve my knowledge and flying.

Best regards,

F.

@fagulha please don’t your comments were really good. But I see many “good ideas” that are far from realistic. There are 100rds of ways to make a landing work. But there is only 1 way to use correct techniques

[Nealius]

"Correct techniques" seem to vary from pilot to pilot. I don't recall @Lex Talionis mentioning that abeam distance was "whatever you needed," though it's been a while since I watched his videos. Nor Victory in his long-lost CASE I paper, though that was aimed at the Tomcat and may not be equally applicable. It was always "1.1~1.2nm abeam" and "turn when abeam the LSO platform" or some other visually distinguishable feature of the ship....which we can't really see well on our virtual displays.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Nealius

[TimRobertsen]

14 hours ago, Pieterras said:

God these comments honestly hurt my eyes especially @TimRobertsen You should know better

Line-up is determined visually... Aiming for the crotch is a thing, but technically also improper as it is not used passed the IM "in the middle" position.. 
ICLS is not part of the line-up scan and definitely NOT used to determine line-up.. 

ICLS is used irl, but only to visualise position in relation to the glidepath in the later stages of the approach turn.. in the groove ICLS is not part of the scan.. 
Swift gave the answer... VISUALLY scan BALL, LINE-UP, AOA... if you are still drifting away with this scan you are NOT flying the jet, but you let it fly you... 

As simple as that.    

@TimRobertsen What you say works... but isn't a correct technique equally the boat should never be that slow;) 

 

AGAIN >>>> 1.1/1.2/1.3 nm is all BULLSHIT.. 
WHATEVER ABEAM DISTANCE PUTS YOU IN THE GROOVE WITH 27-30 DEGREES AOB is the CORRECT abeam distance.. If your light it is less, if your heavy it will be more... 

If your abeam distance doesn't work, DO NOT CHANGE YOUR AOB... CHANGE YOUR ABEAM DISTANCE 

I cant believe how this is still even a discussion, but hopefully some of you have learned something new today

Heheh! I was just contributing with my 2 cents on the matter, Im not claiming it's a dollar  

For me, DCS is a nice way of unwinding from the everyday hassle, and I really enjoy forum and the community. When I first got into DCS, about a year ago, I was very hesitant to join any kind of forum, let alone, ask questions, as the internet in general can be an unkind place. I simply have no taste for "arguing on the internet" and Im far too old for it  But, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the DCS-community was actually a bunch of good folks just getting together over a shared interest for aviation, and that there actually was room for "stupid questions" (and answeres) 

I think no one will question you dedication for providing good and solid information. I've read your recovery documents more than once, and I keep going back to them whenever Im uncertain about anything regarding recoveries. They are really f**king good (I didnt want to use that word, but I fall short of adverbs )

We all have different levels of investment in DCS, some are hardcore, some are not, I have a fairly relaxed relation to it. Some days I just fly around the Nevada desert for no reason, and other days I want to get into the nitty gritty of some aspect of flying.

What I like about the DCS forum and the folks here is that there is room for asking all kinds of questions and giving all kinds of answeres. For me, thats the beauty of DCS community

Im not trying to paint you as some kind of a badguy, Im sure if we met over a pint of beer, we'd be good friends and have a great time; I think what you do, and contribute with, is really solid stuff. Im truely greatfull that someone will dive into a matter as deep as you have done with carrier landing operations, and provide your understanding and information about it for free for everyone to read and learn

This ended up being a far longer post than I intended

Peace and love, and have a nice weekend

[Callsign112]

3 hours ago, TimRobertsen said:

Heheh! I was just contributing with my 2 cents on the matter, Im not claiming it's a dollar  

For me, DCS is a nice way of unwinding from the everyday hassle, and I really enjoy forum and the community. When I first got into DCS, about a year ago, I was very hesitant to join any kind of forum, let alone, ask questions, as the internet in general can be an unkind place. I simply have no taste for "arguing on the internet" and Im far too old for it  But, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the DCS-community was actually a bunch of good folks just getting together over a shared interest for aviation, and that there actually was room for "stupid questions" (and answeres) 

I think no one will question you dedication for providing good and solid information. I've read your recovery documents more than once, and I keep going back to them whenever Im uncertain about anything regarding recoveries. They are really f**king good (I didnt want to use that word, but I fall short of adverbs )

We all have different levels of investment in DCS, some are hardcore, some are not, I have a fairly relaxed relation to it. Some days I just fly around the Nevada desert for no reason, and other days I want to get into the nitty gritty of some aspect of flying.

What I like about the DCS forum and the folks here is that there is room for asking all kinds of questions and giving all kinds of answeres. For me, thats the beauty of DCS community

Im not trying to paint you as some kind of a badguy, Im sure if we met over a pint of beer, we'd be good friends and have a great time; I think what you do, and contribute with, is really solid stuff. Im truely greatfull that someone will dive into a matter as deep as you have done with carrier landing operations, and provide your understanding and information about it for free for everyone to read and learn

This ended up being a far longer post than I intended

Peace and love, and have a nice weekend

Now that was pretty easy on the eyes. Thanks @TimRobertsen

[Fish]

Many thanks for all who contributed, even those who's eyes got 'hurt' in the process. From the replies it's clear that despite the plethora of content out there explaining the CASE 1, it is and will remain (as it is in real life), one of the most complex procedures you can do in an aircraft, and I would suggest despite many discussions (debates) about it in the past, there will continue to be discussion about it in the future.

To think that people will just read through a post/video on this subject, and with some practice just get it is simply wrong. As virtual pilots we don't have the luxury of 300 dry landings, before going to carrier ops, neither have we the luxury of real people giving real time training  and feedback as we progress, so we have to rely on community support, practice and lots of trial and ERROR, to get the understanding. The best we are going to do is to 'get better', and the odd time 'get it right'. Discourse is an essential element of this process. 

Communities like ours, thrive on encouragement/support and help, and 'CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM'

In conclusion, I have considered the advice and will try to follow IFLOLS. In practice however, its likely that I will continue to point the nose upwind a little towards the island until I get better at it.

[randomTOTEN]

Reading this thread, OP you seem to greatly over-complicate the task of lining up with the ship.

I agree with Pieterras and Swiftin9s. You guys don't seem to like the answer, "just eyeball it." "Do pilot $#!T"

It's a shame the Youtube user A.E.W. deleted his excellent (and lengthy) CASE 1 series. He continuously beat the drum of "work the numbers." That means to know your targets, and to adjust flight parameters to meet them. Don't just set some perfect value X and let everything fall apart. Flying a virtual jet is an active process.

The carrier deck is marked to resemble a runway. It doesn't take 2 pages of discussion to know how to maintain a centerline.

You're looking at the FPV for help. You need to be looking at the ship. A.K.A. "Just eyeball it." They literally put the paint down for your eyeballs.

Case 1 as a V-I-S-U-A-L procedure....

Good luck!

[Nealius]

People often forget, or don’t realize, that flying is both a science and an art. 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:04 AM, Nealius said:

"Correct techniques" seem to vary from pilot to pilot. I don't recall @Lex Talionis mentioning that abeam distance was "whatever you needed," though it's been a while since I watched his videos. Nor Victory in his long-lost CASE I paper, though that was aimed at the Tomcat and may not be equally applicable. It was always "1.1~1.2nm abeam" and "turn when abeam the LSO platform" or some other visually distinguishable feature of the ship....which we can't really see well on our virtual displays.

 

I use the tacan bug. It's moving counter clockwise as I fly downwind. When it reaches my "west" position, I wait for the next dot, and then begin my turn. 

[davidrbarnette]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:23 PM, randomTOTEN said:

Reading this thread, OP you seem to greatly over-complicate the task of lining up with the ship.

I agree with Pieterras and Swiftin9s. You guys don't seem to like the answer, "just eyeball it." "Do pilot $#!T"

It's a shame the Youtube user A.E.W. deleted his excellent (and lengthy) CASE 1 series. He continuously beat the drum of "work the numbers." That means to know your targets, and to adjust flight parameters to meet them. Don't just set some perfect value X and let everything fall apart. Flying a virtual jet is an active process.

The carrier deck is marked to resemble a runway. It doesn't take 2 pages of discussion to know how to maintain a centerline.

 

You're looking at the FPV for help. You need to be looking at the ship. A.K.A. "Just eyeball it." They literally put the paint down for your eyeballs.

Case 1 as a V-I-S-U-A-L procedure....

Good luck!

^ This, 100%. These types of threads seem to come up pretty often, and it's often a head-scratcher to me when the people asking the question don't like the answer. 

The correct answer is "manage the aircraft so that you roll out into the groove on centerline, then actively fly the plane to maintain the glideslope and centerline all the way down to the deck." For some reason, when seeing this, there are quite a few who seem to feel "bUt MatH, anGLeS, vElociTY!!!"... This makes me think that one thing that is way overlooked in sim flying is basic stick & rudder skills. On your first few flight lessons, the refrain from most CFI's is "LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!!!" 

I think it would do most sim pilots a lot of good to forget the math thing for a bit and just focus on flying the plane by looking out the window. I admit, they are usually fun threads though.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, davidrbarnette said:

^ This, 100%. These types of threads seem to come up pretty often, and it's often a head-scratcher to me when the people asking the question don't like the answer. 

The correct answer is "manage the aircraft so that you roll out into the groove on centerline, then actively fly the plane to maintain the glideslope and centerline all the way down to the deck." For some reason, when seeing this, there are quite a few who seem to feel "bUt MatH, anGLeS, vElociTY!!!"... This makes me think that one thing that is way overlooked in sim flying is basic stick & rudder skills. On your first few flight lessons, the refrain from most CFI's is "LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!!!" 

I think it would do most sim pilots a lot of good to forget the math thing for a bit and just focus on flying the plane by looking out the window. I admit, they are usually fun threads though.

I cannot for the life of me do a "correct" Case I, but I have no issues getting a trap every time. 

The first thing I did when I got the Hornet was to jump in the carrier landing mission and got it on the first try. 

Tomcat? Got it last summer? Did the hot start mission from Beirut. Flew around Cyprus, needed gas. Was a boat to the North, just put it down. 

I guess what helped me in this was. I had some trouble with the A-4E-C community module and carriers. So I decided to train. One rule. I had to have 10 consecutive traps in the same mission. If I crashed I had to restart the mission. If I had a bolter, the count was reset. Well, I eventually did it after a couple of hours. I have the TacView, pretty fun, and I taped it. Guess the track won't work.