Attack helicopters very ineffective against a few ground units in the open

[Mad_Shell]

I tested both with the Ka-50 and the AH-64D, vs 4 tanks in the open:

- the Ka-50 managed to destroy... 1 tank. 

- the AH-64D was effective when there was no obstacle between it and the targets, but when you add a hill... it destroyed 2 tanks, then began to launch Hellfires randomly in the air.

The way they attack is very, very ineffective and unrealistic: they just climb really high and continue to advance toward the targets, while they should remain as low as possible and stay at a distance.

Ka50_bad_attack.trk AH-64D_bad_attack.trk

Edited November 18, 2021 by Mad_Shell

[Taz1004]

I agree.  AI got really dumb in today's patch.  Ka-50 wingman can't even attack wide open target as shown in the video below.  Track also attached.

Mission is default Instant Action Shooting Range.  No mods.  Wingman used to have issue attacking in campaign missions but never had issue attacking these targets in this mission before.  And in that second video, I thought asking him to rejoin and attack again may help.  Due to track inaccuracy, it shows him going right under me but during the play, he did crash into me.

 

 

Ka-50_AI1.trk

[Taz1004]

I did some further testing with all 4 AI skill level and Trained was only one that attacked the targets.  Tested multiple times and Trained attacked them every time while others failed.

Seems like their skill level is related to stand off distance.  Ace stays furthest away and rookie gets very close.  Ace and Veteran stays far away but seems like they can't see the target even within 6nm.  Rookie just gets too close and runs away.  Trained is only one that gets close enough so it can see the target but not too close to run away.

Will test them more in other missions.

[Grimes]

This is one of the lovely bugs where the behavior is different between open beta and the test version. That said it looks to be a combination of things working against the AI here. For starters they are given a task to attack the group which forces the AI to know where they are at and make a B-line for the group. The target group being above the helicopters in defilade causes the AI to need to climb quite a bit just to see the target. I'm not sure where you want them to go to shoot at the targets. 

 

Adding a basic route and keeping the CAS task while deleting the attack group task, thus allowing the AI to detect and engage the group after detection appears to yield slightly better results for the Apache. Doing the same for the KA-50 more or less has the same aggressive behavior. Actually increasing the altitude for the KA-50 allows it to detect earlier and the vikher to hit the turret rather than the hull of the tank which seems to increase the lethality of the missile. For instance it destroyed all 4 tanks in one pass on a test. 

 

From Taz's mission/track I made them only AI because that is how I like to test this stuff and there at least appears to be a difference in how the KA-50 attempts to attack targets compared to other helicopters. KA-50s would make very slow and seemingly bugged approaches. Other helicopters like Mi-24P, AH-64A, and Mi-28 were able to attack mostly without issues, but each attacked a little different. 

 

From this I reported 3 different bugs. Apache flight behavior difference in test build, KA-50 making drastic movements when approaching a target and just being bad at attacking, and Apache firing hellfire at bad angles. 

[Taz1004]

2 hours ago, Grimes said:

This is one of the lovely bugs where the behavior is different between open beta and the test version. That said it looks to be a combination of things working against the AI here. For starters they are given a task to attack the group which forces the AI to know where they are at and make a B-line for the group. The target group being above the helicopters in defilade causes the AI to need to climb quite a bit just to see the target. I'm not sure where you want them to go to shoot at the targets. 

 

Adding a basic route and keeping the CAS task while deleting the attack group task, thus allowing the AI to detect and engage the group after detection appears to yield slightly better results for the Apache. Doing the same for the KA-50 more or less has the same aggressive behavior. Actually increasing the altitude for the KA-50 allows it to detect earlier and the vikher to hit the turret rather than the hull of the tank which seems to increase the lethality of the missile. For instance it destroyed all 4 tanks in one pass on a test. 

 

From Taz's mission/track I made them only AI because that is how I like to test this stuff and there at least appears to be a difference in how the KA-50 attempts to attack targets compared to other helicopters. KA-50s would make very slow and seemingly bugged approaches. Other helicopters like Mi-24P, AH-64A, and Mi-28 were able to attack mostly without issues, but each attacked a little different. 

 

From this I reported 3 different bugs. Apache flight behavior difference in test build, KA-50 making drastic movements when approaching a target and just being bad at attacking, and Apache firing hellfire at bad angles. 

Thanks Grimes.  I hope you can pass on this note along with the bug report.

In my track, if you change AI weapon from Vikhr to Kh-25ML, AI have no problem attacking with any AI skill level.  Please test yourself.

This is problem that existed with Ka-50 Vikhr for years.  It just seems to have gotten worse since latest OB.

Before 2.7 when we were able to mod weapons, if I put Hellfire on Ka-50 AI wingman, he had no problem attacking in any conditions.  At least the Ka-50 issue is related to Vikhr.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Taz1004