[NO BUG] Antenna elevation axis gone after update

[m4ti140]

The latest RDI update has removed the antenna elevation axis completely. There's now a radar gain axis, but the elevation wheel on the throttle is not bindable despite working fine before the update. The only way to control elevation now is with buttons. This is not acceptable, it's debilitating for users of Saitek sticks as well as TM Cougar. Why would we have a bunch of simpit wheels for volume, or light brightness and not crucial HOTAS commands?

[Ramsay]

25 minutes ago, m4ti140 said:

Why would we have a bunch of simpit wheels for volume, or light brightness and not crucial HOTAS commands?

Because in the *real* it is a spring loaded, 3 position switch and in the *real*, it remembers the previously selected elevation for it's different modes and tracks the elevation of locked targets, none of which works if the radar elevation is bound to a axis.

Perhaps later RB can add a radar axis that can be bound as a virtual 3 position switch but not in this patch.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ramsay

[m4ti140]

10 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

Because in the *real* it is a spring loaded, 3 position switch and in the *real*, it remembers the previously selected elevation for it's different modes and tracks the elevation of locked targets, none of which works if the radar elevation is bound to a axis.

Perhaps later RB can add a radar axis that can be bound as a virtual 3 position switch but not in this patch.

 

A switch, or a spring loaded axis? Cause I find it hard to believe that it's not analog at all in the real jet. Especially after it's been like this for years.

[Ramsay]

1 minute ago, m4ti140 said:

A switch, or a spring loaded axis?

It's a spring centered switch.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ramsay

[Kercheiz]

6 hours ago, m4ti140 said:

A switch, or a spring loaded axis? Cause I find it hard to believe that it's not analog at all in the real jet. Especially after it's been like this for years.

See this video from 0:10

Do you believe now? It's just a fancy shaped 3pos hat.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMF5YHk6JeYTo7tC6pF2GzsdjWKi7FVRapcoElfm4jIbK1iihsu5wkQPtYdbeLvcA/photo/AF1QipNdmTVPAZ2LyMZjc5Ocd7Ded-uHcw99G_PTnR40?key=SHZ3czJNYVNaRnRZOHBYcWFwN0NEZUFWQm40eVl3

[Amarok_73]

No way! Indeed, the elevation axis has gone! And what will I fly now!?

Oh, wait... I forgot that I still have F-14, where developers don't have problem with the customers requiring such a little things that might be not so real, but improve the playablity, like button activated afterburner, similar way as F-18 where ED have implemented option for (OMG!!!) NON-REALISTIC TDC slew.
But wait, look there in the M-2000 specials, what does the options for non-realistic frequency repeater or VTB cone of vision? And there's still place for another option, like "Non-realistic" rotary steered radar antena elevation! Yeah... the Specials Section for almost every mod contains something that increases the number of happy customers/users of these mods.

Seriously, devs, please return the option to bind the elevation to rotary as it was since... always? For sure customers will be gratefull especially taking in account that the rest of changes apparently shows that someone is a good thinker in Your company.

[QuiGon]

28 minutes ago, Amarok_73 said:

Seriously, devs, please return the option to bind the elevation to rotary as it was since... always? For sure customers will be gratefull especially taking in account that the rest of changes apparently shows that someone is a good thinker in Your company.

I'm actually grateful that they removed it and now made it how it should be!

[Kercheiz]

If the axis is implemented, you will loose a LOT of new features that are impossible to code with an axis elevation.

• For instance, when a lock is broken, the radar starts searching at the last known contact position. With an axis, it will start back at the axis position.
• If you switch elevation between S (angle based control) and Z (altitude based control) the corresponding new angle or altitude elevation setting can't be applied to keep the same radar position : the axis position will be used instead
• If you switch from line search to DEC, change the DEC HD setting with the axis, and go back to line search, the system recalls the previous search elevation. With an axis, it won't work.

The whole system is intrinsically based, on a 3pos switch. It can't be modeled with an axis. Anyone that understands the new radar systems will understand why an axis is fundamentally, impossible to implement without loosing a lot of features.

It's not just about adding an axis control. And not about realism. Yes, there are plenty of non realistic customizations and binds already (vtb cone, freq repeater, TDC buttons, etc...)

And yes, before this release, the elevation was an axis. Because it was just an angle selection shared between all radar modes, so it made sense. Not anymore.

Recommendations for previous axis users:
 - Use your axis for radar gain knob. Very useful for A/G search.
 - Remove your vtb zoom +/- binds on hotas if you have them and lack extra buttons (map zoom now works very well with TDC alone)
 - Use the freed vtb zoom buttons for elevation

Edited November 22, 2021 by Kercheiz

[Althar93]

You will find more information about this on the post that I created the other day which has now been moved to the resolved section : 

 (with a neat video & photo to show the button in action on the real thing)

[m4ti140]

18 hours ago, Kercheiz said:

See this video from 0:10

Do you believe now? It's just a fancy shaped 3pos hat.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMF5YHk6JeYTo7tC6pF2GzsdjWKi7FVRapcoElfm4jIbK1iihsu5wkQPtYdbeLvcA/photo/AF1QipNdmTVPAZ2LyMZjc5Ocd7Ded-uHcw99G_PTnR40?key=SHZ3czJNYVNaRnRZOHBYcWFwN0NEZUFWQm40eVl3

I mean, it doesn't really look digital on this video, it has plenty of travel. Are there any SMEs here that can confirm it's a 2 way hat rather than a 2 way spring loaded axis like in Hornet?

11 hours ago, Kercheiz said:

If the axis is implemented, you will loose a LOT of new features that are impossible to code with an axis elevation.

• For instance, when a lock is broken, the radar starts searching at the last known contact position. With an axis, it will start back at the axis position.
• If you switch elevation between S (angle based control) and Z (altitude based control) the corresponding new angle or altitude elevation setting can't be applied to keep the same radar position : the axis position will be used instead
• If you switch from line search to DEC, change the DEC HD setting with the axis, and go back to line search, the system recalls the previous search elevation. With an axis, it won't work.

The whole system is intrinsically based, on a 3pos switch. It can't be modeled with an axis. Anyone that understands the new radar systems will understand why an axis is fundamentally, impossible to implement without loosing a lot of features.

It's not just about adding an axis control. And not about realism. Yes, there are plenty of non realistic customizations and binds already (vtb cone, freq repeater, TDC buttons, etc...)

And yes, before this release, the elevation was an axis. Because it was just an angle selection shared between all radar modes, so it made sense. Not anymore.

Recommendations for previous axis users:
 - Use your axis for radar gain knob. Very useful for A/G search.
 - Remove your vtb zoom +/- binds on hotas if you have them and lack extra buttons (map zoom now works very well with TDC alone)
 - Use the freed vtb zoom buttons for elevation

 

Look up how Hornet antenna elevation works. Same as this, but still analog, like an additional slew sensor.

4 hours ago, Althar93 said:

You will find more information about this on the post that I created the other day which has now been moved to the resolved section : 

 (with a neat video & photo to show the button in action on the real thing)

This one is way more descriptive, thanks.

[Kercheiz]

Doing this like the hornet (where the axis is springloaded but analog, and commands the speed of the elevation, not the absolute value) is indeed possible

But 99% of people who mourn the axis actually want the absolute value, which was the behavior before, to use it with analog wheels.

[Yoda_373sqn]

You can map the radar antenna up & down keys instead of the axis