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Release by end of Q1 2022


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1 hour ago, Cathnan said:

Funnily enough they did exactly that after they had to delay the first time. Everyone who bought it standalone without ed miles got iirc 8000 ed miles

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correct ED miles were given to users who qualified on our eshop, sadly its not something we can do for steam users. 

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If it's not ready and the team feel it is not ready to release - then I am all for that. Disappointed of course, but i'd rather the module was in a position where they are happy to release it than get a module that isn't up to a particular standard. Overall, it will take as long as it takes - its not as though there is nothing else to play in the meantime :-). The Apache, when it releases, is the icing on the already delicious cake 🙂


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People, let's not forget that while politicians the world over are telling us that the pandemic is beginning to ease, it is by no means "over" and people are still getting sick. The latest news even points to sickness playing its part in the delays to the hoped-for release date, and that kind of thing is beyond anyone's control. ED is staffed by people, not robots, and sometimes people have real-world issues that get in the way of targets and deadlines.

If you really feel cheated then make a decision. Ask for a refund and buy it again for more money after release, or ask for a refund and never get it because "principles" or just wait it out and enjoy it when arrives in a (hopefully) working condition. Your money, your choice. 

Honestly, it's like everyone thinks that every other module isn't worth touching whenever a new toy is about to drop.

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My understanding and expectation when they opened up the pre-order was that they were within 90 days of release.  There were statements about how fast the development was going and how much simpler this module was than the jets like the Hornet and Viper that made me think they had it nailed down.  We were told December, then late January, now we get an ambiguous "first quarter" and find that many basic functions like cold start are not even done.  That is why I feel mislead, and why I feel ED's communication on this sucked.  The only control I have in this is where I spend my money, and I have in the past bought a lot of modules I didn't really care about just to support ED.  No more, and no more pre-orders for me.  As consumers, we can vote with our pocketbook and that is what I will do.  

 

 

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22 hours ago, huchanronaa said:

But this means that ED is not sure that it will be released in February, which is a bad omen. It has been postponed twice in December and January., and maybe there will be a third and fourth postponement.

Would it really make you feel better if they were sure about February? They were already sure about 2021, December and then January.

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15 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

correct ED miles were given to users who qualified on our eshop, sadly its not something we can do for steam users. 

What ? Wait ? no..... maybe because I used miles to buy the preorder ?

 

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1 minute ago, Zarma said:

What ? Wait ? no..... maybe because I used miles to buy the preorder ?

 

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Yes as per T&C you are not entitled to any miles if you have used miles for your purchase.

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20 hours ago, Wychmaster said:

Combining this with the information from Casmos video about the current state ("some more time in the oven") I don't think we are looking at 31.03.2022. More like middle or end of February. But this is pure speculation of mine.

 

I hope also that they said Q1 so they don't have to delay again if not ready in february. We will see. Just prepare some pop corn and watch AH64 documentaries for the 5th time while waiting...

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Thanks for the update ED Team, I'm sure the weeks/months will fly by and EA will be out before we know it! I was a huge longbow fan back in the day and have been getting back into DCS in preparation for the apache..

 

cheers

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hace 1 hora, Zarma dijo:

What ? Wait ? no..... maybe because I used miles to buy the preorder ?

 

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Me too. I am not disappointed with the delay, but with the miles policy.
 
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I use miles to pay for the Apache too. Shoulda save them up for non-preorder thingys.

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On 1/22/2022 at 6:25 AM, Zap921 said:

Wow, the new video is absolutely amazing as far as graphics.  The initial fly-in at the start of the video (external view) had me second guessing on whether that was real or sim, absolutely awesome!!  Good works guys/gals on the project, can't wait and thanks for the update!

I totally agree…I keep pausing the video and doing a double take to make sure I was watching the right video😀 The cockpit looked really crisp/clear and colors more vibrant…could this be a new game version perhaps? 
Anyway…really appreciate the update.

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Disappointing: Yes
Expected: Yes
Acceptable: No, because it was expected

Release dates have never been met. Why don't they just take their "release dates" and add half a year and then everybody will be happy with only a few weeks of delays instead of months. I don't expect this till the end of march when they are legally bound to release due to their stunt on steam, putting their release date in December.

The delay was expected by everyone here, nobody believed that the release date would be met. And that is the unacceptable part. People who aren't even involved are fully confident in your failure to deliver on time. I don't mind complications coming up and things being delayed, everybody has been there, I'm sure. But by now everybody knows, and that includes the developers, that none of the release dates you promised have held up so far. So why do you keep saying them without a healthy margin based on previous setbacks and delays?

You push it back by a few weeks, then again, then again, then again. Why not just tell us when you are actually ready?

What would be real nice is if you said releases in june, and then you release... in june. Is this all some kind of big marketing stunt to reel in the cash by pretending that things are almost done or what? Because clearly it wasn't unexpected that things would take longer.

 

Also thank you for increasing the miles for the module because of the delay. And then not giving any to those who used miles for the purchase. Because not only makes that total sense, it's also very fair. (sarcasm)


Edited by FalcoGer
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On 1/22/2022 at 4:10 AM, huchanronaa said:

ED's official email says this:

We understand that our decision to delay the early access release is frustrating and disappointing. Please accept our apologies. Our commitment is to deliver this exciting new aircraft to you in the nearest future, hopefully in February. Thank you for your patience and understanding. Please remember that the 30% discount and extra ED Miles are still available all the way up to Early Access release.

But this means that ED is not sure that it will be released in February, which is a bad omen. It has been postponed twice in December and January., and maybe there will be a third and fourth postponement.

If pre-order DLC keeps getting delayed again and again, ED will face a bunch of legal issues asking for refunds

 

why would u want a refund on something u know is going to be released?  im not asking for a refund and even if they decide to release it "later" this year. just to clarify later could be aug for all i care. 

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I suspect ED announces estimated release dates because they realize that it is smart marketing due to the fact that the vast majority of their customer base understand the key word in the phrase is "estimated", and aren't stressed if the release doesn't happen at the stroke of midnight on that release date.  For every person that loses their mind for an announced release date that's been missed, there is at least one other that loses their mind without an up-to-minute release date estimate that is announced every week.

The problem isn't on ED's end, it's people that don't live in the real world; a real world that is beset with unexpected factors and variables that impact even the best laid plans.  Imagine driving to work, getting a flat tire, and showing up late.  Upon arrival, you explain that you had a flat tire, however you are immediately fired for "not anticipating you were going to have a flat tire and left your house earlier to account for the additional time to change to the spare."  That sort of logic would be absurd.


Edited by Raptor9
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2 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

 

Also thank you for increasing the miles for the module because of the delay. And then not giving any to those who used miles for the purchase. Because not only makes that total sense, it's also very fair. (sarcasm)

 

They used our miles to refund the people who didn't use them. LOL.

This is worst than the delay.

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The delay video looks fantastic!.... love the hook.

Looking forward to seeing the new pilot models and animations, using Avatar hand movement would be sweet.... even if it is to simply point.  

I am ok with the delay as I need more time for my new graphics card to arrive. 🙂

 

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6 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

The problem isn't on ED's end, it's people that don't live in the real world; a real world that is beset with unexpected factors and variables that impact even the best laid plans.  Imagine driving to work, getting a flat tire, and showing up late.  Upon arrival, you explain that you had a flat tire, however you are immediately fired for "not anticipating you were going to have a flat tire and left your house earlier to account for the additional time to change to the spare."  That sort of logic would be absurd.

 

I think your analogy generally makes sense, but in this case it would be more akin to this being the 4th or 5th (at the very least) occurrence of this happening with an employee.

I'm a dev myself and know that project planning is never going to be 100% correct. One of the best lessons I've ever learned is to under promise and over deliver. If I think something will take me one or two weeks, I say it could be a month. If I think it's 3 months, I say 6. I bet ED knew by early December that release was still going to be a few months out, at least I bet the devs did. Maybe the PMs were still pushing for an early release and they're the ones who dictate the PR side of ED. This is a common issue in both game companies and small companies in general, and ED is both of these things.

When they delayed it in December they should have just said that we expect it end of Q1, that way if we got it January 28th or February 28th, the player base would still be happy. A four week delay with a major Russian holiday in between and the task list Wags posted, nobody could have honestly expected they'd hit their new target date of end of January. But when they say that's the target date, that's all we have to go by.

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57 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

I suspect ED announces estimated release dates because they realize that it is smart marketing due to the fact that the vast majority of their customer base understand the key word in the phrase is "estimated", and aren't stressed if the release doesn't happen at the stroke of midnight on that release date.  For every person that loses their mind for an announced release date that's been missed, there is at least one other that loses their mind without an up-to-minute release date estimate that is announced every week.

The problem isn't on ED's end, it's people that don't live in the real world; a real world that is beset with unexpected factors and variables that impact even the best laid plans.  Imagine driving to work, getting a flat tire, and showing up late.  Upon arrival, you explain that you had a flat tire, however you are immediately fired for "not anticipating you were going to have a flat tire and left your house earlier to account for the additional time to change to the spare."  That sort of logic would be absurd.

 

That doesn’t make sense. Even if the key phrase is „estimated“,  by now and given ED‘s entire track record, it should be obvious to everyone, even to ED themselves, that their ability to „estimate“ is abysmal . They are wrong all the time and usually not by small margins. They are simply very bad at giving decent estimates.They constantly overestimate their ability.

They could learn from it , but apparently they don’t.

The simple solution is , make your estimate as usual internally, then add 300-500% /1-1.5 years buffer  and publish the resulting number on the newsletter. Keep publishing said same result every few weeks .

If they finish earlier and have a ready built(but only if both conditions are met) , revise and release.
Everyone is pleasantly surprised about ED making it on time or even earlier and the pitchforks stay in.

What they do now is just a worn-out bad routine. Almost no one believes EDs release estimates for anything anymore and that they keep repeating the same mistakes and then delay further at the last minute  just damages their PR reputation , which isn‘t the greatest to begin with.

regards,

 Snappy


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4 hours ago, Phantom88 said:

I totally agree…I keep pausing the video and doing a double take to make sure I was watching the right video😀 The cockpit looked really crisp/clear and colors more vibrant…could this be a new game version perhaps? 
Anyway…really appreciate the update.

That was my first tought also, that maybe we are looking at a different graphic engine the graphics was so wonderful. But @BIGNEWY said that the demo is NOT filmed on Vulkan, so this is still the "old" engine.

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By the way things are looking, if it gets delayed "again" there will be some really unhappy people.  This is the very first time I've ever preordered a module from DCS and was so excited counting down the days (6 days) even spent over $350 in sim gear such as rudder pedals,  diy collective, new flight stick bass shaker etc. And then,, da da daaaa! Delayed.  

 

Well from now on I will wait till a module is released before I put money down. I just had no idea of their history in delaying, pushbacks etc. I always thought they were spot on. 

 

For the record I still love these guys for what they bring to us. Just bummed and left with a bad taste is all. 

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be disappointed.  Everyone is disappointed (as are the dev team members I'm sure). I just think the drama some people are artificially inserting into the issue is over the top.

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