Question re gun predictif / shoot cue

[Snappy]

Hi ,

will the future manual versions get more information about this function?

What exactly are the conditions for it to indicate the shoot cue correctly?
Don't get me wrong. I know how to make it work and get the symbology to appear, but I mean this:

Is the shoot cue only valid at 0kts closure between me and target ? Or also if there is positive/negative closure rate?

Does changing the wingspan selection knob, change the predictif function's calcution,i.e. is it factored in?

So far  I'm getting mixed results from it.. It often seems to tell me to shoot and when do I hit nothing, and in reverse, when I shoot

by my own estimate using the radar gunsight I get hits, but no shoot cue appeared. I am talking about tracking shots only of course,

not snap shots.

 

Kind regards,

Snappy

Edited November 30, 2021 by Snappy

[Preendog]

The predictive mode is not currently simulated, though the switch moves. Not sure if they're planning on including it, maybe someone knows?

The best I understand the available gunsight is this.  The CCIP is a historical point of where a bullet would have been if you had fired 1 time-of-flight (ToF) ago, or a projection of where a bullet will be in one ToF if you were to pull the trigger now. 

It should work for any aspect or closure, but you have to predict where the TD box will be in the future. The radar is only used to get a range to determine the ToF, and place the CCIP on the appropriate spot on the virtual historical bullet line.

It does not work like a F-18 or F-15 sight, where you can place the CCIP briefly for snap shots. You have to hold the CCIP on the target box for at least one ToF, or shoot when you predict that the target box and CCIP will coincide in one ToF.

Personally, I find it hard to use if the target is manuevering.  I just use the distance from the CCIP to the gun cross to estimate lead, then make a snap shot with the gun cross itself with that lead. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Preendog

[Kercheiz]

It is implemented.

[Preendog]

The gunsight is exactly the same with the switch in either position.  I think only CCLT is modelled.

 

[Snappy]

4 hours ago, Preendog said:

The gunsight is exactly the same with the switch in either position.  I think only CCLT is modelled.

 

 

4 hours ago, Preendog said:

The gunsight is exactly the same with the switch in either position.  I think only CCLT is modelled.

 

No its not.It was implemented with the latest update.Check the update presentation on top of the forums. It has a picture.The predictif function does not immediately change the gunsight appearance.But if you are in range and position with enough lead for a shot you get a double square or triangle around the target on the HUD, to btiefly summarize.

But the exact mechanism is still a bit vague , hence my questions.

regards,

 Snappy 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Snappy

[myHelljumper]

13 hours ago, Preendog said:

The predictive mode is not currently simulated, though the switch moves. Not sure if they're planning on including it, maybe someone knows?

The best I understand the available gunsight is this.  The CCIP is a historical point of where a bullet would have been if you had fired 1 time-of-flight (ToF) ago, or a projection of where a bullet will be in one ToF if you were to pull the trigger now. 

It should work for any aspect or closure, but you have to predict where the TD box will be in the future. The radar is only used to get a range to determine the ToF, and place the CCIP on the appropriate spot on the virtual historical bullet line.

It does not work like a F-18 or F-15 sight, where you can place the CCIP briefly for snap shots. You have to hold the CCIP on the target box for at least one ToF, or shoot when you predict that the target box and CCIP will coincide in one ToF.

Personally, I find it hard to use if the target is manuevering.  I just use the distance from the CCIP to the gun cross to estimate lead, then make a snap shot with the gun cross itself with that lead. 

 

 

 

Hi,

I suggest you take a look at the updated manual, the PRED mode for the air-to-air gun is explained there.

@Snappy

I thought the updated manual did a good job at explaining this function, but maybe it's not enough.

The shoot incitation cue (doubled target square or coincidence triangle) is displayed when the current geometry between the aircraft should result in a hit with the guns if they were fired this instant.

The system takes the speed, trajectory and load factor of both aircraft into account. Closure speed is irrelevant.

The target wingspan setting affect the size of the shoot incitation cue "window". This window represents the size of the target and is used to determine if the shell will hit the target or not.

This symbology is not very useful due to the nature of the CCLT symbology and the way most air-to-air guns engagements unfolds. It would really only be useful against a target pulling steady G and not maneuvering.

AFAIK, this behavior is realistic.

[Snappy]

18 minutes ago, myHelljumper said:

Hi,

I suggest you take a look at the updated manual, the PRED mode for the air-to-air gun is explained there.

@Snappy

I thought the updated manual did a good job at explaining this function, but maybe it's not enough.

The shoot incitation cue (doubled target square or coincidence triangle) is displayed when the current geometry between the aircraft should result in a hit with the guns if they were fired this instant.

The system takes the speed, trajectory and load factor of both aircraft into account. Closure speed is irrelevant.

The target wingspan setting affect the size of the shoot incitation cue "window". This window represents the size of the target and is used to determine if the shell will hit the target or not.

This symbology is not very useful due to the nature of the CCLT symbology and the way most air-to-air guns engagements unfolds. It would really only be useful against a target pulling steady G and not maneuvering.

AFAIK, this behavior is realistic.

Thank you very much for your clarification, regarding the „window“ related to wingspan  and the inherent limited practical usability for gun fights.

I understand it better now. Maybe a short paragraph about this limited usability in real life could be added to future manual editions, so people who are not familiar with gunsights don’t get unrealistic expectations.

I appreciate your presence here and providing support!

kind regards,

Snappy

[Preendog]

Knowing how it works it seems fine.  Even American CCIP can't deal with target changing direction.  It's just that people don't know you have to shoot before the pipper reaches the box.  Thank you for pointing to the new manual.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Preendog

[Snappy]

On 12/11/2021 at 5:15 PM, Preendog said:

Knowing how it works it seems fine.  Even American CCIP can't deal with target changing direction.  It's just that people don't know you have to shoot before the pipper reaches the box.  Thank you for pointing to the new manual.

 

 

The discussion wasn't about the pipper or the way the Mirage gunsight operates in general as a historic sight .That wasn't what the post was about.

It was about the predictive shoot cue  in steady tracking solutions , not with target constantly changing directions. It has little to do with where the pipper on the snake, as it would , under ideal conditions, tell you when to press  the trigger.

Nevermind though.As explained, it has limitations and limited use under actual combat conditions.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Snappy

[john4pap]

Just been checking this in the manual and flight. I do not understand why the option exists... I mean, is there any reason not to use PRED all the time?

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