vague Co-ordinate entry

[CH4Pz]

Im having issues entering the UTM style cordinates in this campaign, as the campaign gives you 6 digits (eg. KN 545 441) but UTM has 10 numbers (eg. KN 54521 44162), and if i just enter the 6 digit style in it comes up 400 miles away. The missions dont give you the 37T part of utm either, which is sometimes different, so im not sure if thats the part im entering wrong or not? ive re-watched 10 different vids on WP entry in case ive missed something, but none mention the 6 digit format. i tried filling out the 10 spaces with zeros but no success there either. I was able to visually spot targets in previous, more confined missions, but now cant progress any further. 

[CH4Pz]

@baltic_dragon Can you offer any help? its making completing this campaign very difficult! Cheers

[BuzzLine]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:19 AM, CH4Pz said:

Im having issues entering the UTM style cordinates in this campaign, as the campaign gives you 6 digits (eg. KN 545 441) but UTM has 10 numbers (eg. KN 54521 44162), and if i just enter the 6 digit style in it comes up 400 miles away. The missions dont give you the 37T part of utm either, which is sometimes different, so im not sure if thats the part im entering wrong or not? ive re-watched 10 different vids on WP entry in case ive missed something, but none mention the 6 digit format. i tried filling out the 10 spaces with zeros but no success there either. I was able to visually spot targets in previous, more confined missions, but now cant progress any further. 

Have you tried KN 54500 44100 ? The two digit groups are the N/S and E/W coordinates, getting progressively more precise. So I believe you should pad *each* with zeros if they are not precise enough. (But I would have guessed that the CDU would have accepted any even number of digits and split&pad automatically )

[CH4Pz]

9 hours ago, BuzzLine said:

Have you tried KN 54500 44100 ? The two digit groups are the N/S and E/W coordinates, getting progressively more precise. So I believe you should pad *each* with zeros if they are not precise enough. (But I would have guessed that the CDU would have accepted any even number of digits and split&pad automatically )

i thought i tried "00"'s before and after but will try again an report back! Im sure its something simple #angrilywavesfistatusererror

[Frederf]

They mean 38T KN545441. 37TKN54 would be way way off the normal 37T UTM into 38T again.

A lot of people forget the UTM which is a necessary part of a complete MGRS location. KN54 is right on the 37T 38T boundary. In fact the KN545441 location is on the wrong side of the UTM boundary. It's in one of those weird overlap MGRS zones which spill across the UTM boundary where two MGRS addresses can refer to the same plot of land. The A-10 will accept either of the double-addressed locations although the correct one is preferred for accuracy.

Converting the six-digit grid into LL and back into MGRS it is correctly expressed as:

• 38T KN545 441 -> 42.8100936°, 041.9973767° -> 37T GH 450 440

That's approximate because I truncated. Be aware that MGRS always refers to the middle (or entirety) of the square addressed of any size, not any of its corners.  I.e. KN54 is not the same as KN5000040000. KN54 is effectively KN5555545555 but with an infinite number of 5s. The A-10 (at least in DCS) however will just add zeroes and thus takes the corner when increasing the precision to 10 digit. So watch out as that's an error of ~7.2km for a 10km grid. A lot of people don't pay attention to the center-of-square rule as well.

KN545441 is a perfectly valid MGRS (as is KN, KN54, KN5444, KN541441, KN54124412, KN5412344123) and 2-4-6-8-10 digits can all be entered into the A-10 CDU just fine. The letter-only zero-digit (100km grid) entry is rejected.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Frederf

[CH4Pz]

1 hour ago, Frederf said:

They mean 38T KN545441. 37TKN54 would be way way off the normal 37T UTM into 38T again.

A lot of people forget the UTM which is a necessary part of a complete MGRS location. KN54 is right on the 37T 38T boundary. In fact the KN545441 location is on the wrong side of the UTM boundary. It's in one of those weird overlap MGRS zones which spill across the UTM boundary where two MGRS addresses can refer to the same plot of land. The A-10 will accept either of the double-addressed locations although the correct one is preferred for accuracy.

Converting the six-digit grid into LL and back into MGRS it is correctly expressed as:

• 38T KN545 441 -> 42.8100936°, 041.9973767° -> 37T GH 450 440

That's approximate because I truncated. Be aware that MGRS always refers to the middle (or entirety) of the square addressed of any size, not any of its corners.  I.e. KN54 is not the same as KN5000040000. KN54 is effectively KN5555545555 but with an infinite number of 5s. The A-10 (at least in DCS) however will just add zeroes and thus takes the corner when increasing the precision to 10 digit. So watch out as that's an error of ~7.2km for a 10km grid. A lot of people don't pay attention to the center-of-square rule as well.

KN545441 is a perfectly valid MGRS (as is KN, KN54, KN5444, KN541441, KN54124412, KN5412344123) and 2-4-6-8-10 digits can all be entered into the A-10 CDU just fine. The letter-only zero-digit (100km grid) entry is rejected.

 

But if i just enter the 6 digit version it sends me way off target (by 400 miles or so), so what am i doing wrong? That KN545441 is not specific, seems to happen on all the 6 number co-ordinates in this campaign. do i need to change the 38T part? personally would prefer that info in the dialogue, if that is the case.. Just needa find them foreheads!!

[baltic_dragon]

Hey @CH4Pz! As Frederf says, make sure you change the line above from 37 to 38 or vice-versa. Georgia is in a place where the two large grids intersect and if you get this part wrong, then you are sent hundreds of miles away. The JTAC on the ground knows in which large quadrant he is and therefore gives only the standard grid. I know this is causing trouble, but TBH I designed it as such on purpose, because there is no better way to learn this things than by making errors. Hope this helps!

Edited December 11, 2021 by baltic_dragon

[BuzzLine]

Awesome explanation, @Frederf, learn something new everyday ! Thanks. 

[CH4Pz]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:17 AM, baltic_dragon said:

Hey @CH4Pz! As Frederf says, make sure you change the line above from 37 to 38 or vice-versa. Georgia is in a place where the two large grids intersect and if you get this part wrong, then you are sent hundreds of miles away. The JTAC on the ground knows in which large quadrant he is and therefore gives only the standard grid. I know this is causing trouble, but TBH I designed it as such on purpose, because there is no better way to learn this things than by making errors. Hope this helps!

 

Oh, so if its on 38T already, just go 37T, and vice versa, gotcha (tbh i probably shoulda tried that instead of all the 00 combinations haha).. Great campaign though, im upto the last mission now, and its been epic! Thank you

[baltic_dragon]

Thanks, glad you liked it!