reported HARMs fired in PB mode seem to ignore the given coordinates... unless I'm doing something wrong

[Hardcard]

 I don't have DCS tracks, since this happened in long MP sessions, but I made tacview track recordings, showing the issue. 

In both instances, I used PB mode with HRM pullup, following the steps given by Wags in this video: 

According to Wags, HARMs shouldn't be "going active" off the rails when fired in PB mode, but looks like my HARMs were. 
I didn't set my EW page to manual, like Wags did, though, is that required for proper PB mode operation?

Here's the first tacview recording: https://streamable.com/ssp8ju

I had created a first waypoint just south of that neustrashimy (indicated in the video with my cursor).
There used to be 3 enemy 1L13 EWRs around that first waypoint, but were no longer there, I didn't know that at the time.

I had also created a second waypoint north of that neustrashimy, where the active 1L13 EWR was.

My first 2 HARMs were supposed to be going towards the first waypoint (south of the neustrashimy), but immediately went towards the active EWR to the north (at my second waypoint).

I did switch waypoints after firing... but that shouldn't change the coordinates for the HARMs already in the air, right?
Seems like those HARMs "went active" off the rails and tracked the first EWR source they could find, regardless of designated coordinates.

The third HARM was fired towards the second waypoint, but since the EWR had already been destroyed by the previous HARMs, didn't track anything (which is kind of what I'd expect, except that it kept flying straight instead of going for the given coordinate).
 
The fourth HARM was fired towards the first waypoint (south of the neustrashimy), looks like it also "went active" off the rails and tracked the first EWR source it could find... which was a friendly EWR way out to the east, nowhere near the designated waypoint.  


Here's the second tacview recording: https://streamable.com/g3gjuo

Similar situation. I designated a coordinate where an enemy 1L13 EWR was supposed to be (it had already been destroyed, but I didn't know).
My HARM "went active" off the rails, turned almost 180º (completely ignoring the designated coordinates) and went for friendly EWR behind me... 

 

Unless I'm doing something wrong here, looks like PB HARMs are acting like SP HARMs (only difference is that they loft).
I'm used to doing this kind of coordinate-based SEAD strikes with the viper (using EOM), so I expect my HARMs to fly to the designated coordinates, even if they can't find a radar source... isn't this how PB in the hornet is supposed to work? Or is it some kind of RUK mode, but without the 20nmi limit?

Edited December 3, 2021 by Hardcard

[Drac]

When I use the mode you are describing, I set a code for the radar I'm going after.  Did you do that by chance?  Not sure if that would make a difference, but just asking.

 

[Hardcard]

@Drac

HARMs can't be fired in PB mode unless a code is given. 
Code for 1L13EWR is 101, I was using that. 

 

@Foka

Always do that. Like I said, I did the same Wags did in the video, except I didn't set my EW page to manual. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Hardcard

[Foka]

Remember to make your WPT as TGT (WPDSG).

[Drac]

Just now, Hardcard said:

@Drac

HARMs can't be fired in PB mode unless a code is given. 
Code for 1L13EWR is 101, I was using that. 

Copy...

[Sn8ke]

Tonight same happened to me. PB’d a designated waypoint on an SA-3 with code 123. All missiles made a sharp turn 45 degrees to left after magnum. 

[Wobbly]

I feel like the Waypoint isn't too relevant. I was trying to kill an Enemy EWR once. I designated the Point using the A/G Radar (it was on an Island). And send the Harm on its way from Angels 35 at around 50 miles Distance. Other Times those Parameters worked well but this time there was a friendly EWR (with the same code) around 30 miles away from my Target Point.  So the Harm took a Turn and went to my 2 o'clock heading straigt for the Friendly EWR. I don't know if its supposed to be like that or a bug. 

[Hardcard]

@BIGNEWY

Sorry to ping you, but I think we need feedback from ED here. 

Is this working as intended or should I report it as a bug?

[oldcrusty]

Are all these issues popping up in MP missions only?   I didn't encounter any problems with HARM's in any mode in SP.   15 custom missions flown recently.

[Hardcard]

I haven't been able to reproduce the issue in SP yet.  

I'll keep trying, but it might very well be that this issue only rears its ugly head in MP... unfortunately, I can't produce usable tracks there, since sessions last for hours and tracks get corrupted after only a few minutes.

I'll try to work it out with server admins as well, see if we can figure out what's going on.

[BIGNEWY]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:58 AM, Hardcard said:

@BIGNEWY

Sorry to ping you, but I think we need feedback from ED here. 

Is this working as intended or should I report it as a bug?

Please include a track replay showing an example so we can check it. 

thanks

[Harker]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please include a track replay showing an example so we can check it. 

thanks

I ran some tests that show the problem. Seems like the HARM's seeker gimbal limits are not simulated, since it can see and turns towards SAMs that should be outside of them. It also seems that PB mode shots do not respect the distance limitations around the designation point, as emitters were placed a little more than 20 NM apart.

PB HARMs go for emitters more than 20 NM away from des_2.trk PB HARMs go for emitters more than 20 NM away from des.trk

[Hardcard]

@BIGNEWY

Like I said, my tracks get corrupted after 5-10 minutes into the replay (if I'm lucky). 

Even relatively simple missions generate corrupted tracks, where my aircraft decides to dive into the ground/sea, fire missiles without a lock / in the wrong direction, get hit by missiles that didn't hit me, etc.

Until the track corruption issue is sorted, I can't provide usable tracks most of the time. 
 

[Hardcard]

@Harker

I don't think it's the same problem, remember that my HARMs went for friendly EWRs (and one of them was behind me).

In my case, seemed like HARMs went directly into self protection mode and didn't discriminate between friend and foe. 
I haven't been able to reproduce it in SP yet.

[Hobel]

I have also observed a few strange things. but with the F16

Am I doing something wrong here or  Why is the Harm not flying at the target I am aiming at?

F16 and Harm.trk

Edited December 7, 2021 by Hobel

[BIGNEWY]

On 12/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, Harker said:

I ran some tests that show the problem. Seems like the HARM's seeker gimbal limits are not simulated, since it can see and turns towards SAMs that should be outside of them. It also seems that PB mode shots do not respect the distance limitations around the designation point, as emitters were placed a little more than 20 NM apart.

PB HARMs go for emitters more than 20 NM away from des_2.trk 491.32 kB · 5 downloads PB HARMs go for emitters more than 20 NM away from des.trk 720 kB · 6 downloads

reported using Harker's tracks, the team will check the gimbal limits. 

thanks