A key-bind creation wizard

[Tank50us]

As I mentioned in another thread, something that would be immensely useful for DCS would be the addition of a wizard designed specifically to bind all the 'common' keys and controls that all aircraft share. These include things like:

• Roll, Pitch, and Yaw
• Trim
• Landing Gear
• Air Breaks
• Flaps
• Canopy
• Slew and depress (and its equivalents)
• Nose Wheel Steering
• Wheel Breaks
• Trigger
• Weapons Release
• and many more

The reasons I think such a wizard would be useful is, or at least should be, pretty clear: New players stepping into DCS for the first time have no idea what they're staring at in that bindings screen. So each item should contain a little graphic that shows what the binding in question actually does. For example: The graphic for Weapons Release would be a generic airplane dropping a bomb. Or the graphic for slew shows a generic targeting cursor to illustrate that this is how you aim your weapons. The list goes on. But the secondary purpose of this is also to ensure that whether a player is starting up for the first time, returning from a hiatus, working with a fresh install on a new machine, or even installing a new control scheme, they'll be able to have the most common controls handled on all of their planes, regardless of nation or level of fidelity.

I think this would go a long way to helping the new users to the game, and make them feel more at home than things are currently.

[cfrag]

While not quite the same, for people like me who own multiple modules, this may be worth a look (if you don't use it already  )

JoyStick Profiler (JoyPro)

No affiliation with the kind people who created this

 

 

[SharpeXB]

29 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Also, such a thing would be part of the User Interface department, so all the other things that you want done can still be worked on without degregation.

A fine idea but I don’t think it could be made to work across all the third party modules. Given the expense of HOTAS controllers I don’t imagine people buy new ones that often. Also it will upset a lot more people if a change to the control menu messes up their settings. 

[Tippis]

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

A fine idea but I don’t think it could be made to work across all the third party modules.

Of course it can. Trivially. A number of the ones suggested already do — they're just not tied into a single universal bind option like they probably should be so you have to do them all manually for no sensible reason if you ever want to change them across the board.

If you look at the bind sheet on any module, you will near instantly come across three, four (five?) dozen binds that already work the way you don't think they can work. This is why you should probably check with the game before you rely on your own thinking assumptions.

Once again, the more you argue against these QoL improvements to the game, the more your arguments give off the impression that you have next to no experience with DCS at all…

Edited December 13, 2021 by Tippis

[_Hoss]

Grim Reapers YouTube channel look for JoyPro. You set Roll, Pitch, yaw, brakes, flaps, etc. once for all the planes you have in your module bag. Mod planes show up in the list too (A-4). You add a plane and it's settings will automatically be there.

Good program......

Hoss

Edited December 13, 2021 by 352nd_Hoss

[Tank50us]

1 hour ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

Grim Reapers YouTube channel look for JoyPro. You set Roll, Pitch, yaw, brakes, flaps, etc. once for all the planes you have in your module bag. Mod planes show up in the list too (A-4). You add a plane and it's settings will automatically be there.

Good program......

Hoss

 

I tried JoyPro, and unfortunately, it's not quite as intuitive as GR made it out to be, nor as stable. I followed the directions to the letter, and it just didn't work... and funnily enough I suffered such a catastrophic fail that even my backup binds didn't restore it.... which meant having to go through this whole process of re-binding everything all over again.

 

1 hour ago, Tippis said:

Once again, the more you argue against these QoL improvements to the game, the more your arguments give off the impression that you have next to no experience with DCS at all…

Yeah, these 'elitist' viewpoints of DCS really do need to go the way of the .303 bullet as an aircraft weapon. This whole "Well, I was able to do it this complicated way, so everyone else should be able to" is the exact opposite of what a company should want. ED should want the game to be accessible to all who download it, with easy to understand lingo so that even those people who know nothing of combat aviation can pick up the game and start wading in. I know people who've done the whole "Leap of Faith Dive", and for them it was only because they loved the aircraft that they bought that they opted to stick out the whole thing. But that's not everyone. There are probably thousands who actually spent money on DCS, bought everything they needed, bought the module they wanted.... but the moment they fired up the game and saw how messed up the keybinds were.... just noped out of it. Their first experience to DCS should be "Hey welcome to DCS World. You seem new here, so how about we get you set up first? You appear to have [input device], so let's get that bound. [Gets things bound]. Alright, now that that's out of the way, let's get your flying. What's your level of knowledge for aircraft? [None/Some/moderate/lots] (assuming 'none' is selected) Alright, so, we've got some work to do, but don't worry. This is the Sukoi, Su-25T Frogfoot. (details about plane)...." And after that it goes to explain all the intricacies of flying the Su25 to the point where the new player can take off, fly around, navigate, and land without exploding. That should be every new players experience the moment they fire up the game for the first time, or even those who just haven't been around a while and could use a quick refresher. I think we can all agree that that hour I mentioned earlier would be better suited flying then trying to navigate the keybinds menu.

[SharpeXB]

46 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Their first experience to DCS should be "Hey welcome to DCS World. You seem new here, so how about we get you set up first? You appear to have [input device], so let's get that bound. [Gets things bound]. Alright, now that that's out of the way, let's get your flying. What's your level of knowledge for aircraft? [None/Some/moderate/lots] (assuming 'none' is selected) Alright, so, we've got some work to do, but don't worry. This is the Sukoi, Su-25T Frogfoot. (details about plane)...." And after that it goes to explain all the intricacies of flying the Su25 to the point where the new player can take off, fly around, navigate, and land without exploding.

Honestly this is a sim for grown-ups who will feel put off by the “dummy helper” stuff as if they bought a 12 year old’s kiddie console game.

[Tippis]

27 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Honestly this is a sim for grown-ups who will feel put off by the “dummy helper” stuff as if they bought a 12 year old’s kiddie console game.

Only  if said “grown-ups” are immature, insecure, and deathly afraid of having their catastrophic levels of lingering “nuh-uh, I'm actually five and a half and not a baby!”-type childishness exposed to the world. Only they would suffer from the delusion that being helpful is “kiddie”. Everyone else will be entirely capable of understanding how dummy helpers… you know… help, and why being helpful is good for any and all entertainment products — especially the more complicated ones. They understand that more people means more funding means more fun, for everyone.

There's a reason why the entire genre has moved away from that kind of self-defeating and narrow-minded elitism and instead embraced what sims have always been: learning tools for those who don't know how to something yet. They let you recapture that fun time when you had to study and learn things. The whole “new module” craze can quite easily be traced back to exactly that: something new to discover with close to child-like curiosity.

Now, guess what it is that drives the entire continued existence of DCS…?

[Tank50us]

4 hours ago, Tippis said:

Now, guess what it is that drives the entire continued existence of DCS…?

You nailed it. More people getting into DCS ultimately means that more people will want to make modules for it. More modules means more interest, which means more people buying 1st party products, which means more money for ED to develop cool things. Seriously, the moment the F-14 was even announced you had people willing to throw money at Heatblur and ED back in 2018. Now look at how things are going. Here we are, about three years later (man time flies), and we've seen a huge increase in dev teams forming to make specific aircraft. In 2021 alone ED was able to release multiple new toys for us to play with, and everything we know they were developing is in some state of release (with exception to AH-64, which drops a few weeks after the new year). Every one of these new modules brings new people to DCS, some stick out the hard stuff and get into the fun stuff. But not everyone. Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved, if out of 100 people that are new to DCS in January 2022, all of them are still playing by Dec.31st? I like to think that it would be a good thing if 100% of the people who try DCS at the start of the year are still playing by the end of the year. Especially if they have tools to help them learn the game that doesn't make them feel stupid for not knowing something. When I first saw the Tomcats bind page, I was just stunned, completely unsure of what did what. But now it's one of the top three fixed-wings I fly... but that's because I'm stubborn AF. Not everyone is that willing to stick it out like I was (being unemployed thanks to a certain unspecified virus helped), but some people only have maybe two or three good hours per week to fly. And when it comes to free games, between this and the unspecified FTP game by a company with a snail for a logo... that other game does treat its new players a lot better than here. In that game, you're flying in 10 minutes tops. Out of the tutorials in 30-45min, and after that you're turned loose on the server.

Here in DCS, a new player who may not know anything about aviation, may not even be able to understand what he's reading when he's trying to bind controls. Which means he's spending an hour or more looking things up to try and figure it out, and if he/she just gives up at that point, they'll never pick up DCS again. They'll uninstall it, and walk away. And I don't think that's a good thing.

ED needs to make the New Player Experience much better. And the first important step to that, is making sure that people can set up their controls quickly and easily. The sooner the new player is up and flying, the better.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Tank50us said:

More people getting into DCS ultimately means that more people will want to make modules for it.

Amazing… tell us more about how business works.

2 hours ago, Tank50us said:

that other game does treat its new players a lot better than here. In that game, you're flying in 10 minutes tops.

This isn’t that kind of game. Again it’s a game for grown-ups, not console kiddos

[Tank50us]

32 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

This isn’t that kind of game. Again it’s a game for grown-ups, not console kiddos

Well, guess what: Those people do grow up, and decide to come to simulators like DCS. You may not like it, you may want 'those peasants' to stay away, but guess what, they'll come here. And I for one welcome them with open arms. Why? Because they make the game fun. Many of them actually seem to enjoy the idea of D&D with Fighter Jets (the way my group plays). But yet, people like you want them to stay away, which I think is a cryin' shame.

[SharpeXB]

34 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Well, guess what: Those people do grow up, and decide to come to simulators like DCS.

That’s why ED is making Modern Air Combat. A simplified intro game for DCS. But DCS by its very nature will never be a quick easy game. 
 

If they want to help new players, update the minimum system requirements to include a HOTAS and TrackIR. You shouldn’t be using the key mapping at all. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

Fun fact but these are already the same keys on at least the F-18, A-10C and M2000

Just from memory here…

• Roll, Pitch, and Yaw - obviously the same
• Trim - These are all the same
• Landing Gear - “G” this is universal for ever flight sim it seems
• Air Brakes - not all aircraft have this.
• Flaps - F and Shift+F
• Canopy - Ctrl+C
• Slew and depress (and its equivalents) - These are the same
• Nose Wheel Steering - I think this is “Insert”
• Wheel Brakes - I’ll bet this is “W”
• Trigger - obviously the same
• Weapons Release - Space Bar

And all these are meant to be mapped to your stick and throttle or pedals except for the canopy and landing gear. Using a keyboard for these is nuts. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Fun fact but these are already the same keys on at least the F-18, A-10C and M2000

…so you understand why your previous notion that it would be hard to make it work across modules was… ehm… less than informed?

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

If they want to help new players, update the minimum system requirements to include a HOTAS and TrackIR. You shouldn’t be using the key mapping at all. 

Alienating new players is not the same thing as helping them. What would help new players is to… [drum roll] help them in various ways. Using modern UX and UI design principles to get them on board and to realise that elitism and game snobbery went out of style in the early 1990s.

[Boosterdog]

I see the plus for this but, looking at my own set ups I also see how stuff varies from module to module.  
 

Part of the fun of getting a new module for me is the set up. Certainly the items outlined in the OP would be welcomed. 
 

Id like to see the feature extended  to where hovering over a switch not only tells you what it is but, via a click with a modifier took you to the binding for it so you could more easily set it up. It’s a small QOL thing but would save a little guesswork. 

[Tank50us]

10 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

Id like to see the feature extended  to where hovering over a switch not only tells you what it is but, via a click with a modifier took you to the binding for it so you could more easily set it up. It’s a small QOL thing but would save a little guesswork. 

This makes sense. Especially for those modules that break certain molds and require a bit more set-up than normal. I imagine that the EF2K will be an example of this given how new an aircraft it is in the real world, and how many systems would be introduced to DCS with it. Sure the basics will get covered, but the rest? Hard to say at this point as we know very little about it.

 

15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You shouldn’t be using the key mapping at all. 

Tell that to the people who use one of the cheaper HOTASs. Unless you're flying a Saber, which has bugger all for systems to begin with, your idea falls flat. And more importantly, your plan of requiring people to spend an extra 300-400 dollars on top of everything else, especially when they're not even sure they'll like DCS to begin with also doesn't work. Remember, the sooner new players are up and flying, the better off we all are. 

[Tippis]

10 hours ago, cfrag said:

Obviously, Sharpe's jesting

Unfortunately, no. He might be trolling, but he most definitely isn't jesting.

He has long since proven that he strongly wishes to keep DCS back and not let it see any kind of improvement in any way, unless maybe it specifically, directly, and only benefits him — in case it benefits anyone else, that's purely by accident and is more likely to make him change his mind and suddenly make him argue against the improvement he was in favour of just a few minutes earlier.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Tippis

[SharpeXB]

10 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Tell that to the people who use one of the cheaper HOTASs

Most HOTAS controllers have enough buttons. But you do need one. Racing sim players all seem to be able to buy racing wheels, you don’t see them trying to drive with a keyboard. Between a HOTAS and the clickable cockpit you should hardly need to use the keys. The vast array of keyboard commands in the modules are there because… well why not? But they aren’t all meant to be used regularly. That should be obvious even to a new player. 
Any hobby needs the right gear

You need skis for skiing and you need a rod for fishing. This hobby requires gear too. 

[Tippis]

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Most HOTAS controllers have enough buttons.

No. So we'll add the current state of sim peripherals to the list of things you have chosen to not keep track of by still base random assertions on.

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

But you do need one.

You really don't. It's very handy, but you don't need one, and the game fortunately accommodates all kinds of control schemes to cater to all kinds of setups and levels of interests and abilities to waste money on toys.

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Racing sim players all seem to be able to buy racing wheels, you don’t see them trying to drive with a keyboard.

Yes you do. Again, just because you don't do something doesn't mean that your approach is a universal truth. You really need to stop making these blatantly false and nonsensical generalisations from your flawed sample of one. It never ends well for you.

 

[Tank50us]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Racing sim players all seem to be able to buy racing wheels, you don’t see them trying to drive with a keyboard.

Funnily enough, some of the best Virtual Racers out there are using just a simple gamepad, and they regularly beat the snot out of people with multi-thousand dollar setups. Same applies to DCS. You have people able to play very well with a keyboard and mouse or controller, and are able to hold their own against people with full HOTAS and VR setups. And given that in the Ten Things trailer Wags flat out states that you can use a keyboard and mouse or gamepad. He recommends a "Joystick with four or more buttons", but goes on to say that a HOTAS is in no way needed to get the most out of DCS.

So when the voice of DCS himself makes these statements, how about coming down from your ivory tower of elitism and start understanding that maybe DCS is meant to be more accessible than you wish it to be.

[NineLine]

This thread has been cleaned, please remember that this is a Wishlist post, if you don't agree with what is posted here, then don't reply to show you don't support it. And you really don't need to correct spelling or grammar. Thanks.

[upyr1]

I have said it before I think a wizard and a profile called common airplane and common helicopter controls would be a great idea.  I figure these are the most common controls for planes

pitch yaw roll, throttle rudder brakes, trim, target designator

helicopters cyclic, throttle, pitch yaw and roll.

if you want to change the dead zones and curves you can do that on the individual aircraft profile then the wizard would just have to read down the controls file to set things up for other mods and modules.