Trees OP, Plz Nerf

[Tank50us]

Joking aside, I'm sure we've all had that frustration. You have a target, say a T55, lined up for a Maverick shot in your A-10. You push the button, the missile fires, but just before the missile can hit the target, the tank manages to get a pine tree between itself and the missile, and the missile hits a pinecone on said tree, and explodes, the tank on the other hand just keeps on going.

So here's something I think can all agree needs to be fixed: There is just no way that a few millimeters of tree branch is going to stop an ATGM, LGB, GPS Guided Glide Bomber, or anything an aircraft can drop. So why can't we have it fixed where a tree isn't going to detonate a missile too soon? I can understand if the missile hit a Sequoia, but I have a hard time believing that a missile is going to even notice a tree branch thinner than its fins.

[upyr1]

Yes we need a damage model for the trees. Right now they appear to be made of pure stalinium 

[Baaz]

I'm not so worried about this to be honest.  As a helo pilot I'm always flying below treetop level, and usually hovering in the trees with blades just above.  Most low flying planes won't even notice you as they are too busy looking for the dot; which they won't see because your dot is below the treetops.   If I take a shot and hit a tree, I put blame on myself, not the tree.  I should have positioned myself better, or anticipated the vehicle getting behind a tree before impact. 

 

Now, lets flip the coin.  Being a helo pilot in the trees as stated, there's been quite a few times where a tree has saved me as well.  

 

TL:DR, trees are fine, leave them alone.

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

Yes we need a damage model for the trees. Right now they appear to be made of pure stalinium 

Well yeah. Where do think that stuff even comes from?

It doesn't grow on trees you kno… ehm… oh wait, that's where it does grow, actually.

[upyr1]

10 minutes ago, Tippis said:

Well yeah. Where do think that stuff even comes from?

It doesn't grow on trees you kno… ehm… oh wait, that's where it does grow, actually.

The Georgian dagashili tree. Alexander Karavelli smuggled some out with him that's the secret to the jug and warthog being so durable.

[Silver_Dragon]

When on the past, tanks and SAMs open fire vs tree lines and destroy players helos, aircrafts and vehicles, all claim to realistic blocking trees...now some claim to nerf / delete them. Put DMs to the trees get melted CPUs.

Use trees to block misiles has realistic by doctrine.

[sirrah]

2 hours ago, Baaz said:

I'm not so worried about this to be honest.  As a helo pilot I'm always flying below treetop level, and usually hovering in the trees with blades just above.  Most low flying planes won't even notice you as they are too busy looking for the dot; which they won't see because your dot is below the treetops.   If I take a shot and hit a tree, I put blame on myself, not the tree.  I should have positioned myself better, or anticipated the vehicle getting behind a tree before impact. 

 

Now, lets flip the coin.  Being a helo pilot in the trees as stated, there's been quite a few times where a tree has saved me as well.  

 

TL:DR, trees are fine, leave them alone.

I too fly helo's (a lot!) and I don't agree with you.

Trees should be erased/obliterated when they get hit by any type of munition. 

Sure it's nice to seek cover behind them, but try to hit the Shilka hidden between the bushes Notrh-side of Hatay on the 4YA Syria server (to give you a very specific example)

Fire as much rockets/AT missiles as you want at it, but from a shallow "tree top" angle you won't be able to hit as its surrounded by indestructible shrubbery...

 

So yes, +1 to the OP

Trees should be destructible (no fancy gfx damage model effect needed really, just have them removed once hit)

Edited December 16, 2021 by sirrah

[Baaz]

9 minutes ago, sirrah said:

I too fly helo's (a lot!) and I don't agree with you.

Trees should be erased/obliterated when they get hit by any type of munition. 

Sure it's nice to seek cover behind them, but try to hit the Shilka hidden between the bushes Notrh-side of Hatay on the 4YA Syria server (to give you a very specific example)

Fire as much rockets/AT missiles as you want at it, but from a shallow "tree top" angle you won't be able to hit as its surrounded by indestructible shrubbery...

 

So yes, +1 to the OP

Trees should be destructible (no fancy gfx damage model effect needed really, just have them removed once hit)

 

If you read the OP's statements, he's not calling for destructible trees, only that the weapons fired shouldn't be stopped by them.  

I do agree that trees should be destructible, but allowing missiles, bullets, and the like to pass without detonation is a whole different argument.

 

Edit: My statement, "trees are fine, leave them alone," I admit was said in error.  Trees are fine in terms of stopping munitions, but they should be destructible.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baaz

[sirrah]

42 minutes ago, Baaz said:

If you read the OP's statements, he's not calling for destructible trees, only that the weapons fired shouldn't be stopped by them.  

I do agree that trees should be destructible, but allowing missiles, bullets, and the like to pass without detonation is a whole different argument.

 

Edit: My statement, "trees are fine, leave them alone," I admit was said in error.  Trees are fine in terms of stopping munitions, but they should be destructible.

 

You're right. Must admit I skimmed through the OP

 

[Nipil]

We need destructible trees, that's for sure. Yet I believe it's going to drastically lower performance if we had a full-blown damage model for every tree on the map. So simply destroying trees should be enough.

[Worrazen]

For the tree damage model, it doesn't need to be that complex to cover branches, what it could do is have different penetration behavior based on munition flight parameters at impact and type of munition, perhaps it would penetrate through and explode on the other side if you set delay or it just would explode somewhere along the way of penetrating the tree hitbox, that's where the attenuation could come in, the more penetration into the tree hitbox the more damage it will cause on the other side, maybe just this is already costly on CPU, I don't know.

But this would actually require weapon damage-dealing modelling too, in terms of shockwave and explosion radius, which should happen in DCS no matter what because it's a part of the overall ground unit damage modelling, we'll just have to have better hardware if necessary or have it optionally adjustable for lower end HW; ... while the tree just acts as simple attenuator in 3D space so it wouldn't need that much modelling on the tree side, muffling some of the energy in that direction and that's about it. So that if it exploded by tree contact, it'll still do some damage like it would in real-life if there's a unit nearby, even if on other side. Tho, some weapon are designed to only have maximum effect on direct hit and other's are designed to be quite resistant to splash damage so this needs some brainstorming, how the balance of simulation depth should be here.

Thirdly if trees in real life can stop certain munitions or in certain circumstances from detonating altogether then yes that should be the case in DCS, but this surely does not happen all the time right, trees are hard enough to trigger explosion?