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2022 DCS Newsletter Discussion - Week 1 & Week 2 (no newsletters)


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Black Shark 3 is the most anticipated module I am waiting for. Apache looks stunningly beautiful but I am not getting it for myself before George can speak to me.

 

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32 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Black Shark 3 is the most anticipated module I am waiting for. Apache looks stunningly beautiful but I am not getting it for myself before George can speak to me.

 

 

The Apache is gorgeous but it looks like it will be a chopper with an A-10C level of complexity. Not sure I'd enjoy that. If it's available for a free trial I'll give it a go of course, but like you I want the BS3 much more. Hope it's not too long a wait. 

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Your math does not add up, but I understand the sentiment. As mentioned before and many times we shared our plans in a roadmap last year, any of those tasks not completed will continue into 2022 and we will share progress in our future newsletters. I think it is clear to see for everyone why using a roadmap to share plans can give people the wrong impression and why we will not be using one this year. 

Thanks for the feedback.

If I make the assumption, that ED is somewhat profit oriented firm and not a buch of hobbyists it's highy unlikely that no roadmap exists. It's a must to know how to use the funds for the programmers, just to name one important topic. I'm pretty sure that the so called "plans" are indeed roadmaps (=plans with milestones and assigned resources), just ED doesn't want it to be public if they miss a milestone date. That's normal, but only if they doesn't treat their ordinary software users as "stakeholders".

I have no idea how ED can have the right amount of financial resources to make such an enormous development. The price of each module could seem high at first glance (80 USD i.e.), but how many buyers they have? That's not a big budget concerning the number of months/years of hard development each module needs...

If ED have professional users (military, firms etc.) then maybe the income from those sources can be enough to get the bussiness rolling.

When we, the "armchair pilots" are NOT the highest priority customers for ED, then all we can do is wait for any development to be complete, no matter how long it takes. It doesn't matter if they "planned" something to be ready in two weeksTM, if it will take 3 years in reality, that's OK. Who cares? We can do NOTHING against it.

I already asked if the Vulkan development could be speeded up by injecting extra funds in the system. I would PAY for the Vulkan (the new graphic engine in a whole) to be ready earlier to help the developers to assign more human resources. But what if it's simply impossible, like the limited human resources can't be expanded because the lack of competent programmers?

According to the last and only "Multicore development report" I assumed that Vulkan and Multicore can be delivered not sooner than Q2 this year if we are optimistic, but in reality Q4 would be more realistic. But seeing the progress I would not be surprised if we should wait for 2023. We'll "DEAL WITH IT".


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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Some more news for this week, today is the last chance to take advantage of our Winter Sale, which offers up to 50% discount on our most popular modules and campaigns. The Eshop sale will run until the 10th of January 2022 at 15:00 GMT https://digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/

Thanks for your passion and support

The Eagle Dynamics Team

🤣🤣🤣

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57 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Black Shark 3 is the most anticipated module I am waiting for. Apache looks stunningly beautiful but I am not getting it for myself before George can speak to me.

 

BS3 work continues, I hope we can share some more progress with you all soon, our 3d artists are doing a great job and it looks amazing. 

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1 hour ago, St4rgun said:

If I make the assumption, that ED is somewhat profit oriented firm and not a buch of hobbyists it's highy unlikely that no roadmap exists. It's a must to know how to use the funds for the programmers, just to name one important topic. I'm pretty sure that the so called "plans" are indeed roadmaps (=plans with milestones and assigned resources), just ED doesn't want it to be public if they miss a milestone date. That's normal, but only if they doesn't treat their ordinary software users as "stakeholders".

I have no idea how ED can have the right amount of financial resources to make such an enormous development. The price of each module could seem high at first glance (80 USD i.e.), but how many buyers they have? That's not a big budget concerning the number of months/years of hard development each module needs...

If ED have professional users (military, firms etc.) then maybe the income from those sources can be enough to get the bussiness rolling.

When we, the "armchair pilots" are NOT the highest priority customers for ED, then all we can do is wait for any development to be complete, no matter how long it takes. It doesn't matter if they "planned" something to be ready in two weeksTM, if it will take 3 years in reality, that's OK. Who cares? We can do NOTHING against it.

I already asked if the Vulkan development could be speeded up by injecting extra funds in the system. I would PAY for the Vulkan (the new graphic engine in a whole) to be ready earlier to help the developers to assign more human resources. But what if it's simply impossible, like the limited human resources can't be expanded because the lack of competent programmers?

According to the last and only "Multicore development report" I assumed that Vulkan and Multicore can be delivered not sooner than Q2 this year if we are optimistic, but in reality Q4 would be more realistic. But seeing the progress I would not be surprised if we should wait for 2023. We'll "DEAL WITH IT".

 

ED has a 31 year software company founded by Igor Tishin in 1991, with professional contracts from 2007 with Us Air Force and UK Army, and that year has the 10 aniversary to DCS World.... the problem of the "roadmaps" has been used as a weapon by someone to attack to ED about "promises" or "write of stone", include with ED was very clear from some years ago that was only plans.


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5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I think it is clear to see for everyone why using a roadmap to share plans can give people the wrong impression and why we will not be using one this year. 

That's true. It would be better to implement something like issue tracker. Like the one that Kate mentioned 2 years ago on hoggit. What is status on that matter?

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2 hours ago, Sewo said:

That's true. It would be better to implement something like issue tracker. Like the one that Kate mentioned 2 years ago on hoggit. What is status on that matter?

The tracker has some technical challenges to overcome, other than that I have no news to share there.

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Okay, here is my opinion

On the one hand, I understand why devs don't want to share a roadmap again. Some people don't understand that roadmap is something like "hey guys, here are our planes for this year", they take it as "we swear to complete these by Q/1/2/3/4 this year". So if you don't share your plans, people wouldn't believe you gave them a promise. 

But on the other hand "regular newsletter" is not enough IMHO. You can just share a current status of development of all features, like "a progress of RTS is going well, here are some screenshots, we are working at these features at this moment, Vulkan integration is also going well, but there are some issues with new weather engine, so fixing it will take some time, developers of third party Blah-Blah-Blah Inc  have shared new screenshots of the upcoming Papua New Guinea map"

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16 minutes ago, JD said:

Some people don't understand that roadmap is something like "hey guys, here are our planes for this year", they take it as "we swear to complete these by Q/1/2/3/4 this year

 

Back when DCS had just two Modules, I can understand the interest on future development ... but nowadays I really dont get it why people wants to live in the future, when the DCS present is so full of aircrafts yet to be mastered .. I barely have the time to learn two or three new aircrafts on a year, so Why would I be so fixated on what is around the corner?  I much prefer to be surprised when new stuff arrives 🙄

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6 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

... but nowadays I really dont get it why people wants to live in the future, when the DCS present is so full of aircrafts yet to be mastered .. I barely have the time to learn two or three new aircrafts on a year, so Why would I be so fixated on what is around the corner?  I much prefer to be surprised when new stuff arrives 🙄

+1000 Hear! Hear! :thumbup:

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2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Back when DCS had just two Modules, I can understand the interest on future development ... but nowadays I really dont get it why people wants to live in the future, when the DCS present is so full of aircrafts yet to be mastered .. I barely have the time to learn two or three new aircrafts on a year, so Why would I be so fixated on what is around the corner?  I much prefer to be surprised when new stuff arrives 🙄

That's why I'm not interested in Apache so much as long as ALL my modules (about 20) looks so much differenct in VR that in 2D. Unfortunately I fly only VR, so I'm pretty much only interested in Vulkan+Multicore, but I don't care about future plans about integrated maps etc.

As long as the BASIS of the visuals in VR is still not ironed out there's nothing we can speak of.

And by the way hopefully we should see some serious progress in Vulkan+Multicore in the near future (originally "planned" to be deployed by Q3 2021).


Edited by St4rgun
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When Lock On Modern Air Combat first came out a ‘Roadmap’ was something I used to find out where the nearest computer store was so I could go and buy it.

You’d walk in with your hard earned cash pick up the box, buy it and rush home to install the game.

There were no newsletters or announcements of what was to come, you just enjoyed what you had. 

Of course after 10 minutes you realised you needed to spend more money on a new computer. 🤣


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Am 6.1.2022 um 16:04 schrieb BIGNEWY:

We are not planning a roadmap this year, we have tasks open already that need to be completed and we will share our progress during the year in our newsletters to keep you all up to date. Our next newsletter will be on the 14th of January 2022.

thanks

I'm not very happy with it. The roadmap was the only really detailed development report on what the current state of each featueres is. Beyond that, it really showed the vision of where DCS is going. The weekly newsletters do not do it justice

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On 1/9/2022 at 2:39 PM, Sewo said:

That's true. It would be better to implement something like issue tracker. Like the one that Kate mentioned 2 years ago on hoggit. What is status on that matter?

That tracker was cancelled by the same COO that announced it. For various reasons.Not very consistent behaviour I know. 


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6 minutes ago, Germane said:

I'm not very happy with it. The roadmap was the only really detailed development report on what the current state of each featueres is. Beyond that, it really showed the vision of where DCS is going. The weekly newsletters do not do it justice

Our roadmap has not changed from last year, we continue on the projects that are still open, those projects need to be completed before we announce anything new. 
Newsletters will have the information about project status as and when we have news to share. 

thanks

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1 hour ago, Snappy said:

That tracker was cancelled by the same COO that announced it. For various reasons.Not very consistent behaviour I know. 

 

The reasons she gave are imo indicative of a very healthy management style. She has listened to the people who do the work and changed her plans accordingly. Their wellbeing is far more important than our lust for detailed info. When I'm doing carpentry, the one thing that will slow me down most as well as annoy me and destroy any joy in the work, is having the client watch my every move. I bet for a software developer, things aren't all that different. So I applaud her decision. 

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3 hours ago, schurem said:

The reasons she gave are imo indicative of a very healthy management style. She has listened to the people who do the work and changed her plans accordingly. Their wellbeing is far more important than our lust for detailed info. When I'm doing carpentry, the one thing that will slow me down most as well as annoy me and destroy any joy in the work, is having the client watch my every move. I bet for a software developer, things aren't all that different. So I applaud her decision. 

Well even better would’ve been to think that through in the first before going out and making big announcements about the oh-so-feature-rich public tracker that is coming. It’s not a healthy management style to flip flop back and forth and people lose trust in your public communication.Anyway it’s not coming so we can drop it.


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5 hours ago, schurem said:

The reasons she gave are imo indicative of a very healthy management style. She has listened to the people who do the work and changed her plans accordingly. Their wellbeing is far more important than our lust for detailed info. When I'm doing carpentry, the one thing that will slow me down most as well as annoy me and destroy any joy in the work, is having the client watch my every move. I bet for a software developer, things aren't all that different. So I applaud her decision. 

 

On 1/10/2022 at 12:10 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

Back when DCS had just two Modules, I can understand the interest on future development ... but nowadays I really dont get it why people wants to live in the future, when the DCS present is so full of aircrafts yet to be mastered .. I barely have the time to learn two or three new aircrafts on a year, so Why would I be so fixated on what is around the corner?  I much prefer to be surprised when new stuff arrives 🙄

Yup.

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On 1/9/2022 at 2:21 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

ED has a 31 year software company founded by Igor Tishin in 1991, with professional contracts from 2007 with Us Air Force and UK Army, and that year has the 10 aniversary to DCS World.... the problem of the "roadmaps" has been used as a weapon by someone to attack to ED about "promises" or "write of stone", include with ED was very clear from some years ago that was only plans.

 

Sorry If I was a bit ironic with the "bunch of hobbyists" phrase. I KNOW that ED is a highly professional firm, so I'm SURE they have detailed roadmaps, period. They don't want the deadlines to be puplic, it's fine, absolutely understandable.

But for god's sake why don't they implement a progress indicator stripe for us to see the development status for the ongoing BIG blocks (like the graphic engine overhaul, Vulkan, Multicore, VR optimization)? Everyone remember the oldie but goldie operating system installer progress indicators, where the line went to 95% in 1 minute just to stay there for the following 10 minutes before reaching the 100%. That's not even a problem, but seing the progress of "something happening in the deep" is MUCH better than having some sparse comment from some CM like "we are having good progress", but this is only if we explicitely asked for news.

How is it possible, that months of whining from the community resulted in one, only ONE report on the progress of Multicore as a "development report", but since then nothing more. And that one report was only neccesary because they silently passed the "planned" deadline without further preliminary info, so AFTER Q3 passed they decided to write that. Don't get me wrong I was really happy to have that info, but after that what we have is silence. Sorry, I'm lying: we have the "we are making good progress" answer.

During the same period we can know from the newletters that the pilot of the Mi24 will have a highy detailed wristwatch, and his glove will be fine leather all are perfecly modelled... Seriously?


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ED could take a leaf out of another combat air sim's book. Dev reports there are often quite detailed and wide ranging and have done a lot to keep the community on side (as much as a community can be anyhow) even when stuff has slipped and slipped again. Not every posts mentions long standing stuff and most is about new toys but the variety is there and in much greater measure than it is here. More imprtantly some of the problems that the Devs encounter are spoken about  (even if not in great detail) to help the community see why something is so. 

Doesnt have to be every week or even monthly. A solid semi -in-depth update every quarter or even twice yearly perhaps. People just want a little reassurance that the big outlays they make and the time they invest are worthwhile.  If you take the very recent bugtracker news, one perhaps can understand why we get anxious and act up when ED goes dark on something even if the descision not to proceed down the line is sound.

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On 1/10/2022 at 1:10 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

Back when DCS had just two Modules, I can understand the interest on future development ... but nowadays I really dont get it why people wants to live in the future, when the DCS present is so full of aircrafts yet to be mastered .. I barely have the time to learn two or three new aircrafts on a year, so Why would I be so fixated on what is around the corner?  I much prefer to be surprised when new stuff arrives 🙄

 

1 - Some people are waiting and hoping for that one magic module to appear. The one they would trade a half dozen other planes for. For some it's the F4 Phantom. They'd happily trade in their Hornet and Viper for a top shelf Phantom because it's the plane they love. Maybe they built models of it as a kid, or saw it in a movie, and it just found a place in their daydreams.

 

2 - There's the general love of airplanes. Even if we don't master them we still enjoy flying them. I haven't "mastered" one of the planes or choppers I own, and I own many. But I still enjoy flying them because I like "flying my little airplanes", as an ex-GF once put it.

 

3 - There's also the joy of expectation. People like having something to look forward to. 

 

Add those three up they equal an  F-104. :happy:

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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53 minutes ago, St4rgun said:

Sorry If I was a bit ironic with the "bunch of hobbyists" phrase. I KNOW that ED is a highly professional firm, so I'm SURE they have detailed roadmaps, period. They don't want the deadlines to be puplic, it's fine, absolutely understandable.

But for god's sake why don't they implement a progress indicator stripe for us to see the development status for the ongoing BIG blocks (like the graphic engine overhaul, Vulkan, Multicore, VR optimization)? Everyone remember the oldie but goldie operating system installer progress indicators, where the line went to 95% in 1 minute just to stay there for the following 10 minutes before reaching the 100%. That's not even a problem, but seing the progress of "something happening in the deep" is MUCH better than having some sparse comment from some CM like "we are having good progress", but this is only if we explicitely asked for news.

How is it possible, that months of whining from the community resulted in one, only ONE report on the progress of Multicore as a "development report", but since then nothing more. And that one report was only neccesary because they silently passed the "planned" deadline without further preliminary info, so AFTER Q3 passed they decided to write that. Don't get me wrong I was really happy to have that info, but after that what we have is silence. Sorry, I'm lying: we have the "we are making good progress" answer.

During the same period we can know from the newletters that the pilot of the Mi24 will have a highy detailed wristwatch, and his glove will be fine leather all are perfecly modelled... Seriously?

 

You are new here? Some need remember the actual situations was only a repeat of the old times of 2013-2015, when ED, Wags and other ED members puts develop info on the DCS forum... some members start to attack ED about "where are MY promisses X" and "deadlines Y" with angry and personal attack vs the develop team. ED put a info "Blackout" and that the news turn to minimun. Some years ago ED build the week updates and the years "plans" Roadmap , but now, we have the same situation..... "where are my promises X" has return and that year has none new roadmap (surelly to no use them as a weapon) and wait if the newsletters return...

And about the detail "Mi24 pilot clock and the fine leather", thank by considerate the Mocap team and the 3D human modelers teams, your work has a waste of time. The same situation with the "Beer tank" on the Mosquito by the 3D modelers stuff teams. Surely that teams has been happy to show more about your work on any newsletter in a future.




 


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