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Are Wags TSD videos confusing anyone but me?


Mad Dog 762
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I have already kind of read through much of the -10 for the Apache, so I had some kind of understanding of the MFD's, but man, I am having a hard time digesting Wag's videos on it.  Anybody else?  Maybe it will be easier when I can do some of the stuff hands on, but right now it seems pretty confusing.  

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What are you questions about the TSD page on the MPD. I'd be happy to help. 

Also full disclosure, if there's something I can't answer I won't, and if it's something that I'm unsure of due to version difference I won't attempt to bs you so I'll just tell you I can't answer that. But so far from the video that I've seen everything makes sense, but maybe it's because I'm familiar with the MPD pages so I should be able to answer most of your questions. 

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How do you keep track of what you "can" and "can't" answer??

 

I'd just be a wreck and wouldn't answer a damn thing...

 

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56 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

How do you keep track of what you "can" and "can't" answer??

 

I'd just be a wreck and wouldn't answer a damn thing...

 

It's an interesting process, if I wouldn't tell you in person at a little airport or while on display, I won't say it on here 

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I have watched them both a few more times and I think its just the fact there are two phases, multiple types of points, multiple possible routes, etc.   It is much more confusing than most aircraft where you have 1 route with a set of waypoints.  Is there a way to drop a point for something you see through the IHADSS?  So that if you see a threat or target you want to come back to you can easily mark it?  

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37 minutes ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

I have watched them both a few more times and I think its just the fact there are two phases, multiple types of points, multiple possible routes, etc.   It is much more confusing than most aircraft where you have 1 route with a set of waypoints.  Is there a way to drop a point for something you see through the IHADSS?  So that if you see a threat or target you want to come back to you can easily mark it?  

Wags talks about it at the end, but as long as you're playing from the CPG station with HMD as your selected sight you should be able to hit the target store on the L tedac handle with the LOS (crosshair) on the point of intrest.  If Tads is your selected sight you could acq either the P-HMD if he's looking at it or acq your helmet C-HMD (only person that can use tads as a sight is the cpg) or just manually slew over to the threat and target store up.  A little crew coordination involved if you're flying from the pilot station and once you hit store target it will drop a target there, in both HMD's and on the TDU a TXX will show up and on the TSD a target should be in vicinity of where you wanted one. 

So all the 2 phases do is basically change what information is on the screen to keep it from being cluttered or prioritizing what's important for enroute and what's important to you during attack, every person has different preferences I find. It does some other things regarding other systems (nothing that affects shooting or actually fighting the aircraft just information displayed) that I'm not going to go into. 

I find the routes on the apache pretty simple but maybe that's just me, you can build them on the fly, you can build a ring route, or you can just fly direct to your point.  The benefit to this is you can find low terrain in and have an alternate, and a planned route out.  You can build ring routes as well.  Another simpler thing is if you want you can just drop a single point at where you want to go, and direct to it which will give you only information to that point and you fly to that point as you see fit.  Which is probably more of what you're used too. 

I hope that helps 


Edited by kgillers3
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On the real aircraft, most of this would be done on a mission planning computer and just loaded via the data cartridge though, right?  You wouldn't normally be do all this through the MFD?

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18 minutes ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

On the real aircraft, most of this would be done on a mission planning computer and just loaded via the data cartridge though, right?  You wouldn't normally be do all this through the MFD?

Depends on what we're trying to accomplish, some of it would be done on the MPD

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13 hours ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

I have already kind of read through much of the -10 for the Apache, so I had some kind of understanding of the MFD's, but man, I am having a hard time digesting Wag's videos on it.  Anybody else?  Maybe it will be easier when I can do some of the stuff hands on, but right now it seems pretty confusing.  

Hmm, I found those videos of Wags to be crystal clear. Granted, it's a lot of information to take in and I had to repeat several sections of the video to fully comprehend it, but in the end everything that is shown there makes total sense to me.


Edited by QuiGon

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb kgillers3:

Wags talks about it at the end, but as long as you're playing from the CPG station with HMD as your selected sight you should be able to hit the target store on the L tedac handle with the LOS (crosshair) on the point of intrest.  If Tads is your selected sight you could acq either the P-HMD if he's looking at it or acq your helmet C-HMD (only person that can use tads as a sight is the cpg) or just manually slew over to the threat and target store up.  A little crew coordination involved if you're flying from the pilot station and once you hit store target it will drop a target there, in both HMD's and on the TDU a TXX will show up and on the TSD a target should be in vicinity of where you wanted one. 

So all the 2 phases do is basically change what information is on the screen to keep it from being cluttered or prioritizing what's important for enroute and what's important to you during attack, every person has different preferences I find. It does some other things regarding other systems (nothing that affects shooting or actually fighting the aircraft just information displayed) that I'm not going to go into. 

I find the routes on the apache pretty simple but maybe that's just me, you can build them on the fly, you can build a ring route, or you can just fly direct to your point.  The benefit to this is you can find low terrain in and have an alternate, and a planned route out.  You can build ring routes as well.  Another simpler thing is if you want you can just drop a single point at where you want to go, and direct to it which will give you only information to that point and you fly to that point as you see fit.  Which is probably more of what you're used too. 

I hope that helps 

 

i think the „problem“ is, that these videos are really theoretical, and that everything will be a lot easier and self explaining as soon as people can try it out themselve.

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Hi@all,

I feel the same way. And the more videos from ED come to this module, the less interesting I find it. I have the impression that here you are more busy pushing buttons and moving pointers back and forth than flying. Someone called Apache a flying computer. That's probably true. But is my personal opinion. 

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What Wag's has shown so far is no more complicated than the A10C. Perhaps with the possible exception of the multiple WP's/Control Measures symbols. If you're happy with the A10, then the Apache will be fine. Things may get a little more complicated much later when you factor in multi-crew sensor/sight sharing etc, target handovers between the crew, and of course the FCR and datalink when they arrive.....

If you want a pure stick and collective experience, there's always the Huey.


Edited by AvroLanc
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2 hours ago, kotor633 said:

Hi@all,

I feel the same way. And the more videos from ED come to this module, the less interesting I find it. I have the impression that here you are more busy pushing buttons and moving pointers back and forth than flying. Someone called Apache a flying computer. That's probably true. But is my personal opinion. 

Haha, it's totally the opposite for me. The past 3 Apache videos have really started the hype for me, as I'm really into all those battle management features. It looks like the Apache will even outclass the A-10C in this regard, which is among my absolute favorites so far, because of it's battle managment systems and capabilities. I'm not so much into aviation, but into warfighting on a bigger scope.


Edited by QuiGon
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3 часа назад, NWGJulian сказал:

i think the „problem“ is, that these videos are really theoretical, and that everything will be a lot easier and self explaining as soon as people can try it out themselve.

Thisss. When I watched the A-10 tutorials all the coolie hats, China hats, SMS switches, DMS switches had my poor brain in stitches. However, once I booted up the training mission and actually tried manipulating them on a keyboard (not even a HOTAS) one at a time they immediately started to make sense. I still don't know them all by name but I know what switch does what, and that's all that counts, really. The training missions tend to be very good in pretty much all the modules, so let's wait until we can actually try the thing ourselves, and maybe the OP's problem will resolve on its own.

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3 hours ago, NWGJulian said:

i think the „problem“ is, that these videos are really theoretical, and that everything will be a lot easier and self explaining as soon as people can try it out themselve.

Everything is usually pretty easy with hands on, the processes with alittle beep booping will make sense. All I can say is dropping routes and points is easy and pretty intuitive for most peeps

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7 hours ago, AvroLanc said:

What Wag's has shown so far is no more complicated than the A10C

Well, the A-10's CDU definitely has a lot of pages, the vast majority of the nitty-gritty advanced functions are either not modelled in the game (so you can change them but don't do anything) or they are hardcoded, stactic texts which only exist for immersion purposes. A comparably complex system would be a fully simulated TAD, however for the A-10 the majority of the functons for that are missing. If we had a fully simulated TAD, I'd agree but even if you compare the navigation system, the A-10 in DCS simply doesn't have nearly as many different point types that all represent something different, and for the Apache, it looks like they have the ability to simulate a lot more things than for the A-10 (or any other jet.) Tons and tons of point types, different map types and symbology and so on. I'd wager that the COMM suite will be just as complete while in the A-10 an entire MFCD page that is used to control the radios, transponders and VMF messages is flat out not implemented at all. 

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4 minutes ago, WobblyFlops said:

Well, the A-10's CDU definitely has a lot of pages, the vast majority of the nitty-gritty advanced functions are either not modelled in the game (so you can change them but don't do anything) or they are hardcoded, stactic texts which only exist for immersion purposes. A comparably complex system would be a fully simulated TAD, however for the A-10 the majority of the functons for that are missing. If we had a fully simulated TAD, I'd agree but even if you compare the navigation system, the A-10 in DCS simply doesn't have nearly as many different point types that all represent something different, and for the Apache, it looks like they have the ability to simulate a lot more things than for the A-10 (or any other jet.) Tons and tons of point types, different map types and symbology and so on. I'd wager that the COMM suite will be just as complete while in the A-10 an entire MFCD page that is used to control the radios, transponders and VMF messages is flat out not implemented at all. 

I’m interested to see what they do with Apaches COMM page. I imagine most of it will be static and non functional. There’s a lot of network configuration and cryptology stuff for the 5 radios that we won’t see I guess. 
We don’t know, but I imagine we’ll be limited fundamentally to setting 5 frequencies and simple call signs. 

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On 12/22/2021 at 4:51 PM, kgillers3 said:

What are you questions about the TSD page on the MPD. I'd be happy to help.

Not so much a systems functionality question, but what is your normal dwell state regarding what screen you have called up and what mode its in during each phase of flight if its not being needed for anything specific at the moment. There's a ton of different screens and options to get lost in.

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On 12/31/2021 at 9:35 AM, ASAP said:

Not so much a systems functionality question, but what is your normal dwell state regarding what screen you have called up and what mode its in during each phase of flight if its not being needed for anything specific at the moment. There's a ton of different screens and options to get lost in.

Pilot - T/O and cruise, L Engine R TSD. Objective- L WPN  and VID switching back and forth pending the engagement R TSD.  

CPG not flying T/O L Engine R TSD, Cruise After I do whatever it is that needs to be done, L Weapon / Perf (to brief p* on current performance going into BP or something) Right TSD different scales and potentially looking at the area we're going too.  Objective L Weapon R TSD 

CPG Flying mirrors Pilot.  

Primarily I use Engine top level, every so often scan the SYS side, Perf gets checked multiple times through the flight, Weapons page, the Video page if I'm Back seat to check what the cpg is looking at, and TSD to help me keep SA of what's going on around me and where the aircraft is to quickly set it up for engagements.  And i have access to the flight page via the z axis of the symbiology switch. 

I will say I'm still refining how I use the pages, the ENG page isn't necessary because if anything does happen it will autopage for you back to the ENG Page.  I'm not sure I'll ever stop refining what works and it'll probably be different for every pilot / mission.  The important thing is when you do it, you'll find out what you find valuable and find what pages help you.  

Hope this helps


Edited by kgillers3
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