No more DME for aerial TACAN?

[STKDirty]

I noticed after the latest OB patch that the DME distance for aerial TACAN, aka tankers, is no longer there.  Was that intended?  Is anyone else seeing that?  I'll provide more detail if that is not the intended behavior of TACAN for aerial targets.  Thanks!

 

[Hulkbust44]

It should work, whole point...

What band?

Mobius708

[AG-51_Razor]

I just noticed the same problem. 71X set up for air to air gave me a bearing as well as the correct identifier, ARC, but no distance or time to station. Others in my squad reported the same thing. It was correctly put in the ME for that tanker also.

[Dunx]

Confirmed, TACAN is broken.

1. Created mission with 2 tankers and carrier... all TACAN appear without using AA option (73X, 30X, 31X)

2. Edited mission, changed tanker from 31X to 30Y... all TACAN stations lose distance and codes (73X, 30X, 30Y)

Please move this post to Bugs.

test-tacan-1.trk test-tacan-2.trk

[AG-51_Razor]

Dunx, are you saying that the Tacans on the tankers worked normally by NOT using the AA position for the Tacan in your cockpit??

[Dunx]

1 hour ago, AG-51_Razor said:

Dunx, are you saying that the Tacans on the tankers worked normally by NOT using the AA position for the Tacan in your cockpit??

The first play of the mission, yes.

After changing one of the tankers to use 30Y then the distance and tacan codes vanished for all stations.

[AG-51_Razor]

Very strange indeed.

[Kang]

 I know this might sound crazy, but I don't remember ever getting a range reading from a tanker's TACAN.

[VFA41_Lion]

you could always get both distance and bearing from a tanker TACAN, its been that way since at least the Hornet's release. This is almost 100% a bug, or ED forgot to mention in the changelog.

[johnnychemo]

That's pretty much what I found on my own investigation. You have to have the tanker use an "x" band and NOT select AA on the UFC to get the distance and bearing to show up now.

 

[fagulha]

On 12/25/2021 at 3:20 PM, VFA41_Lion said:

you could always get both distance and bearing from a tanker TACAN, its been that way since at least the Hornet's release. This is almost 100% a bug, or ED forgot to mention in the changelog.

As far as i know you could get DME and bearing from X band only, Y band never gived me DME (i have the Hornet since day one).

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

As far as I know (and read on these forums when commented on by people far more knowledgeable than myself) this is how it's supposed to be: you don't get range information in A/A TACAN in real life either.

[VFA41_Lion]

4 hours ago, fagulha said:

As far as i know you could get DME and bearing from X band only, Y band never gived me DME (i have the Hornet since day one).

i've gotten it to work with the Y band lots of times

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

As far as I know (and read on these forums when commented on by people far more knowledgeable than myself) this is how it's supposed to be: you don't get range information in A/A TACAN in real life either.

Opposite. Range without bearing, unless you are dealing with large aircraft that have the onboard equipment. 

[QuiGon]

Literally everyone in this thread says something different on how it works or should work. I'm confused.

[WobblyFlops]

3 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Literally everyone in this thread says something different on how it works or should work. I'm confused.

Simply put: AA TACAN in fighters: range only.

Tankers: Range and azimuth, because tankers have a partial array in the aft compartment to help jets line up better in bad visibility. Obviously fighters don't have the space to carry such a contraption. 

 

This is a bug and it impacts the Viper as well.

[Swift.]

3 hours ago, WobblyFlops said:

Simply put: AA TACAN in fighters: range only.

Tankers: Range and azimuth, because tankers have a partial array in the aft compartment to help jets line up better in bad visibility. Obviously fighters don't have the space to carry such a contraption. 

 

This is a bug and it impacts the Viper as well.

I've heard the 130 and 135 don't have bearing either. I think its just KC-10 that has bearing.

[Sn8ke]

IRL tankers don’t have bearing, mainly because they are unarmed and unescorted. AWACS can give you bearing/range over secure nets, or you can use your radar and SA functions.

[QuiGon]

4 hours ago, WobblyFlops said:

Simply put: AA TACAN in fighters: range only.

Tankers: Range and azimuth, because tankers have a partial array in the aft compartment to help jets line up better in bad visibility. Obviously fighters don't have the space to carry such a contraption. 

 

This is a bug and it impacts the Viper as well.

49 minutes ago, Sn8ke said:

IRL tankers don’t have bearing, mainly because they are unarmed and unescorted. AWACS can give you bearing/range over secure nets, or you can use your radar and SA functions.

It would be nice if people in this thread would stop contradicting each other. I'm still confused

[VFA41_Lion]

how it works IRL and how it works in DCS are two very different things.

in the sim, the mission editor allows you to have range and bearing for the KC-130, KC-135MPRS, and S-3B Tanker.

(presumably the boom tanker one too but i never fly boom aircraft so i couldn't say for sure)

Edited December 27, 2021 by VFA41_Lion

[Sn8ke]

5 minutes ago, VFA41_Lion said:

how it works IRL and how it works in DCS are two very different things.

in the sim, the mission editor allows you to have range and bearing for the KC-130, KC-135MPRS, and S-3B Tanker.

(presumably the boom tanker one too but i never fly boom aircraft so i couldn't say for sure)

 

I mean, you can set up all the TACANs in the sim to display bearing/range, however from a MILSIM perspective I disable bearing for realism's sake. 

[VFA41_Lion]

6 minutes ago, Sn8ke said:

I mean, you can set up all the TACANs in the sim to display bearing/range, however from a MILSIM perspective I disable bearing for realism's sake. 

okay but that is kind of irrelevant to the "is this a bug?" question

and that answer is: yes

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by VFA41_Lion
embed failure

[MrWolf]

TACAN needs an array of antennas to perform some kind of spatial modulation that can reflect from which heading the receiving aircraft it's receiving the TACAN station signal. For distance no need of array because the distance it's obtained from the round trip time of an STATION broadcast interrogation pulse and a reply transmitted by the receiving transponder.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/nrtc/14090_ch2.pdf

 

So as someone already said: Big aircraft may be capable of having an array of antennas to perform bearing measuring (Ground stations of course) and distance, figher aircraft only capable of performing the distance measuring of the TACAN system.

But it's dependent on the manufacturer of the aircraft maybe all those big aircraft doesn't have an array to perform TACAN bearing measuring.

 

One thing is clear. All aircraft are capable of distance measuring with TACAN if they have a TACAN transponder and an antenna installed.

Edited January 1, 2022 by MrWolf

[Chuck_Henry]

I've tanked with KC-130Js in real life. The default is "normal" A/A TACAN which provides only range. However, they have a separate TACAN on board that can provide bearing. You can even couple your aircraft's Flight Director to it, if so equipped. However, that particular device is often broken and the -130 crew has no way of knowing if it's actually giving you bearing. Their crew troubleshooting and asking us to verify if we were receiving bearing or not was like those old cell phone commercials, "Can you hear me now? How about now?"

[El Chapo]

Same IRL experience as Chuck Henry. A/A bearing is exceptional. Most tankers only give a range.

Bearing has to be obtained by other means...