Upgrade the VR HMD instead of the GPU?

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, Pyker said:

You mean DCS won’t look good at all with PD=1.0 in an Index (or VP2 at half res) ?

no i mean you get more granular results, so fine tuning can be done.. and as most peoples maths is fairly basic, i would strongly recommend only changing the number in one place because some of the unintended consequences are shattering... net net if you change with PD or CRM  performance will be a function of the total number of pixels, as will clarity, more pixels slower but clearer...  and for everyone the balance point is ... unique ... what works for me , might not quite work for you. some people swear by 60hz, it makes me want to throw up...  but for them its a great compromise.

13 minutes ago, edmuss said:

PD gives the same result as steamvr but the number are linked to different values. Steamvr 200% is about equal to PD 1.4 I think. They are both cumulative though so steamvr@100 with PD 1.4 is the same as steamvr@200 with PD 1.0, steamvr@200 with PD 1.4 is the same as steamvr@400.

Reverb at 50% steamvr and PD1 in DCS looks better than the Lenovo did but it's obviously a blurrier display compared to 100%.

That said I've invested a lot of time tweaking DCS to get the best image quality for me and applying the same changes would probably make the Lenovo more useable. My main complaint with the Lenovo in DCS was that the HUD was difficult to read with fuzzy text, that was a couple of years ago though and never really bothered with VR past a cursory try out.

You can always run the reverb right down to very low resolution, the display is still a 4k panel equivalent but obviously the rendered image suffers as a result because you're downsampling.

this 

Edited January 1, 2022 by speed-of-heat

[edmuss]

Yeah I'm on 60hz on the reverb, I suffer absolutely no issues with it but then I've never suffered from motion sickness. Even the janky loading screens don't bother me

[wormeaten]

On 1/1/2022 at 1:55 PM, edmuss said:

Yeah I'm on 60hz on the reverb, I suffer absolutely no issues with it but then I've never suffered from motion sickness. Even the janky loading screens don't bother me

I can confirm that as well. I have a similar experience with Q2. G2 is the best buy Headset in performance per $. Best value. Q2 is half price but if you have it as a more permanent solution you will soon spend 200 or even 300$ for upgrades to reach the level of G2 in audio and comfort for example.
With your current GPU, you will run G2 on 60Hz and Q2 on 72Hz but it is a smooth experience. With both G2 on 50% SS or Q2 on 1.0 PD is looking somehow as CV1 at 1.6 but without SDE.
SDE is simply gone compared to CV1. It is still there but so slightly so in normal usage you have to focus on details to find it. On CV1 SDE is annoying no matter how much you crank PD.
Now depending on your preferences. G2 is a better permanent solution for flight and driving sims on a desktop PC. Q2 is more versatile and has a huge advantage with WiFi support in more casual usage. Impact on hardware after tweaking the game is similar when you reach similar results. The result is almost the same in G2 50% vs Q2 1.2 PD visually and impacts your GPU mostly. 3090 can work in VR with full potential even with i5 11400 so all that money you can save on CPU push in better GPU.
I will like to have G2 and Q2 at the same time and it is my goal in the future but right now my budget dictates Q2 be the first choice and I didn't regret it and to be honest, Q2 is giving me much more than I was originally expected. If you chose G2 because you have only sims in mind it is a great choice too. It all depends on your preferences.

[Pyker]

Thank you for all this info.  I agree that the G2 is closer to what I want than the Q2 because I use the HMD exclusively for DCS and elite dangerous.  I read that the G2 has an improved FOV compared to the CV1.  And there’S a FrankenFOV mod for the G2, I heard.

 I’d really like the FOV of the index (or the VP2) but I understand that it’s not a good idea given the price and the requirements.

[speed-of-heat]

The G2 v2 comes with its own frakenfov mod

[Pyker]

22 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

The G2 v2 comes with its own frakenfov mod

Indeed I read that too but I have to check’that it is available where I live (continental Europe).

OTOH the user reviews that I found so far are mixed about whether the G2’ FOV is actually (noticeably) improved compared to the CV1’s.

[speed-of-heat]

I love the G2, it has its quirks its, by no means the "without compromise" that was advertised but it works more than well enough for my purposes, and is a good price performance compromise.   I never played with the CV1 so I have no way of knowing in terms of actual experience .

It's worth noting that some manufactures quote horizontal and some vertical. But the horizontal FOV of the G2 is about 98 degrees, (compared to 88 for the CV1) source VRcompare - The Internet's Largest VR & AR Headset Database (vr-compare.com), I still notice a feeling of wearing a "swim mask" compared to the real world, but the 2 degree improvement was noticeable to me, so imagine the 10 degrees will be for you.

I think the challenge with increasing FOV is functionally you are required to drive more pixels to get improved FOV with the same pixel density, (with lower Pixel Density you will get an increased screen door effect), which costs additional hardware performance, thats especially true of the Fresnel lenses we have today on consumer headsets.  The Varjo Aero is likely "the best" headset for overall FOV and clarity (according to reviews) but the price is... 4x what you will pay for a G2 complete, and you will likely spend the cost of a G2 on accessories to make it work e.g. base stations and, if you do anything other than flight sim, controllers as well to be fair if I had a spare 3k I would likely buy one.  That said we don't really know what is coming down the pike in the world of VR.

However, if comming from Oculus-land you may have a rude awakening in the UI... especially in DCS because there are so many places that you can change stuff, WMR, Open XR, WMR for Steam VR, Steam VR, DCS related to the operation of the headset.  point WMR and WMR for Steam VR (leave Open XR for DCS) and make all the resolution changes in Steam VR... and life will be considerably easier.  Honestly I never touch  anything other than Steam VR to change headset factors (unless I'm experimenting with something new).  HTH

[Pyker]

I already use a VRcover thing that improves the CV1's FOV.  Thus whether the G2 (V2 or with frankenfov mod) would be a significant improvement for me wrt the FOV is a lottery... I'll have to try (and return the headset if disappointed).

Where does your two degree FOV improvement come from ? Frankenfov?

WRT the UI, well, I guess I would just install all the required software and then set the resolution in steamVR at 50% (MRTV says it still looks quite good at 50%), the PD at 1.0 and all graphical settings to low (except "textures") in DCS.  Is there more to do than that ?

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

 

[speed-of-heat]

No that’s native, I use the vrcover for the g2, as I was an early adopter and I only have the g2v1, but the vr cover works well to improve the fov a little further …not a lot but again noticeable .

on your current hardware, I really wouldn’t recommend it. Even with all the settings on potato…

[edmuss]

I am on my second G2, first one went bad a week before warranty expired and I got the updated cable and a replacement headset from HP, it came with the original G2 face gasket though.

That said, my head size/shape seems to be perfectly matched to the original gasket and I can barely get any more FOV. If I really force my face into the gasket I can see the edges of the screen which is no good, for me I'm happy with the FOV available.

Without the GPU upgrade then you'll never run it to full potential in DCS but it will be an improvement in just about all ways over the CV1; you can always run the G2 at CV1 resolution and wind up the settings and resolution till it doesn't work for you

[Pyker]

Found this...

 

 

 

[Pyker]

Well, after re-reading all the kind answers to all my questions, reading some more reviews, sleeping over them and playing one more time with my CV1, I concluded that what I miss the most is not a clearer image (less SDE) or more details or more eye candy or more fps, but just a greater FOV.  Curious, as most other DCS players seem to prefer more clarity (that is, the G2 or the Q2).

That means: no G2 or Q2 for me.  Either I wait at least 6 more months (probably much longer than that) and save money to buy first a better GPU and then a valve index or whatever is the king of FOV by then (assuming it won't cost me my second kidney), or I buy first a vive pro 2 and enjoy its better FOV and clearer displays, at half resolution (about the same as the CV1's) until GPUs become affordable again.

(Yes the VP2 is the most expensive of the bunch but the Index and the G2 aren't cheap either around here (Europe) and currently a RTX3060 or even a 2060 costs about as much.)

Too bad there's less feedback on the VP2 (since there are many more G2 and Q2 owners, I guess).

Anyway, thank you all for your answers and comments!

[dburne]

Vive Pro 2 is a very nice headset currently.

[Pyker]

6 minutes ago, dburne said:

Vive Pro 2 is a very nice headset currently.

Hello,

I see in your signature that you have both the index and the pro 2.  Would you have any comments on their FOVs, and on what DCS in the VP2 looks like in half res (if you ever tried)?

Thanks in advance.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Pyker said:

Hello,

I see in your signature that you have both the index and the pro 2.  Would you have any comments on their FOVs, and on what DCS in the VP2 looks like in half res (if you ever tried)?

Thanks in advance.

 

Horizontal FOV is comparable, Vertical is smaller in the VP2.

No have not ever tried at half res, I get pretty smooth gameplay at around 2800-3k per eye. Motion Compensation on.

[Pyker]

15 minutes ago, dburne said:

Vertical is smaller in the VP2.

Is that a big deal for you ?

[edmuss]

Don't forget that you can still get FE 30xx cards for the "low" msrp as set by nvidia, I bought my 3070FE for £469 two months ago.
Sign up to the telegram channel FePartAlert and that will send notifications when the stocks are available in the EU, typically there is a stock drop every month.
You don't have to overpay through the nose, just have a little luck with timing.

I think you might be getting a little too hung up on the FOV of the headset, peripheral vision in VR is blurry (as is real life) and never in my experience with the G2 have I thought "I don't have enough FOV".  I can see all around the cockpit without any issues, if I want to check 6 then lean forwards a little to get out of the seat back and twist at the hips to look behind me.  From speed-of-heat's responses earlier, I think the G2 FOV is significantly better than the CV1 anyway, indeed I think the only way to achieve what you want would be to go to pimax/xtal, neither of which are applicable due to hardware and budget. What you can't do with consumer grade headsets is look all around with your eyes and get a clear display due to the focal qualities of the lenses; some are better than others, I believe that the Q2 has a wider focal spot than the G2.

For me, clarity in DCS is key so you can see the small details etc.  I can sit back in the A10C and read every number on the guages and text on the switches and hud without having to lean forwards, obviously clarity improves as you get closer but at a quick glance it's perfectly legible.

[Pyker]

Thank you, I’ll have a look at this telegram thing.  Who knows.  But, probably, so many people are on it by now...

I seriously considered the G2.  But For the price they ask around here and the marginal increase in FOV (which depends on the user’s head (shape)) it is not worth it.  Me just want mo’ bigger better FOV, period  

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Pyker

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Pyker said:

Is that a big deal for you ?

No not at all - I get such a better image clarity in Vive Pro 2 versus Index - to me that makes it more than worth it. Seems almost a generational difference as compared to the Index. Index is a fantastic solid headset and just reeks of quality, but the displays are getting somewhat dated now. To me the Vive Pro 2 combined with the Index Lighthouse tracking system is currently the cream of the crop. And since HTC fixed the Motion Compensation with last update it really shines.

I would even pick Reverb G2 with it's smaller horizontal FOV over Index for flight sims. In fact I still use Reverb G2 for MSFS 2020 due to the excellent performance I get with it using Open XR and Open XR Developer Tools for WMR.  DCS I use Vive Pro 2 all the way.

I have a Varjo Aero on pre-order, really hoping that can get me back to using one headset only for all my games.

[Pyker]

5 minutes ago, dburne said:

No not at all - I get such a better image clarity in Vive Pro 2 versus Index - to me that makes it more than worth it. Seems almost a generational difference as compared to the Index. Index is a fantastic solid headset and just reeks of quality, but the displays are getting somewhat dated now. To me the Vive Pro 2 combined with the Index Lighthouse tracking system is currently the cream of the crop. And since HTC fixed the Motion Compensation with last update it really shines.

I would even pick Reverb G2 with it's smaller horizontal FOV over Index for flight sims. In fact I still use Reverb G2 for MSFS 2020 due to the excellent performance I get with it using Open XR and Open XR Developer Tools for WMR.  DCS I use Vive Pro 2 all the way.

I have a Varjo Aero on pre-order, really hoping that can get me back to using one headset only for all my games.

Thanks a lot for the details.  Some reviews say that the VP2 hasn’t got enough binocular overlap (that not enough of the picture is seen by both eyes at the same time) compared to other headsets.  Have you noticed that?

Congrats on your Varjo!

Edited January 4, 2022 by Pyker

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Pyker said:

Thanks a lot for the details.  Some reviews say that the VP2 hasn’t got enough binocular overlap (that not enough of the picture is seen by both eyes at the same time) compared to other headsets.  Have you noticed that?

Congrats on your Varjo!

 

No can't say I have noticed anything like that.

However I would note I am half blind, I have no vision right of center. So I may not be best to judge on that.

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by dburne