fixed Excessive reflections in the cockpit since 2.7.9 update.

[LeCuvier]

I just took the Anton out in free flight to try something, and was shocked by the strong reflections especiall on the windscreen. Impossible to fight with this optical handicap. I tried the Dora just to be sure I don't have a general settings problem, but the Dora is fine.

[LeCuvier]

Seems I'm the only one experiencing this problem. Or have people given up flying this aircraft? That's what I'll do if this doesn't get fixed. It's already handicapped by its poor dogfighting performance and it doesn't need any additional handicap.

[Lt_Jaeger]

I tried it after your report, and actually like what I see. I might be different than the "normal" user since I don't want to be competitive but looking for total immersion. You won't find any bindings on my hotas that's normally not there, in the Anton the only compromise is the safety cover which I put on the throttle, everything else I operate by hand. Sure, I don't fly WB very often, but these reflections can be found on my favorite and almost exclusive ride, the Tomcat, as well. That said, yes, they are disturbing, but I would expect the same in the real thing and thous welcome stuff like that, even so I lost some dogfights, due to losing sight on the target to reflections, or the need to quickly peek down, to operate something. Oh, by the way, I fly in VR which actually make the reflection look very nice, I love to see them moving with changing lighting conditions. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[LeCuvier]

Well, I don't fly in VR and I don't like to be frustrated. And maybe that's because I'm 76. My screenshot didn't capture the reflections well. Here is what it really looks like for me, captured with the Windows 10 snipping tool.
I tried the same scenario in 2.7.7 stable release with the same graphics settings, and it has none of this.

Edited December 29, 2021 by LeCuvier

[Slice313]

Reflections are poor (before it was just broken), I don't know why we cant have reflections similar to what we see with the P47... Sadly the only way of seeing anything now is using a mod to remove this...

[Art-J]

Not to mention that reflections texture on the windscreen doesn't make any sense from "content" point of view. It has instruments painted on - and it absolutely shouldn't, because the whole instrument panel is hidden deep under the sun cover, so the only thing reflected should be the cover itself.

[LeCuvier]

I happened to be in a mission today where the reflections are weak enough so they don't bother me, and some people may just not have been in daylight conditions where it's as bad as in my screenshot above.

But at any rate, as @Art-J stated, there is no way by the laws of optics that there can be reflections of the instruments board on these glass surfaces.

[Art-J]

^ Yeah, they seem to be very much daytime-dependent. Your screen was taken in freeflight mission on Caucasus, wasn't it? They're the worst in these lighting conditions I admit.

[LeCuvier]

43 minutes ago, Art-J said:

 Your screen was taken in freeflight mission on Caucasus, wasn't it?

Correct. Makes the issue very visible, good test case!

[Doughguy]

not sure how dcs does calculate reflections but the if theyre 3d based reflection it would mean that the polygons covering the instrument board only face outwards and there are non on the inside. whilest technically correct it would cause shown odd reflections.

if dcs uses cubemaps for reflections the baked cube map is wrong.

[LeCuvier]

I have found 4 .dds files that had a "modified" date of 23-DEC-2021.
I do not understand these files although I have some experience with Photoshop and have been able a couple of times to reduce opacity of a HUD or so.

But I took a gamble and replaced the 4 files with those from 2.7.7. stable release. And that works for me. There are still plenty of reflections especially in the free flight (Caucasus) mission, but I don't see the instrument board anymore. And in a dog fight mission it's back to what it was.
The screen shot shows the 4 files I replaced.

ED tried to fix what wasn't broken, and made it worse.

[BIGNEWY]

I have made a report for the team to check.

thanks

[LeCuvier]

10 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have made a report for the team to check.

thanks

@BIGNEWY Thanks!

[MAXsenna]

I tried it after your report, and actually like what I see. I might be different than the "normal" user since I don't want to be competitive but looking for total immersion. You won't find any bindings on my hotas that's normally not there, in the Anton the only compromise is the safety cover which I put on the throttle, everything else I operate by hand. Sure, I don't fly WB very often, but these reflections can be found on my favorite and almost exclusive ride, the Tomcat, as well. That said, yes, they are disturbing, but I would expect the same in the real thing and thous welcome stuff like that, even so I lost some dogfights, due to losing sight on the target to reflections, or the need to quickly peek down, to operate something. Oh, by the way, I fly in VR which actually make the reflection look very nice, I love to see them moving with changing lighting conditions. 

In the real world your eyes wouldn't focus on them. Kinda hard on a colored screen.
But I do understand why some like them, so I really wish they were optional, and preferably with an opacity slider.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Slice313]

This reflections made me puke yesterday. I am sorry ED but this is a joke... mine-craft reflections, plus we need less opacity or just give us a slider.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Slice313
wording

[Doughguy]

reflections are costly performancewise.

cant check if theres a slider or so for reflections in the options but usually cranking up the settings does the trick.

at the expense of performance of course.

[LeCuvier]

2 hours ago, Doughguy said:

reflections are costly performancewise.

cant check if theres a slider or so for reflections in the options but usually cranking up the settings does the trick.

at the expense of performance of course.

no, there is no adjustment for reflections.

[scoobie]

Regardless of all technical errors (vs. performance cost), these reflections and "canopy filth" is IMHO wrong for the reason @MAXsenna pointed out above.

In a car you may have some dust on the windscreen and it doesn't make you blind, because when your eyes accomodate into infinity, the dust becomes merely a layer of greyish tint to the picture, it only darkens the picture in your brain a bit (until you get too much of dust/filth and you instinctively reach out for the sprinklers handle).

In a computer game, your eyes are accomodated on the monitor, so you can only have a single, common plane for both reflections/filth and outside-of-cockpit view. Even if you "painted" perfectly true to life reflections, Super-Duper-Raycasting-Technology (TM), it would still be unrealistic because of the way eyes work.
You can't have both, neither in 2D, nor in VR (the machine doesn't know what your eye lens is doing) - perfect reflections when you look at them, and at the same time perfect when you look THROUGH them.
I think the reason why some folks in ED are so keen on filthy canopies (and "severe" reflections) is just this - they have pictures of filthy canopies (what was your camera's focus when you were taking the picture? of course - on the canopy glass itself), then they recreate it as closely as they can and are proud of their work. Rightfully proud, I guess, but the whole premise is kind of wrong.

So, if you can't have both, what can be done? Maybe a more pragmatic approach - pilots (and drivers alike) usually stare THROUGH the canopy/windscreen, not ON them, otherwise most of us would be dead already, run over by cars or killed in cars, a bloody apocalypse. So, if that's the case, why not tone down all the graphics "projected" on canopies so that they look more like when IRL you look into infinity through them?
It's a lesser evil, I think.
Or maybe an experiment - make a picture of a slightly worn out canopy in such a way that your camera is forced to focus in infinity? Then bake it into the canopy in DCS and let's see how it works? Yes, it will be only blurry "something", but maybe the final effect will be nicer in practice, when flying?

Well, I don't know, but I know one thing - the current "philosophy" for reflections and filth in DCS are - granted - good when you want to jump into the cockpit and just sit there, watching how pretty it is, but NOT for flying, when you stare outside, through the canopy, far away where the damned bad guys are. That's especially important when you're looking for targets on the ground, less so when you're at the Bf 109's six (he's close, looks big).

Edited December 31, 2021 by scoobie

[Slice313]

I just tried landing the A-8 a few times, reflections are the real difficulty here. I cannot see anything.

[MAXsenna]

@scoobie Very well written, and some nice ideas!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Nealius]

There have been so many ongoing reflections issues with multiple modules, why do we even have them at all? Just get rid of the reflections entirely, or give an on/off setting somewhere.

[Tuturuu]

I think the best of both world would be a % opacity settings until they are doing true dynamic réflection 

I can't see really well behind me in the Anton even on bright daylight 

[LeCuvier]

Makes me sick to think of the many hours developers spend on creating and tweaking reflections and opacities that cause problems for most people. Plus the hours simmers spend to try and get rid of them? Don't we have real bugs and deficiencies the developers could focus their energy on?

Edited December 31, 2021 by LeCuvier

[LeCuvier]

On a personal note: I'm 76 and the years have taken a toll on my eyesight, glaucoma and a beginning of cataract not helping. I love to fly in this sim, but these artifacts that the developers add with the best intentions make it far more difficult and tiring for my eyes. And I'm certainly not the only person with similar impairments. So please, ED, if you think that younger people need reflections and opacities, please keep in mind that these take the fun out of the sim for a lot of people and give us options to reduce or void them!

I wish the ED team and my fellow simmers a happy, healthy and successful year 2022!

Edited December 31, 2021 by LeCuvier

[Art-J]

10 hours ago, Doughguy said:

reflections are costly performancewise.

cant check if theres a slider or so for reflections in the options but usually cranking up the settings does the trick.

at the expense of performance of course.

In Il-2 series yes. No such option in DCS, however, and reflection layer (although dispalyed sort of semi-dynamically) is just a baked-in texture, so it takes some VRAM anyway no matter how opaque it is.