How do you guys cope with switchguard?

[Red Dog]

DCS chose to enable switch guard with a keystroke.

I personally find this a bad decision as switch guards are mechanic and shouldn't send a keystroke

Being a pitbuilder I have real switch guards in my pit and programmed the switches as any other switches (let's take the SEC/PRI switch for instance)
When I do the sec check, I lift my physical switch guard and activate the switch to SEC.

This work in other sims but not in DCS because the switch guard has to be actioned first either with the mouse or with the relevant keystroke)
That kinda negates the purpose of cockpit building having real switches.
 

I suppose I could add switches to the guards and program them but I find this counter productive and a waste of ressource
Is there any other way to deal with these switch guards mechanic in DCS? 

Thanks for your input

 

[Lt_Jaeger]

I think the only way is to put a switch on the switch guard 

 

https://youtu.be/z8GnZZvqIqM

[Red Dog]

thanks for your answer but as I said:

Quote

I suppose I could add switches to the guards and program them but I find this counter productive and a waste of ressource

 

Considering that many switches are physically locked in the F-16 cockpit, why were the switch guard actions coded this way while the switches lock lever were not? 
Not quite consistent if you ask me.

The Hook switch must be lifted to be moved (as many other) this is a kind of switch guard as well, why are ones implemented and not the others then? 

I hope there's another way to deal with these guards than to add a physical pushbutton to them? 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Red Dog

[RogueSqdn]

The only way I can think of to do it is in software.  Use Joystick Gremlin (which I don't use anymore) to set off a macro when the actual switch is moved.

Set the macro to execute two different vJoy buttons (or keystrokes, your preference) when the switch is each position.  You can then map those vJoy buttons to open the guard then move the switch, and for returning the switch, to move the switch back and after that, close the guard.  You'd have to setup two separate macros for this.

I've done this with my Winwing throttle before.

Edited December 31, 2021 by RogueSqdn

[Red Dog]

Thanks RS

made me think ...

program my pit switch (PRI/SEC) with two macro, delayed. 1 for opening the guard, the other to move the switch

and then program two macro for the other position, one to move the switch and then close the guard. That should work preventing this doesn't get in the way

Thanks

Edited December 31, 2021 by Red Dog

[No1sonuk]

The Flightpanels fork of DCS-BIOS has had "SwitchWithCover2Pos" since November...
e.g. for the Mosquito wing tank jettison button:
DcsBios::SwitchWithCover2Pos jettWTank("JETT_W_TANK", "JETT_W_TANK_CVR", 3);

[streakeagle]

I have numerous ways to deal with switch guards depending on how the mapping options available.

In the later modules, there is usually a way to move the switch guard and the switch at the same time, reducing the need for a separate input for the guard.

I have the WinWing throttle and control panels, which have lots of 3-position switches. These allow me to open the switch guard, operate the switches, and close the switch guard in most cases without any additional scripting.

So, one option you might consider is using a 3-position switch in place of a guarded 2-position switch, then coming up with a mapping that allows you to operate the switch and toggle the guard position.

[Deadman]

So the SEC/PRI switch  looks like a two position switch just switch it out with a three position switch (on) - off or on - on

with the physical switch guard closed the switch will be in the (on) position this can be programed  to the PRI function. 

Open the  physical switch guard the switch will snap in to the center position this will signal  the opening of the  physical switch guard.

Move the Three position switch in to the last on position the signal for the SEC command will be sent. There ya go Hansolo has it working for the KY 58 panel in theA-10

No extra switch necessary the easiest way to work it in my opinion 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Deadman

[RightStuff]

Hi Red Dog,

you might wanna try this solution? It‘s just a LUA-Edit.

 

[RogueSqdn]

I don't have my Winwing throttle installed right now (just flying the Viper), but I'll definitely give the LUA edit a shot!

[bnepethomas]

I'm using an Arduino to drive DCS BIOS - here's the steps I use

1: On switch toggle - send DCS status change of cover

2: Set a flag to activate in 200mS or so

3:Let the Arduino do its many loops

4: After the timer has been met send the DCS command to toggle the switch

[molevitch]

I would love to see the way you have done this in the Arduino Sketch, if you have time, @bnepethomas. I have used a few hallsensors and mags on some of mine, but really it’s a pain!

[bnepethomas]

20 hours ago, molevitch said:

I would love to see the way you have done this in the Arduino Sketch, if you have time, @bnepethomas. I have used a few hallsensors and mags on some of mine, but really it’s a pain!

Here you go 

Left_Console_Input_Controller.ino

[LeCuvier]

@Red Dog: I have made adds to the "default.lua" for several aircraft to combine the guard and the switch into a single binding. For which aircraft do you build your pit?

[Red Dog]

Thanks LeCuvier,

I have noticed you worked on that in the How to setup a toggle switch and I have been inspired by this as well.
It's for the F-16 pit
What i did so far is to program two keystrokes on a single switch to raise the guard before enabling the switch macro. And the same when moving the switch back, the guard closes right after.

But any more elegant solution will get my attention

[LeCuvier]

1 hour ago, Red Dog said:

Thanks LeCuvier,

I have noticed you worked on that in the How to setup a toggle switch and I have been inspired by this as well.
It's for the F-16 pit
What i did so far is to program two keystrokes on a single switch to raise the guard before enabling the switch macro. And the same when moving the switch back, the guard closes right after.

But any more elegant solution will get my attention

Question: Do you use maintained ON/OFF switches?
And can you give me a few examples of switches (names of the switch bindings so I can find them)?

Edited January 4, 2022 by LeCuvier

[Red Dog]

Quote

Question: Do you use maintained ON/OFF switches?

Yes

Quote

And can you give me a few examples of switches (names of the switch bindings so I can find them)?

ENG CONT switch - PRI
ENG CONT switch - SEC

ENG CONT switch Cover - Open
ENG CONT switch Cover - Close

 

others:

EPU switch cover
EPU switch
nice one because you got two separate cover for OFF and ON

and
FUEL MASTER switch + its cover
ZEROIZE swicth cover + its cover

 

[molevitch]

12 hours ago, bnepethomas said:

Here you go 

Left_Console_Input_Controller.ino 35.7 kB · 5 downloads

THANKS! I will take a look.

[LeCuvier]

@Red Dog: I got something working. Please check if that's what you want!
I have added this line to "default.lua":

{down = engine_commands.EngContSwCvr, pressed = engine_commands.EngContSw, up = engine_commands.EngContSwCvr, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_INTERFACE, value_down = 1.0, value_pressed = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('ENG CONT Switch + Cover SEC/PRI'), category = {_('Left Console'), _('ENG & JET START Control Panel')}},

This creates the new command "ENG CONT Switch + Cover SEC/PRI" (you can change the name to whatever you want, as long as it is unique).
I bound this command to a maintained ON/OFF switch (like the EAC switch) on my TM Warthog throttle. When I set the physical switch to ON, the cover opens, immediately followed by the switch flipping down to the "SEC" position. When I set the physical switch to OFF, the cover closes pushing the switch back to the "PRI" position.

The EPU switch is a challenge and I don't know if I'm up to it. Incredebible what kind of gadgets the aircraft designers come up with. One of these switches costs probably more than $ 10,000 because they are specially designed for the F-16 and need to go through alll the certifications. I will look at the two others first and hope for inspiration on the EPU.

The following line of code is for the fuel master switch and cover. It works here:

{down = fuel_commands.FuelMasterSwCvr, pressed = fuel_commands.FuelMasterSw, up = fuel_commands.FuelMasterSwCvr, cockpit_device_id = devices.FUEL_INTERFACE, value_down = 1.0, value_pressed = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('FUEL MASTER Switch + Cover OFF/MASTER'), category = {_('Left Console'), _('Fuel Control Panel')}},

I will look at the Zeroizer tomorrow. For the EPU switch I don't see a comparable solution. There are bindings for a 3-position switch under "Special for Joystick", but you will have to provide inputs for the two guards.

Edited January 4, 2022 by LeCuvier

[LeCuvier]

@Red Dog

Coming back to the EPU switch, you would normally need 4 digital inputs and 4 end switches for the 2 guards. However, we can halve that by combining the respective ON and OFF commands into a single line of code each. I show how to do that, using the cover for ON as an example. The stock "default.lua" has these 2 lines of code: 

{	down = engine_commands.EpuSwCvrOn,			cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_INTERFACE,	value_down =  0.0,	name = _('EPU Switch Cover for ON - CLOSE'),		category = {_('Left Console'), _('EPU Control Panel')}},
{	down = engine_commands.EpuSwCvrOn,			cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_INTERFACE,	value_down =  1.0,	name = _('EPU Switch Cover for ON - OPEN'),			category = {_('Left Console'), _('EPU Control Panel')}},

We create a new line of code that combines the 2:

{down = engine_commands.EpuSwCvrOn,	up = engine_commands.EpuSwCvrOn, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_INTERFACE, value_down =  1.0, value_up =  0.0, name = _('EPU Switch Cover for ON 2-Pos OPEN/CLOSE'), category = {_('Left Console'), _('EPU Control Panel')}},

The "Zeroize" switch is a 3-position switch, and unfortunately ED forgot to provide the 2 lines of code required for a proper 3-position switch which should be under "Special for Joystick". So we create these 2 lines based on the 3 lines that they provide for use with 3 digital inputs:

{down = intercom_commands.ZeroizeSw, up = intercom_commands.ZeroizeSw, cockpit_device_id = devices.INTERCOM, value_down =  1.0,	value_up =  0.0, name = _('ZEROIZE Switch - OFP/OFF'), category = {_('Right Console')}},
{down = intercom_commands.ZeroizeSw, up = intercom_commands.ZeroizeSw, cockpit_device_id = devices.INTERCOM, value_down =  -1.0, value_up =  0.0, name = _('ZEROIZE Switch - DATA/OFF'), category = {_('Right Console')}},

Again, you need to create a line of code so you can use a single switch to control the guard, using the same approach as for the EPU switch guards..

If you need help with this, don't hesitate to get back to me, preferrably via PM.

[Red Dog]

Thank you very much , I'll try over the week end

 

[streakeagle]

The problem with using scripting is that it gets wiped out after every patch. While it is easy to copy/paste the removed/replaced files back, ED and 3rd parties frequently update these control map files, so the only safe way to do it is to perform a file compare and paste in the changes you made from the old file to the new file. I had a lot of aircraft customized to make the Warthog throttle work well. It was a ton of work after every patch. The WinWing throttle and control panels are far more compatible with most aircraft. I only have a few aircraft that still need some scripts to map correctly to physical switches. 

[No1sonuk]

36 minutes ago, streakeagle said:

The problem with using scripting is that it gets wiped out after every patch. While it is easy to copy/paste the removed/replaced files back, ED and 3rd parties frequently update these control map files, so the only safe way to do it is to perform a file compare and paste in the changes you made from the old file to the new file. I had a lot of aircraft customized to make the Warthog throttle work well. It was a ton of work after every patch. The WinWing throttle and control panels are far more compatible with most aircraft. I only have a few aircraft that still need some scripts to map correctly to physical switches. 

IIRC, a friend uses the thrustmaster scripting system to do Warthog bind modifications that don't get wiped by updates (unless the controls change).

[LeCuvier]

8 hours ago, streakeagle said:

The problem with using scripting is that it gets wiped out after every patch. While it is easy to copy/paste the removed/replaced files back, ED and 3rd parties frequently update these control map files, so the only safe way to do it is to perform a file compare and paste in the changes you made from the old file to the new file. I had a lot of aircraft customized to make the Warthog throttle work well. It was a ton of work after every patch. The WinWing throttle and control panels are far more compatible with most aircraft. I only have a few aircraft that still need some scripts to map correctly to physical switches. 

I use OvGME to back up and restore the modified files. That reduces the workload after updates to a minimum. Very rarely it's necessary to do a file compare because new commands have been added. This concerns mostly aircraft in Early Access. I check those every few months or when I know features have been added. With Notepad++ the file compare is very easy and added lines are quickly pasted over. I'm certainly not going to throw my TM WH throttle and VRP stick (with TM WH grip) away and buy Winwing stuff. I have a total of 31 mod items under OvGME, with mostly one .LUA per item, and it's not a burden.

[Viper1970]

That's one of the reasons I like programmable HOTAS with something like TM TARGET or the reason I make inputs in my pit with things like Pokeys or Arcaze modules, where you are able to do keyboard emulations and macros in addition to simple DX-buttons. I know that many guys prefer pure DX-inputs and do think that keyboard emulation or macros are old fashioned, but it gives you much more flexibility to be able to solve functional problems the simulation itself sometimes offers not the best solution. And if you don't need macros you can also use simple DX-functions here.

Joystick Gremlin could be a solution, but it has the drawback that the DX-buttons always exist in parallel to the programmend macro-function. You must install a filter driver to avoid this "double function" which is sometimes not easy to get it running correctly. The TM software has this filter already applied.

But I think that the best solution was the old fashioned way to load the config directly into the hardware, like you could do it with the old Cougar. There was no need running a software in the background, all was stored on an EEPROM inside the HOTAS and different config could be downloaded within a few seconds. The Pokeys cards do still work a little bit like the old Cougar did.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Viper1970