windows 7 no longer supported Mavericks doing no damage to T90

[Nathann6579]

So I have recently gotten started with DCS and been learning the ropes in the Flaming Cliffs A-10A. Was trying out the Caucasus CAS instant action mission when I noticed my mavericks (D models) where doing absolutely nothing to the T90s in the mission. Repeated direct hits and not even partial damage. Attached is a tacview clip of one T90 eating 3 hits for exactly no damage.

 

 

 

I can still damage/destroy T90s with other weapons (CBU 97, gun), and the mavericks work fine against other targets. My AI wingman smoked this same section of tanks in a single pass with 4 mavericks on another play-through of the same mission. I think this has to be a bug with the missiles I am launching. Any ideas on what is wrong/how to fix this?

[Flappie]

I cannot reproduce your issue.

Please provide a short track (click "Save Track" when exiting your mission).

AGM-65D vs T90.trk

[Flappie]

(player) AGM-65D vs T90.trk

[Nathann6579]

Thanks for the reply. Attached are a couple tracks and tacview logs showing multiple hits on T-90's with no effect. The first missile fired works as advertised but then none of the following missiles do any damage.

Tacview-20220104-191212-DCS-A-10A - Caucasus - CASmaverick 6.zip.acmi Tacview-20220104-190549-DCS-A-10A - Caucasus - CAS maverick 5.zip.acmi Maverick 5.trk Maverick 6.trk

[Flappie]

Thank you. When replaying your tracks, I see your missiles passing by their the tanks... do you use any mod?

Anyway, I took control of one of your tracks and was able to shoot two T-90 with 3 missiles (my two first missiles hit the same T-90). They exploded right away. I see no issue on my end.

Maverick Flappie.trk

Edited January 5, 2022 by Flappie

[Nathann6579]

I have not used any mods in DCS.

I am wondering if there is something wrong with my game. When I watched your "Maverick Flappie" track, I see you locking random points in the forest about a kilometer or so in front of the vehicle groups, and the missiles falling short or flying past - which is strangely similar to what you are seeing from my tracks. When I watch my track, my missiles are scoring direct hits. A couple missiles did miss on the Maverick 5 track, but on my end all missiles hit from the Maverick 6 track. I would like to try and post a screen recording of the track playback but it would probably be too big. Anyhow, there definitely is a big discrepancy between what the tracks produce in our respective installs of DCS

I am using DCS version 2.5.6 because I am still on windows 7. Could this be causing problems? I also had a bit of trouble getting the DCS updater to work as it kept freaking out that I could not install the latest version of DCS. Should I try to reinstall the sim?

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

[will-]

Minimum system requirements (LOW graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; 

win7 shouldn't be a issue, but the website it only says win7 in low graphic settings anything higher says win8+

[Nathann6579]

When I ran the updater it said that 2.5.6 was the last version to support windows 7.

ED post here states support for windows 7 has ended with 2.5.6. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2021-01-15/

I am wondering if they changed something in the Flaming Cliffs modules that maybe is not playing nice with my install.

 

 

[Flappie]

4 hours ago, Nathann6579 said:

I am wondering if they changed something in the Flaming Cliffs modules that maybe is not playing nice with my install.

I assume it's the opposite: either the AGM-65D or the T-90 was fixed in DCS 2.7.

You should consider installing Windows 11 to get the latest DCS updates.

[Esac_mirmidon]

You mean W10, isnt you Flappie?

[Flappie]

7 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

You mean W10, isnt you Flappie?

Nope, I meant W11. W11 is W10 latest update. When upgrading from W7, it's better to get up-to-date. And it seems DCS runs well on W11 (haven't tried that yet, I need to backup my PC first).

[Nathann6579]

I certainly plan to upgrade, but right now that won't work. My cpu ( i7-4790k) will not support windows 10/11 and I want to wait to see how the ryzen 6000 cpu's/NVIDIA 4000 series shake out before building my next system (which will be max effort).

Also, If they changed the T-90 or Maverick in 2.7, how might that affect me in 2.5.6? I am not implying that that is impossible, just want to know more so maybe I can find a fix.

Do you think that reinstalling the game would help?

I am going to play around with things (graphics drivers etc.) some more and maybe post some more tracks in a bit if I find something. Let me know if there is anything else you think is worth giving a shot.

 

 

 

 

 

[Flappie]

What I meant was maybe T-90 were immune to AGM-65D in the version of DCS you're using, which would explain why I can kill them and you cannot.

You can try a "slow" DCS repair.

[Nathann6579]

I slow repaired the sim, still having T-90's shrug off direct hits in the instant action mission.

I made a test mission with 6 T-90's and nothing else. 2 straight runs rifling all 6 mavs, first three missiles hit and kill the tanks, second three direct hits for no damage. I have attached the mission, track and Tacview file for one of them. Do all the missiles appear to hit on your end?

I understand that this might be a dead end with me being stuck on the older version and appreciate any help I can get. Thank you for your time.

Tacview-20220106-170426-DCS-Test mission 1.trk.zip.acmi Test mission 1.trk t-90 test.miz

[Nathann6579]

So I did some more testing on other vehicles, and it seems to have something to do with the number of missiles in the air at one time and if the target has ERA.

First I tried firing only three mavericks at a time at the T-90s in my test mission. Killed all 6 tanks several times in a row, with a single hit each. Fire more than 3 Mavericks at once and every missile after the third is a dud, even if missiles 4-6 all hit the same tank.

Then I tried changing the T-90s out for T-55s. All six T-55s killed in a single pass with 6 missiles in the air at one time. Next I tried the T-72B (which has ERA), couldn't kill more than two per pass. But firing only two mavericks at a time produced a 100% kill rate on the T-72Bs. Then I bumped it up to the T-80U (which has no ERA) and got a 100% kill rate with 6 missiles in the air at once. Went and tried the T-72B3, more than 4 missiles in the air at one time produce duds. And limiting the number of missiles fired per pass produced a 100% kill rate on the T-72B3s. Tried several different BMP models with no issue at all.

So, to summarize, if the target has ERA (T-72B, T-72B3, and T-90), there seems to be a limit to how many missiles can be in the air at once for them all to work. If the target does not have ERA (even the heavily armored T-80U), then there is no problem. I think this definitely is a bug as the ERA tanks are taking no damage (verified by checking map view) in the dud maverick hits, but getting killed every time when the number of missiles per salvo is limited. D and H model Mavericks are fire and forget, so the number in a salvo should not matter.

I'm not sure if this gets me closer to a fix, but it sheds some light on the problem. Let me know if you want some track file examples.

Thanks.

 

[BitMaster]

Am 6.1.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Nathann6579:

I certainly plan to upgrade, but right now that won't work. My cpu ( i7-4790k) will not support windows 10/11 and I want to wait to see how the ryzen 6000 cpu's/NVIDIA 4000 series shake out before building my next system (which will be max effort).

.......

 

 

 

 

 

Your CPU does support Win10. It does not support Win11, that's correct.

I run several 4th gen Intel Core-i Series with Win10 Pro 64bit, no issues.

 

[Nathann6579]

From what I have been able to find, there is no official support for windows 10 on 4th gen Intel. I don't doubt that you have been able to get it to to work, I have seen tech forum posts stating the same. The issue is, there have also been cases where the chip set or motherboard doesn't work and I don't want to risk my copy of windows 7 (I have no install disk) and leave my computer inoperable. I also want to keep a copy of Windows 7 running anyway for older legacy software that I have. Thanks anyway for the tip.

[BIGNEWY]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:49 PM, Nathann6579 said:

My cpu ( i7-4790k) will not support windows 10/11

4790k will support windows 10, my son has my older machine with it installed

[QuiGon]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:48 AM, BIGNEWY said:

4790k will support windows 10, my son has my older machine with it installed

I can confirm. I was running a 4790k + Win10 for about 3 years untill I changed my setup 3 weeks ago.

Edited January 13, 2022 by QuiGon

[Nathann6579]

Thanks for the replies on the windows 10 compatibility. As I said above, compatibility was only part of the reason I don't want to upgrade my current PC. I also want to keep my copy of Windows 7 running and don't have the install disk. I also have working copies of 98, 2000 and XP on different older machines that I play around with old games and software on, just a geek hobby I guess.

The thing that I am wondering about is I am not sure that Windows 7 is causing the issue. I think there is a good possibility that it is just a DCS bug with ERA equipped vehicles in the specific edition of DCS that I am on based on my post here.

On 1/7/2022 at 11:16 AM, Nathann6579 said:

So I did some more testing on other vehicles, and it seems to have something to do with the number of missiles in the air at one time and if the target has ERA.

First I tried firing only three mavericks at a time at the T-90s in my test mission. Killed all 6 tanks several times in a row, with a single hit each. Fire more than 3 Mavericks at once and every missile after the third is a dud, even if missiles 4-6 all hit the same tank.

Then I tried changing the T-90s out for T-55s. All six T-55s killed in a single pass with 6 missiles in the air at one time. Next I tried the T-72B (which has ERA), couldn't kill more than two per pass. But firing only two mavericks at a time produced a 100% kill rate on the T-72Bs. Then I bumped it up to the T-80U (which has no ERA) and got a 100% kill rate with 6 missiles in the air at once. Went and tried the T-72B3, more than 4 missiles in the air at one time produce duds. And limiting the number of missiles fired per pass produced a 100% kill rate on the T-72B3s. Tried several different BMP models with no issue at all.

So, to summarize, if the target has ERA (T-72B, T-72B3, and T-90), there seems to be a limit to how many missiles can be in the air at once for them all to work. If the target does not have ERA (even the heavily armored T-80U), then there is no problem. I think this definitely is a bug as the ERA tanks are taking no damage (verified by checking map view) in the dud maverick hits, but getting killed every time when the number of missiles per salvo is limited. D and H model Mavericks are fire and forget, so the number in a salvo should not matter.

I'm not sure if this gets me closer to a fix, but it sheds some light on the problem. Let me know if you want some track file examples.

Thanks.

But I realize that being on the older OS means I have no access to any new patch updates from ED. I would be interested if there is someway to troubleshoot or mod the game to get around this on my end for now until I upgrade.