Jump to content

AH64 Recommended reading.


RonBall28
 Share

Recommended Posts

vor 1 Stunde schrieb WobblyFlops:

I'm not a lawyer or legal expert, the limited things I know about the dangers of ITAR is stuff I have to know for my job and it's mainly to allow us to stay safe. In general, ITAR restricted material cannot be exported or acquired by non US persons or persons without valid certifications. So if you're a US person (citizen or company) you may be able to legally access the manual. Now whether or not anything will actually happen if you download this from the internet regardless is a different question that's probably best not even discussed on this forum. 

Not a US citizen, but someone who wants to stay on the legal site. That's why I am asking for legal ways. If there are none, then I have 2 options: Buy the outdated 238-10 legally from the big web shop starting with an A or wait for EDs manual to be published.

Question is: how much has changed after the 238 version? I guess too much to be worth it. So I have to wait for EDs manual.


Edited by Wychmaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Wychmaster said:

Not a US citizen, but someone who wants to stay on the legal site. That's why I am asking for legal ways. If there are none, then I have 2 options: Buy the outdated 238-10 legally from the big web shop starting with an A or wait for EDs manual to be published.

Question is: how much has changed after the 238 version? I guess too much to be worth it. So I have to wait for EDs manual.

 

If you’re considering alpha to delta, a lot different 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a -10 for the D model available on the internet.  Why is this an issue?  

System: Intel Core i9-9900KF @ 5 Ghz, Z-390 Gaming X, 64Gb DDR4-3200, EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3, Dedicated SSD, HP Reverb G2, Winwing Orion & F-16EX

DCS Modules: A-10C II,  A/V-8B NA, Bf-109 K4, P-51D, P-47D, F/A-18C, F-14 A/B, F-16 CM, F-86F, JF-17, KA-50 Black Shark 2, UH-1H, Mosquito, AH-64D Longbow 

Terrains & Tech:  Caucasus, Persian Gulf, Normandy, Syria, Nevada, The Channel, Combined Arms, WWII Assets, Supercarrier

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

There is a -10 for the D model available on the internet.  Why is this an issue?  


my mistake, sorry.


Edited by Rudel_chw

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Mad Dog 762:

There is a -10 for the D model available on the internet.  Why is this an issue?  

See below

Am 23.1.2022 um 19:52 schrieb WobblyFlops:

  

The vast, vast majority of documentation regarding aircraft, even modern ones that are depicted in DCS isn't classified and never was. Classified manuals can't leave the vault, so in practice they are much more difficult to study from and there is pretty tight regulation around their handling and the entire process costs money. So things that are only classified if the informaton they contain can cause damage to national security. Tactical manuals, exact performance figures and limitations for weapons or sensors, EW stuff.

 

However, just because something isn't classified it doesn't necessarily mean that it's legally available. ITAR is one of the well known issues and it can affect manuals from the 70s or even earlier. There's no FOIA equivalent, it doesn't have to contain actually damaging information and usually it applies to very old manuals as well. The -10 is an export controlled item under ITAR, therefore it's illegal to download or host. And the forum has additional regulations about ITAR restricted items, any information that is only available in one of these documents (and there's no other legally available source) cannot be shared or discussed. Not being classified doesn't even come remotely close to the level of hurdles you have to go through to legally access documentation.

I was asking for a legal source. If there is none, I simply won't get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wychmaster said:

I was asking for a legal source. If there is none, I simply won't get it.

With those considerations in mind, better to wait for ED's manual. Not to mention that we don't know which systems, procedures and features will be implemented in the game and which will be not. If you were using the real manual to study in advance, it's entirely plausible that you'd waste hours upon hours learning about functions or MPD pages that we'll never get.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2022/1/24 PM8点37分,Wychmaster说:

Not a US citizen, but someone who wants to stay on the legal site. That's why I am asking for legal ways. If there are none, then I have 2 options: Buy the outdated 238-10 legally from the big web shop starting with an A or wait for EDs manual to be published.

Question is: how much has changed after the 238 version? I guess too much to be worth it. So I have to wait for EDs manual.

 

even 251-10 is free to download now ;/ 

but it's too complex to read, I guess this module is simple than the manual. it's unnessecary to go through it just for "getting pre-ready"


Edited by Sukhoi1991

AMD 5800X | RTX 3080TI OC Edition | 64GB DDR4 3600 | 2TB nvme

Win10 X64 | TrackIR 5 | WINWING F16 HOTAS ORION | Saitek Combat Pedals

A-10C II | A/V-8B NA | UH-1H | AH-64D Longbow 

Caucasus | Persian Gulf | Syria | Nevada | Combined Arms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2022/1/24 PM5点18分,Wychmaster说:

So is there a legal way to get a copy of it for the Longbow? I mean you can find some download links if you search for it but I would rather stay on the legal site. Some popular web shops sell legal versions for the A but I couldn't find a legal D so far.

YES thereis a legal way to get a copy of it for the Longbow, and it's D


Edited by Sukhoi1991

AMD 5800X | RTX 3080TI OC Edition | 64GB DDR4 3600 | 2TB nvme

Win10 X64 | TrackIR 5 | WINWING F16 HOTAS ORION | Saitek Combat Pedals

A-10C II | A/V-8B NA | UH-1H | AH-64D Longbow 

Caucasus | Persian Gulf | Syria | Nevada | Combined Arms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Sukhoi1991:

YES thereis a legal way to get a copy of it for the Longbow, and it's D , check the link below

I know how to use a search engine, but as NeedzWD40 said, this one is not legal and you should remove it ASAP.

I found one 100% legal site that has a link to the doc. It is 100% legal because it is run by the US officials (.mil). However, if you click on that link, you wont get far. If you read further on that site and get to the distribution section you know why, cause it says:

Zitat

D DOD AND DOD CONTRACTORS ONLY

DOD stands for department of defense. So if the official source says that, you can be sure all internet links you may find are illegal.


Edited by Wychmaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm, i have found a interesting document on the internet. But after reading what you wrote here, i am not entirely sure i can post it. I have checked the document myself, and according to the info it states: Distribution unlimited, but i do have my doubts now. Law and security guidelines can be a pain, but I do not want to do anything wrong. 

Do you think it would be best to ask someone from ED, like NineLine or Bignewy about it before posting? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Mr.Scar said:

Hm, i have found a interesting document on the internet. But after reading what you wrote here, i am not entirely sure i can post it. I have checked the document myself, and according to the info it states: Distribution unlimited, but i do have my doubts now. Law and security guidelines can be a pain, but I do not want to do anything wrong. 

Do you think it would be best to ask someone from ED, like NineLine or Bignewy about it before posting? 

Like with dating, if in doubt pull out 😄 nah sounds like a good idea to check to be sure its alright to post it..

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Spartans - Molon Labe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bedouin said:

Like with dating, if in doubt pull out 😄 nah sounds like a good idea to check to be sure its alright to post it..

Haha, good one. Yeah, i will just send a priv msg to someone from ED. The document i am looking at, screams about unlimited public distribution everywhere, but i do know that documents have a tendency of having some hidden/small written details like: You are only allowed to distribute it in the United States. And then all hell breaks loose... But anyway, thanks. Better safe than sorry.


Edited by Mr.Scar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, i have confirmation that the document is ok, unclassified and for public use. So here it goes. To quote from the main site what this document is about:

"This monograph examines the planning methodology of US Army Corps for employment of the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter in tactical deep operations. It takes an analytical approach to define the deep environment in which the AH-64 must operate. Planning techniques for deep operations tactics are found in a handbook produced at Fort Leavenworth in 1990 and some corps standing operating procedures. These techniques place emphasis on a targeting methodology called D3A decide, detect, deliver, assess. This methodology provides sufficient information for engagement of enemy targets. However, the AH-64 requires information on many areas of the deep battlefield that will provide freedom of movement through or near enemy forces to gain positional advantage for delivery of their fires. This paper will provide a piece of the analysis necessary to reassess the planning methodology and ensure a more thorough technique. The first part of the monograph informs the reader about the theories that have defined tactical deep operations. These theories were developed and well documented in Russia between World War I and World War II. Later, the United States identified their own need to produce deep operations doctrine. Deep operations principles are now an integral part of the overall tactical concepts in US Army doctrine. Parts two through four describe the environmental conditions in which the AH-64 operates during tactical deep operations. These conditions include the AH-64, the command and control structure, and the potential enemy force. The AH-64 possesses certain capabilities and vulnerablities as a combat system. These are described as they relate to the actual equipment design, the average pilot and co-pilotgunner, and the terrain. The unit structure is described along with unit employment in deep operations and unit command and control."

Source: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA339637

Direct link: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA339637.pdf

I think it might be a interesting read about deep operation tactics, where the document takes the AH-64 specifically into account. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi! anyone have info about the Apache use during Op. Just Cause, the invasion of Panama? will really like to know about first combat deployment of the Ah64.

Thanks.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...