Will 2022 remain the 5th year with no VR optimization?

[Flarpt]

2018 was the last real VR update scheduled with its hoped for 50% performance increases. That's 4 years past. 

Not too long ago a few brilliant modders invested a few weekends into the INCREDIBLE VR shader mods. The community response was legendary HERO status and thankful respect. Very well deserved too. Ed, why not try to build upon some of their hard work?

2022 and the chief most talked about VR topics are STILL these last 4 years of stutter-fests, lags, CTD's, VR blindness from blurries, the lingering inability of most sim-investors to even run DCS well in VR on settings above bare minimum. The #1 talked about topic, the #1 complaint 4 years in a row. Obviusly, it doesn't matter how new or awesome an aircraft is if you cannot fly it well in VR like all us VR junkies are still waiting patiently for.

We all remember reading about the roadmap interest in multicore, vulkan and a mention of VR back in 2018-2019. But we are ALL still waiting. Nothing is running any better in VR today than it did from way back then.  I myself am entering my second year not investing further into DCS until my 11gen Pentium/GTX2080 can run DCS in VR properly. Why pour money into payware that will not run well in VR again this year? This is honest and respectful.

The community respects that you have a business to run Ed, and a bottom line to make. Believe it or not, we want ED to be RICH too! But the payware has to be able to run in VR for those of us who years ago left pancake flight behind to be addicted to VR.

Enter 2022 and there remains a VERY vocal dissatisfaction with VR's unfinished and broken backbone that is undeniable and growing impossible to ignore. Censoring us here does not quite the roar in MP, videos, reviews, articles et al.

Ideally, maybe bump some of the all important payware and give us VR paying customers the desire to play, the reason to return in force and to want to continue to invest our money into this wonderful & addictive sim. Ed wants sales, and VR players want to be able to fly without nausea, and on settings high enough to be able to tell a tree from a tank beyond ½ mile out.

The pressure should not be on customers to invest in super computers or to surf more hours than flying for fps tweaks. The problem is not the players or their PC's, the problem is single core constricted code and zero improvments to VR.

ED, you said yourselves in video 3 months ago that VR was the future.
You are 100% right on the money; BUT ONLY if that VR is playable for most people.

You want profits and we want to play and buy more. Only ED can make that happen. We have been patient for 4+ years now. Please reward us this year with results worthy of the long fruitless wait.

My apologies for the orange highlights, cannot figure out how to clean them off??☺

[dburne]

Yeah too hard for me to read all that.

[Flarpt]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Yeah too hard for me to read all that.

 

 

Although I do respectfully sympathize with your struggle, I do wonder if my post about DCS VR optimization was the perfect venue for you come out of the closet about this reading disorder limitation you speak of?

Regardless, admitting you have the problem is the first big step.
There is a big world out there with cereal boxes, instruction booklets and fun articles awaiting you to conquer them. I encourage you to seek the help you need and work your way through your issues.

Just like the sound barrier was broken by brave men, you too will break the 2 sentence barrier limitations I am sure of it, Good Luck friend, you have a community rooting for you now!

[BIGNEWY]

Edited your posts to remove the offensive orange background. 

you are copy pasting your text from somewhere else and it is creating the problem, you need to remove all of the formatting from your pasted text, it can be done at the top using the T symbol top left of the text box. 

---------------------------------------------------

Regarding your post,

The title is misleading and over dramatic, we have made improvements in those " 5 years ", anyone who has been here since the start of the VR implementation knows that. If you have not seen the improvements I would suggest you have not been paying attention. The 50% you speak of worked for some and not others, it was not what we had hoped for. 

Now we are waiting for multicore and vulkan, we posted an update recently in a newsletter with our progress and what was left to do. We will continue in 2022 to complete the tasks and when we are ready we will let you all know. 

If you are not getting at least 45 fps now in VR there is either two problems. 

1. your hardware is not capable of running your headset at the desired frame rate

or

2. your DCS / VR HEADSET settings are to high to achieve the desired frame rate. 

 

45 FPS is your goal currently, if you can reach that your experience will be smooth, if it is not, there is a reason for it somewhere in your setup. 

I run my reverb G2 at 45 - 90 FPS, I have a very strong rig however. 

 

You will need to continue being patient while the work on multicore is completed and keep your fingers crossed for the future. 

 

 

 

[dburne]

42 minutes ago, Flarpt said:

 

 

Although I do respectfully sympathize with your struggle, I do wonder if my post about DCS VR optimization was the perfect venue for you come out of the closet about this reading disorder limitation you speak of?

Regardless, admitting you have the problem is the first big step.
There is a big world out there with cereal boxes, instruction booklets and fun articles awaiting you to conquer them. I encourage you to seek the help you need and work your way through your issues.

Just like the sound barrier was broken by brave men, you too will break the 2 sentence barrier limitations I am sure of it, Good Luck friend, you have a community rooting for you now!

No bud I was referring to trying to read with that crazy orange background.

I thought that might be obvious. And your reply speaks volumes.

Edited January 4, 2022 by dburne

[peachmonkey]

22 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

45 FPS is your goal currently, if you can reach that your experience will be smooth, if it is not, there is a reason for it somewhere in your setup. 

I run my reverb G2 at 45 - 90 FPS, I have a very strong rig however. 

hi, @BIGNEWY

I have seen settings for the G2 that you've posted in VR section, and I appreciated the transparency.

However, they are bare bones. Extremely bare bones. Nobody who plays using the monitor would configure their game to fly like that.  Nobody.

Yet, they are the recommended settings for VR.

I know what I'm about to say is anti-business and laughable in the eyes of the marketing dept, but ED would probably get a lot less grief from the VR community if it were to state that the VR feature is simply "best effort", and the focus is primarily on the Monitor community.

Because reading your rebuttal is extremely discouraging.

 

edit:  I'm already regretting posting this because I love the game and I'm just a dumb VR optimist. But oh well.

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by peachmonkey
edit

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

hi, @BIGNEWY

I have seen settings for the G2 that you've posted in VR section, and I appreciated the transparency.

However, they are bare bones. Extremely bare bones. Nobody who plays using the monitor would configure their game to fly like that.  Nobody.

Yet, they are the recommended settings for VR.

I know what I'm about to say is anti-business and laughable in the eyes of the marketing dept, but ED would probably get a lot less grief from the VR community if it were to state that the VR feature is simply "best effort", and the focus is primarily on the Monitor community.

Because reading your rebuttal is extremely discouraging.

 

 

The settings I posted are for getting maximum frame rate out of DCS with the G2, I actually use much higher settings in DCS for my everyday use. 

My reply is not marketing, its honesty, to many try to run very high settings and expect to get high frame rates, its unrealistic and often unachievable on medium end systems. 

[peachmonkey]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

The settings I posted are for getting maximum frame rate out of DCS with the G2, I actually use much higher settings in DCS for my everyday use. 

My reply is not marketing, its honesty, to many try to run very high settings and expect to get high frame rates, its unrealistic and often unachievable on medium end systems. 

New Year.

Same VR complaints.

I think it's becoming a tradition.

Happy New Year, @BIGNEWY!

[Flarpt]

21 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Edited your posts to remove the offensive orange background. 

you are copy pasting your text from somewhere else and it is creating the problem, you need to remove all of the formatting from your pasted text, it can be done at the top using the T symbol top left of the text box. 

---------------------------------------------------

Regarding your post,

The title is misleading and over dramatic, we have made improvements in those " 5 years ", anyone who has been here since the start of the VR implementation knows that. If you have not seen the improvements I would suggest you have not been paying attention. The 50% you speak of worked for some and not others, it was not what we had hoped for. 

Now we are waiting for multicore and vulkan, we posted an update recently in a newsletter with our progress and what was left to do. We will continue in 2022 to complete the tasks and when we are ready we will let you all know. 

If you are not getting at least 45 fps now in VR there is either two problems. 

1. your hardware is not capable of running your headset at the desired frame rate

or

2. your DCS / VR HEADSET settings are to high to achieve the desired frame rate. 

 

45 FPS is your goal currently, if you can reach that your experience will be smooth, if it is not, there is a reason for it somewhere in your setup. 

I run my reverb G2 at 45 - 90 FPS, I have a very strong rig however. 

 

You will need to continue being patient while the work on multicore is completed and keep your fingers crossed for the future. 

 

 

 

I thank you for the orange background help. That was seriously frustrating!☺

The first response to it spoke volumes, my response was generous and entertaining and there we have a proper thread hijacked once again by emotionalism and projecting.

As to my rig, which has not been the problem for 20 years of Flanker through to DCS as my rigs always exceed the specs from on PC to the next, it is:
11th gen Pentium, 8 core, 32GB memory, 2080GTX on SSD.
The problem is not rigs it is ancient single core restricted code. Took years of forum abuse to establish that, I do not know why.

I appreciate the help but it is not my settings. Lowest of the low at 60hz. Horrible to look upon. 

From Flanker on up this engine has always been overkill for even high systems of their day. None of those cries and pleas for help solved anything back then, and as such the sim entered a new phase more demanding than the last. That is the honest history for 2 decades. That's why I have been so worried these last 5 years of being patient and in the dark.

As far as patient, entering the 5th year now. This time for VR. That is patient. The VERY definition of patient. Supremely patient. As one yearly roadmap after another comes and goes away focused only on payware and snazzy sales videos and trying to complete the standing paywares from years past. That's simple history to those who have been around. I have been for decades now.

The greatest enemy of DCS is the poor performance. Not the lack of aircraft or maps. Not the lack of patience of investing customers. Not the rigs or the settings. That statement holds true for all previous incarnations back to Flanker, as it is the same base code per past revelations on these forums. I don't disbelieve that and see no reason to.

My letter is honest and is the pulse of online DCS VR even as current as today's discussions in matches and as old as DCS VR itself. 
The cure comes only from ED. The hope is this month, this year. If I cannot fly in VR what I already own on such a powerful rig that runs everything else flatout, then there is zero desire to throw more money at problems that refuse to be addressed in a timely manor. 5 years is not a timely manor. Especially while everything was all about new aircraft and addons. I am not emotional, wrong or dramatic for pointing out the obvious. Just facts. No cussing or meanness.

This is not a vent, not just another ragequit by someone burned out on waiting for the right priority to be recognized. If this is taken as insult non was provided, these are the wasy it has always been here. Those ways are broken and costing ED income and growth. Not the customers faults for not waiting enough years in a row. And blame fixes nothing and does not increase sales or VR performance. 

The goal is that we hear about and get to experience some reward for our years of patience waiting while most other ED wants and needs were focused on instead of fixing VR. That is not evil, not mean, not disrespectful and not wrong to post. And I am not asking will this pretty please be the year VR gets fixed please please please. I am expecting it if I am ever to spend another U$D here. So far the answer has been a firm no. Make it yes. Make it YES YES YES! 

 

[BIGNEWY]

I dont agree with all of your comments.

As mentioned please continue to wait for the next step which is multicore and vulkan.

if you want to send me a screenshot of your dcs settings, your dxdiag, and your VR headset settings I maybe able to help you more.

thanks for the feedback. 

[prccowboy]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

The title is misleading and over dramatic, we have made improvements in those " 5 years ",

while I would love to have a better VR experience, I can vouch for the improvements over the years. I remember playing the A-10 standalone (pre DCS World days) and dipping to 3fps whenever my LGB hit a target on what was then a very high-end cutting edge system @1080p. Now, with a 18mo old rig I get over 120fps @4k or 45 fps in VR with all the improvements over the years in the terrain, PBR, clouds, flight models, 3d models, lighting, damage modeling, particle effects, etc. etc. etc.

so, from my perspective, Thank you ED team for the continuous improvements and I look forward to the next steps in optimization and feature development

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, prccowboy said:

while I would love to have a better VR experience, I can vouch for the improvements over the years. I remember playing the A-10 standalone (pre DCS World days) and dipping to 3fps whenever my LGB hit a target on what was then a very high-end cutting edge system @1080p. Now, with a 18mo old rig I get over 120fps @4k or 45 fps in VR with all the improvements over the years in the terrain, PBR, clouds, flight models, 3d models, lighting, damage modeling, particle effects, etc. etc. etc.

so, from my perspective, Thank you ED team for the continuous improvements and I look forward to the next steps in optimization and feature development

Thanks for sticking with us, I think some forget VR came after DCS, having to essentially bolt it on and get it to work is a challenge, we have come a long way and more to come. At the moment I am enjoying using leap motion also for pushing buttons and we have more work to do there, we will be working with leap to make things even better so I am excited for that. 

[Dangerzone]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

If you are not getting at least 45 fps now in VR there is either two problems. 

1. your hardware is not capable of running your headset at the desired frame rate

or

2. your DCS / VR HEADSET settings are to high to achieve the desired frame rate. 

 

Or...

3. The mission that is being ran has too much units / too much scripting.

I just think this is important to mention, as I have seen instances where the highest spec'd systems running on low settings are getting frames down to 30 and below at times - due to being CPU bound, and I'd hate for someone to think that spending money will fix the issue  - if infact gear is not the problem but it's the missions and/or servers they're playing on that get quite heavy at times. 

Thankfully I would expect Vulkan and multi-threading would see improvements there too. 

 

BTW - I think this is a double thread. I replied to a very similar topic yesterday I believe from the same O.P. - and it appears to now be missing?

 

[NineLine]

Dear all, thanks for the feedback.

I appreciate the desire to see improvements in this area, although like BN has stated, with a little tuning, most systems get a decent experience from VR in DCS. Improvements are on going, and will continue to go on, but its a moving goal post as well, if we were to roll back DCS to five years ago, it wouldn't look as good, but probably perform better. It will always be something we are working to improve and make better.

Thanks for your passion and dedication, please if you have specific bugs, report them with tracks and information in the appropriate location, but the answer to this thread is, we have been, we are and we will continue to improve DCS, we plan to be around for a long time, and plan to make DCS better tomorrow than it is today.