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AA TACAN not working, any plane.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes I know that something similar was already reported:

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/289644-tacan-not-working-in-aa-mode/#comment-4854403

But I just wanted to add that this is not JUST a problem of the F-18, but also with other planes, at least with the A-10II.

This was working perfectly for years now,  I have noticed this after the Stable update Posted December 30, 2021, DCS 2.7.9.18080.

Please advise.

A-10-no-AA-Tacan-01.jpg

A-10-no-AA-Tacan-02.jpg

F-18-no-AA-Tacan.jpg

A-10-II-Refuel.miz F-18-Refuel.miz

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  • ED Team

Hi, 

the team are discussing it internally, but for now taking it out of AA TCN and using T/R you should get better results. 

Once I have a full picture of what is happening I will let you know or it will be in the change logs. 

 

I will move this report to general bugs as it is not hornet specific. 

thanks

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54 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

the team are discussing it internally, but for now taking it out of AA TCN and using T/R you should get better results. 

Once I have a full picture of what is happening I will let you know or it will be in the change logs. 

 

I will move this report to general bugs as it is not hornet specific. 

thanks

Hi, many thanks. 

As you can see in the pictures, I was using T/R already. I have accomplished dozens of similar flights in the past,

always setting the Tanker in the ME and the plane in the mission in the same manner.

The problem arose only after the after the Stable update DCS 2.7.9.18080.

BTW, I forgot something: Supercarrier, and land Tacan stations work perfectly OK, with both Planes. 

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  • ED Team

yes we are aware. 

But try without AA TCN let me know if it helps

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Yes, deselecting AA TCN

(as one would do for a ground station or the supercarrier) works.

Though it is not supposed to work that way, right?

 

 

F-18-AA-Tacan-deselected-OK.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have tested TACAN in the F-5E, C-101EB and F-18C in NEVADA and SIRIA and does not work fine. I dont have any file to show but hope you solve this ASAP

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17 hours ago, Psicodreamics said:

I have tested TACAN in the F-5E, C-101EB and F-18C in NEVADA and SIRIA and does not work fine. I dont have any file to show but hope you solve this ASAP

Deselecting AA TCN, (Only T/R), as one would do for a ground station or the supercarrier, works.

Though it is not supposed to work that way, for AA units AA-REC or AA-T/R has to be selected, as

it was the correctly the case before the bug which was introduced with the Stable update DCS 2.7.9.18080.

Mainboard: ASUS Maximus X Hero Intel Z 370

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CH Pro combatstick, throttle and pedals

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  • ED Team
31 minutes ago, 8KIDD8 said:

Still broken A/A Tacan, Can we get the Fix soon or date for the fix???

it is more complicated than first thought sorry, the team need more time to research the AA TCN behaviour 

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13 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

it is more complicated than first thought sorry, the team need more time to research the AA TCN behaviour 

Great to hear, that the team is on it and is even seeking additional information for realistic TCN modelling :thumbup:

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Still don't understand why something that had worked properly since literally ages,

and several DCS versions, now suddenly is broken, and in the stable DCS version

But hey, I am no programmer.....

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I am on Stable version, so I can't comment, but indeed, it is very difficult to grasp.....

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  • ED Team
On 1/28/2022 at 2:56 PM, ac5 said:

Still don't understand why something that had worked properly since literally ages,

and several DCS versions, now suddenly is broken, and in the stable DCS version

But hey, I am no programmer.....

stable version will still have bugs, it is essentially the open beta version that has been pushed to stable. Its called stable version as it is less likely to contain show stopping crashes as we use open beta to find the major issues first.

thanks

 

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47 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

stable version will still have bugs, it is essentially the open beta version that has been pushed to stable. Its called stable version as it is less likely to contain show stopping crashes as we use open beta to find the major issues first.

thanks

 

Yes but why you push this tacan bug on stable version ? this bug was here on closed and open bêta before…..

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16 hours ago, hanab said:

Yes but why you push this tacan bug on stable version ? this bug was here on closed and open bêta before…..

Good question.

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  • ED Team

Sorry that you did not understand my previous reply. 

The TCN issue is not a show stopper, it does not stop you from using DCS.

Updates are for the whole of DCS, we do not remove individual bugs from stable, they get fixed and patched.

The TCN issue is being worked on when there is a fix it will get pushed through our versions to the stable version. 
 

Hanab if you are going to be sarcastic please move on

 

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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Hanab if you are going to be sarcastic please move on

 

I am not sarcastic but realistic.  
 

You always said that if players wanted to enjoy the best version of the game with fewer bugs, they should play on the stable version.  It was therefore forbidden to complain if players played on the beta because it was normal to have issues on it.  But now the stable is as much or even more buggy than the beta…. 

I love this game but I'm not a fanboy, I prefer to say the things that bother me than to constantly say « shut up and take my money ».  I am therefore critical to make you give my feelings but in fact you have nothing to do with it.

Might as well close this official forum and it's useless to have a contrary opinion. 

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  • ED Team
8 minutes ago, hanab said:

I am not sarcastic but realistic.  
 

You always said that if players wanted to enjoy the best version of the game with fewer bugs, they should play on the stable version.  It was therefore forbidden to complain if players played on the beta because it was normal to have issues on it.  But now the stable is as much or even more buggy than the beta…. 

I love this game but I'm not a fanboy, I prefer to say the things that bother me than to constantly say « shut up and take my money ».  I am therefore critical to make you give my feelings but in fact you have nothing to do with it.

Might as well close this official forum and it's useless to have a contrary opinion. 

If you are going to turn every report being made here into some argument its not helpful, your sly remarks dont go unnoticed, you have given your feedback and I have replied. 

Regarding this particular bug with the AA TACAN I have spoken with the dev and it seems some changes made did not account correctly for older missions, he will add some regression checks that should help. 

thanks

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This has nothing to do with older missions.

I have just created one from scratch, included.

And also have a look at the screenshots....

TACAN-AA-NO.jpg

TACAN-AA-OK-BUT-WRONG.jpg

Test-TACAN-AA.miz

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On 1/27/2022 at 2:53 PM, BIGNEWY said:

it is more complicated than first thought sorry, the team need more time to research the AA TCN behaviour 

In support of TACAN behavior research, here is my understanding (reference MIL-STD-291C):

Signal from airplane (interrogate)

  • All pulse pairs are 12 µs spaced within the pair, further spacing details refer to the interval between these pairs
  • X mode: Pulse-pair sequence with 12 µs separation
  • Y mode: Pulse-pair sequence with 36 µs separation
  • A/A mode: Pulse-single sequence with 12 µs X and 24 µs Y.

Signal from ground/tanker (reply)

  • Reply frequency -63MHz (X low band), +63MHz (X high band), +63MHz (Y low band), -63MHz (Y high band)
  • A/A mode receives at +63MHz (X/Y low band) and -63MHz (X/Y high band)
  • X mode: Pulse-pair sequence with 12 µs separation, distance reply delay of 50 µs
  • Y mode: Pulse-pair sequence with 30 µs separation, distance reply delay of 74 µs
  • A/A mode: Pulse-single sequence with 24 µs separation, distance reply delay of 62 µs X or 74 µs Y.

Bearing signal

  • Consist of a double modulated series of reply/pseudo-reply responses double modulated (directional sweeping 15 rotations per second) as a 15Hz and 135Hz wave compared against a MRB and ARB set of omnidirectional reference bursts for azimuth information.
  • MRB consists of 12 pulse pairs at 30 µs internal for X and 13 single pulses for Y all occurring at 15Hz centered on the "east" bearing
  • ARB consists of 6 pulse pairs at 24 µs (basically 24 pulses equally spaced at 12 µs) for X and 13 single pulses spaced at 15 µs all occurring at 135Hz centered on the auxiliary peaks except when they would overlap with the MRB signal.
  • Noise, distance reply, and identification can't occur during MRB/ARB events
  • Identity is broadcast every 37.5s +-10% with some equalizing pulses to avoid any bearing error.

Long-long-long story short X, Y, X AA, Y AA all have enough differences between them that it's guaranteed that DME will fail cross-mode. The single/double pulse pairing, frequency allocations, and pulse interval are distinct. It looks like bearing info should similarly fail unless the receiver is in the appropriate mode to decode the signal single/double and pulse interval being different.

From what I can discern from the document an AG 1X configured airplane won't see anything on channel 1 except an AG X configured host and the same for Y, X A/A, Y A/A and all the combinations which are mismatched. Famously same-mode but mirrored channel operation should work, the common "yardstick" DME between airplanes.

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On 1/28/2022 at 3:56 PM, ac5 said:

Still don't understand why something that had worked properly since literally ages,

and several DCS versions, now suddenly is broken, and in the stable DCS version

But hey, I am no programmer.....

If it's any consolation, I wouldn't quite say that it has worked properly for ages — AA TACAN has consistently been a contradictory and confusing mess with ever-changing answers as to how to make it work, how it does work, and how it should work in relation to various other aircraft. 😛

TACAN has been reasonably stable overall; AA TACAN has been apparently broken, explained away, suddenly fixed supposedly without being broken, (re)broken(?) and possibly fixed (or just explained away again) on a number of occasions. This is just a new(?) chapter in that back-and-forth story.

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