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Reverb G2 - Freezes after a few minutes


TheHighwayman

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Reverb G2

Nvidia 1080ti

 

DCS once ran great in VR, but I had issues with VR in FS2020 (repeated CTD) and I concluded it was time for reset. I wiped everything except my files, and reinstalled everything. From there, DCS and IL2 quit working properly. Both work from the desktop, but in VR they crash after a few minutes of gameplay. Incidentally, FS2020 works better than before. 

I had other issues as well, but I managed to resolve most of them by repeatedly uninstalling and reinstalling Steam VR and WMR (Windows Mixed Reality). Things are working fine now, except I get a game freeze in both titles after about 3 minutes of play or so. 

Any ideas? 

Thank you!

 

 


Edited by TheHighwayman
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  • ED Team

Please attach your crash zip file from your saved games dcs log folder it will give us some clues. 

thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

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On 1/15/2022 at 1:55 PM, despinoza said:

have you tried disable the selective USB suspend?

Thanks for the tip. 

I launched the game, flew for a few minutes, then hit escape to test my ability to edit settings in the menu. I was able to do so without instantly freezing, although I got as series of shimmering, vertical lines in the headset. This typically happens when the game is just about to crash. To my surprise, it did not crash for a couple more minutes, allowing me to configure a few more settings and save them. Then, if crashed. 

In short, I got marginally better results, then it crashed as always. I cannot say if disabling the selective USB contributed to the extra minute of stability, but I am skeptical. Thank you for sharing the tip however! It may come in handy in the future. 

Crash file attached. 
 

dcs.20220116-222620.crash

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My experience (and temporary fix) goes as follows:

- The screen within the G2 flashes blue or switches to solid blue.

- After a few moments, the game crashes and Windows shows a BSOD, usually a FATAL_DXGKRNL_ERROR and the Windows instance resets.

- After reboot, which Windows performs normally and never runs autorepair or other shenanigans on its own, I have to run

1. cmd.exe as Administrator

2. cd into the "DCS World OpenBeta" folder

3. cd into the "bin" subfolder

4. DCS_updater.exe repair (watch a nice DCS instruction video while waiting ~ 20 minutes)

5. sfc /scannow (in order to repair the corrupted filesystem)


One more thing I'd like to mention for clarification. I'm running Windows as a virtual machine on top of the ZFS filesystem, which is leaps and bounds ahead of the NTFS filesystem. Funny enough, the written junk blocks from the NTFS are coming from the Windows kernel. The Windows kernel corrupts the FS and it's not a matter of dirty cache or other known phenomena. That's why it corrupts DCS files as well as Windows system files (found corrupted DLLs).


After running the lengthy FS repair, DCS works without any issues, except occasional and annoying blue flickers or stutters, but nothing catastrophic.

 


Edited by Pocket Kings
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/16/2022 at 11:34 PM, TheHighwayman said:

Thanks for the tip. 

I was able to do so without instantly freezing, although I got as series of shimmering, vertical lines in the headset. This typically happens when the game is just about to crash.
 

This sounds exactly like the problem I had. After the lines came, soon the HMD would go black. Problem was the cable. Got a new "V2 cable" from HP and all those issues were resolved.


Edited by chrisofsweden

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/15/2022 at 9:45 AM, chrisofsweden said:

This sounds exactly like the problem I had. After the lines came, soon the HMD would go black. Problem was the cable. Got a new "V2 cable" from HP and all those issues were resolved.

 

I got the replacement cable yesterday and guess what, didn't fix sh*****. Swapped the additional USB card out... nope. Great, back to square one. Only comfort I feel: I'm now able to buy a 2nd hand Reverb from a dude that's selling his 'as defective' on ebay cuz he rolled over the cable.

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6 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

I got the replacement cable yesterday and guess what, didn't fix sh*****. Swapped the additional USB card out... nope. Great, back to square one. Only comfort I feel: I'm now able to buy a 2nd hand Reverb from a dude that's selling his 'as defective' on ebay cuz he rolled over the cable.

Sorry to hear that. Understandably frustrating. Your issues were indicating something else though imho. BSOD these days usually indicate some kind if hardware error, as Windows is so stable and can handle most software crashes including driver crashes. The error you were describing in your post above " FATAL_DXGKRNL_ERROR" sounds to me like "Fatal DirectX Kernel Error" where I'd be inclined to suspect the graphics card or a dependency to it. It might be driver error, but those doesn't always end with a BSOD/Reboot.

Firstly to rule out the Reverb actually being faulty, I'd hook it up to another capable computer and test running DCS with it. If there's no issues then it's not the Reverb that's faulty.

Then I'd start with testing different driver versions. If no luck, my top picks to investigate would be (if able):

1. Remove (if any) applied OC to the graphics card.
2. Reinstall Windows with a clean install.

3. Test with another knowingly sufficient power supply unit.
4. Test with another graphics card

If none of those tests alleviate the crashes, it might be a faulty RAM stick(s), CPU or motherboard.

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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5 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

Firstly to rule out the Reverb actually being faulty, I'd hook it up to another capable computer and test running DCS with it. If there's no issues then it's not the Reverb that's faulty.

Then I'd start with testing different driver versions. If no luck, my top picks to investigate would be (if able):

1. Remove (if any) applied OC to the graphics card.
2. Reinstall Windows with a clean install.

3. Test with another knowingly sufficient power supply unit.
4. Test with another graphics card

If none of those tests alleviate the crashes, it might be a faulty RAM stick(s), CPU or motherboard.

Hello Chris,

thank you for your effort, I really appreciate your methodical tips. These days, most people are just spitting out one liners and call it help. Reading your comment is a lovely surprise.

First of all, I work in IT with servers & HPC all day. Which is a blessing and a curse. Blessing because I know I can help myself 99% of times, a curse cuz I know once I hit the remaining 1%, it's getting ugly, lenghty, tedious.

It's not just the DirectX Kernel Error, I've also seen VIDEO SCHEDULER ERROR and random others, if I'm fast enough to put down the headset in time before the reboot.

1. [ x ] Driver versions, tested once year old version up until latest, Full Install, Driver only an so on

2. [ x ] OC, my card runs fine 3DMark for hours OC'ed to max (lucky in the silicon lottery). But, BSODs happen also @ stock speeds.

3. [ x ] PSU 1200W & 800W, both single phase

4. [ x ] I just have a GTX 1060 besides the Radeon 6700 XT unfortunately. However, I can play 10 hrs straight with TrackIR. Funny enough, rarely but it happens, I can fly 10 hrs in VR without an issue, like last Saturday.

5. [ x ] RAM CPU & MoBo: 14h Memtest (new and old versions), 4h mprime @ stock & OC'ed CPU, Motherboard different BIOS versions, tons 'n tons of BIOS trials & error runs, tons of videos seen (recommending buildzoids youtube channel).

One more addition to the described symptoms: Approximately one second before the BSOD appears, I can year a device disconnect sound as if you were to pull out an USB device. Because of that, I already bought a new USB3 card and tried with it... no bueno.

To make a long story short: If you have any other ideas, and they actually improve my situation, I'd jump out of the window in sheer joy 😉

I told my girlfriend that I regret having bought the first "consumer crapware" gaming rig in 10 years. Working with servers all day, I'm used to a different kind of quality control, be it hardware or software (BIOS / UEFI) support.

Thank you again!


Edited by Pocket Kings
typo
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Hey no worries, mate. I work in IT too so I know how it goes. It gets tedious as hell when ruling out the most simple and obvious things...

But so to be clear, you seem to have a stable system. But I'm unclear what you're saying exactly about the graphics card. Have you tested it with the 1060, to rule out the 6700XT?
If not, I'm thinking there still might be some issue with the 6700XT, since it's only crashing when in VR, I'm thinking maybe it's a problem with the output to the VR set in combination with a performance hungry application as DCS?

Tried different displayports for the VR set? Tried different USB or USB-C ports for the VR set?

I'm also remembering there being a problem with a certain AMD motherboard chipset in combination with VR, it's not that?


Edited by chrisofsweden

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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2 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

But so to be clear, you seem to have a stable system. But I'm unclear what you're saying exactly about the graphics card. Have you tested it with the 1060, to rule out the 6700XT?

Rock stable (unfortunately). It would be so easy if I had crashes elsewhere, I'd be light years ahead in terms of possible solutions. The system runs as a server during non-gaming times (most of the week) doing network simulations and virtualization and performs superbly, really workhorses these Ryzens and lots of cheap RAM.

I have played on that system with the 1060 only in TrackIR for a few months (rock stable) until I received the 6700 XT for a reasonable price. I mean I could try the 1060, on the other hand not a good idea, since the architecture and drivers are different, so 3 variables changed instead of one. But at least it would rule out the the headset.

 

2 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

If not, I'm thinking there still might be some issue with the 6700XT, since it's only crashing when in VR, I'm thinking maybe it's a problem with the output to the VR set in combination with a performance hungry application as DCS?

Completely clean Windows install, nothing on it, not even discord. And stripped down service-wise, meaning no BS running in the background.

 

2 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

Tried different displayports for the VR set? Tried different USB or USB-C ports for the VR set?

I'm also remembering there being a problem with a certain AMD motherboard chipset in combination with VR, it's not that?

Yes, the well known X570 chipset problem, which AMD hasn't mitigated in over a year! That's why I call this "consumer crap", and colleagues too. It's usually the support side of things, not the engineering. Which leads me to...

Of course, I tried different USB Ports, have tried two internal USB addon cards, one with a VIA chipset, the other some random chinese chip. And I as well tested different displayports. The new HP Revberb G2 Cable "Version 2" now allows me to use the onboard USB-C Connection and I really thought that'd be the culprit. Hell, the HP Customer Service Agent was so nice and helpful, we talked half an hour, that he sent me the replacement cable via UPS Priority, came within less than 24h. I guess he really felt my pain.


Edited by Pocket Kings
typo
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Yeah I figured you already had tested my suggestions. At this time I’m sad to say I’ve got no other obvious suggestions.  😕

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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Thank you for your effort helping a random dude like you do isn't the norm!

I'm at a point where I was often in my life: Telling the boss or customer (usually the boss too), that it would be not economical to go down the rabbit hole any further and, drums please... I suggest to attack the problem with... MONEY.

Meaning replacing both the Reverb and the 6700XT, which after upgrading to the only viable AMD card, a 6900XT, would both set me back 1500 €. I'm currently in the process of building a JF-17 cockpit. Let me tell you, I don't even think I will pay 1500 € for the initial, usable part of the cockpit. 3 MFCDs, upfront UFCP, gear lever panel, in short the upfront stuff.


Edited by Pocket Kings
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Alright,

it seems that RAM timings, which are 100% stable under Linux, apparently are not under Windows. Don't ask me why. Yes, I know the kernel architecture and mitigation techniques in Linux are lightyears ahead of those of Windows. It seems Windows is prone to produce illegal exceptions that causes these BSODs. BTW, sometimes I don't even receive a BSOD, but an instant reset, as if I were to press the physical button. Found this out rather by accident cause I wanted to go to the bathroom, put down the Reverb G2 and then the crash happened.

As I said, fiddling with the RAM timings in BIOS allowed me, so far, to lower at least the frequency of BSODs occurring. For the sake of other poor fellas I'll report back in any case (good or bad).

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Good to hear you’re making some (however small) progress. Yes keep reporting your findings, it might eventually end up helping someone else! 👍

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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Just a quick follow up:

I managed to get DCS stable to a point where it didn't crash or produce BSOD's for a few days now due to adjusting (loosening) the RAM timings. However, I had a problem with the cable, supposedly. The Reverb G2 HMD would randomly go black, which is a known phenomenon of cable revision 1, which was prone to produce this behavior. But, I possess the revision 2 cable now. It seems the connection is very finnicky and the cable should not hang left of the body below the sitting height of the player, e.g., the height of your head above ground. While moving the head, the connection would eventually desync. It then loses the image on both lenses, but not the sound or head tracking. The only solution to get back an image is to shut down Windows Mixed Reality, SteamVR, DCS, essentially back to a blank Windows desktop. To me, that's odd, but as with all proprietary technology, we can only use it and everything else is speculation as to how these things function.

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