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Nuclear, Biological and Chemical threats


BaD CrC

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The use of those type of weapons are sadly a reality as we have seen recently in Syria.

As DCS choppers are getting some love from ED, adding this dimension to the battlefield would be totally amazing now we have NBC capable choppers like the Mi24 and the AH64. Not by necessarily adding new loadouts but by allowing us to add, from the mission editor, N/B/C areas that would incapacitate or kill the crew of aircraft or vehicles flying/driving inside them if their vehicle/aircraft is not NBC compliant.

The implications could be game changing. Imagine areas that would incapacitate pilots flying Hueys or Mi8, that would require to call some Mi 24 for support? Ground convoys where trucks and light vehicles suddenly stopping while keeping BMPs running? New reconnaissance tasks for choppers to size the areas and report them to the AMC?

I could think of a simple implementation where non NBC capable vehicles/aircraft will start to have pilot/driver damage set when entering a designated area. What about having this on NBC choppers when pilots forgot to enable the pressurization or have a pressurization failure? This could also apply to the A10 by the way since it is the only aircraft sharing airspace with choppers.

Then, in the future, as ED is working on dynamic weather, we could dream of having those BC areas drifting away with the set wind? What about linking the amount of pilot damage per unit of time to the level of NBC threat attached to a given area: N areas could be set with a user defined level of radioactivity, C and B areas to a type of agent?


Edited by BaD CrC
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+1

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5 hours ago, BaD CrC said:

The use of those type of weapons are sadly a reality as we have seen recently in Syria.

As DCS choppers are getting some love from ED, adding this dimension to the battlefield would be totally amazing now we have NBC capable choppers like the Mi24 and the AH64. Not by necessarily adding new loadouts but by allowing us to add, from the mission editor, N/B/C areas that would incapacitate or kill the crew of aircraft or vehicles flying/driving inside them if their vehicle/aircraft is not NBC compliant.

The implications could be game changing. Imagine areas that would incapacitate pilots flying Hueys or Mi8, that would require to call some Mi 24 for support? Ground convoys where trucks and light vehicles suddenly stopping while keeping BMPs running? New reconnaissance tasks for choppers to size the areas and report them to the AMC?

I could think of a simple implementation where non NBC capable vehicles/aircraft will start to have pilot/driver damage set when entering a designated area. What about having this on NBC choppers when pilots forgot to enable the pressurization or have a pressurization failure? This could also apply to the A10 by the way since it is the only aircraft sharing airspace with choppers.

Then, in the future, as ED is working on dynamic weather, we could dream of having those BC areas drifting away with the set wind? What about linking the amount of pilot damage per unit of time to the level of NBC threat attached to a given area: N areas could be set with a user defined level of radioactivity, C and B areas to a type of agent?

 

Oh yes, Syria... as confirmed by humptydumpty on cnn.  Hey, I'm ready to lead a massive attack on all 'gain of function' labs... anywhere, anytime:gun_smilie:

Anyways, totally new level of ops. 

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Little correction: It's not Bacterial, it's "Biological", because viruses can be used as weapons as well as bacterium.

That being said, NBC weapons and conditions would be an interesting thing to see, so long as ED can figure out how to make them *not* turn servers into nuclear devices, and our computers into easy-bake ovens. However, I can also understand why such weapons are not in DCS beyond that: They're very touchy subjects to some, and frankly, can be easily mistreated by players.

However, if someone wants the weapons without the consequences, I'd suggest having the 'pieces' as static objects that can be placed on the map. This way we can build entire missions around their disposal or capture.

An example would be a stockpile is located by a ground team on Saipan, and the weapons need to be disposed of safely and quickly. The only option available is to hoist the canister/crate and take if over the trench and drop it. The extreme depths and pressures will render the agent inside completely harmless, and inaccessible to those wishing to capture and deploy it.

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6 hours ago, BaD CrC said:

The use of those type of weapons are sadly a reality as we have seen recently in Syria.

As DCS choppers are getting some love from ED, adding this dimension to the battlefield would be totally amazing now we have NBC capable choppers like the Mi24 and the AH64. Not by necessarily adding new loadouts but by allowing us to add, from the mission editor, N/B/C areas that would incapacitate or kill the crew of aircraft or vehicles flying/driving inside them if their vehicle/aircraft is not NBC compliant.

The implications could be game changing. Imagine areas that would incapacitate pilots flying Hueys or Mi8, that would require to call some Mi 24 for support? Ground convoys where trucks and light vehicles suddenly stopping while keeping BMPs running? New reconnaissance tasks for choppers to size the areas and report them to the AMC?

I could think of a simple implementation where non NBC capable vehicles/aircraft will start to have pilot/driver damage set when entering a designated area. What about having this on NBC choppers when pilots forgot to enable the pressurization or have a pressurization failure? This could also apply to the A10 by the way since it is the only aircraft sharing airspace with choppers.

Then, in the future, as ED is working on dynamic weather, we could dream of having those BC areas drifting away with the set wind? What about linking the amount of pilot damage per unit of time to the level of NBC threat attached to a given area: N areas could be set with a user defined level of radioactivity, C and B areas to a type of agent?

 

Hi BaD CrC, 

Interesting idea, but currently we have no plans for NBC warfare in DCS. 

thanks

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  • BaD CrC changed the title to Nuclear, Biological and Chemical threats
10 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said:

Right now, the Mig-21BIS is the closest thing we are going to get for a NBC weapon.  The plane can drop two free-fall gravity nuke bombs.  Unfortunately, we do not see the mushroom cloud.  Instead, there is a brown spot that shows where the explosion occurred.

The Mig-21Bis has only a big bomb, has none related about a nuclear or radiation explosions on the DCS Core. Heatblur/M3 only use a bomb design as a Kiloton/Megaton scale very big High Explosive warhead.

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Just an idea that might be of interest, instead of simulating the weapons how about simulating NBC protective gear and procedure?  The aircrew ensemble would restrict peripheral vision, sort of like NVG's, except that there would be clear plastic to look through and rubber gasket around the sides.  Procedure wise it would be decontaminate the jet before taxiing back to the ramp.  Use of the body condom to exit the jet would be a bit much, but that's how crews do it in real life.  This would be in line with the real world if the blue jets struck a bunker/plant/lab that was thought to have chemical or biological weapons these are the things the crew would do just to be safe.

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Can’t see the point of CBRN in DCS…

 

…there’s no denying that our collective sim interest is in a macabre, utterly grim area of RL - but adding a CBRN element oversteps the mark for acceptability / non-acceptability.
Use of these weapons is unacceptable - no debate. Therefore I don’t see any place in DCS

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3 hours ago, rkk01 said:

…there’s no denying that our collective sim interest is in a macabre, utterly grim area of RL - but adding a CBRN element oversteps the mark for acceptability / non-acceptability.
Use of these weapons is unacceptable - no debate. Therefore I don’t see any place in DCS

No matter how seriously we might view it, combat simulations are our little fantasy worlds and casting judgements on how we go around blowing stuff up is a route to insanity. It is an opportunity to fly cool stuff and play fantasy war games without needing to question each actions relevance in RL, just as people run around shooting people in FPS games.

The stuff we have to play with now is deadly in RL and used for questionable actions in terms of acceptability (as we saw today in Yemen) which form part of a debate that is way out of scope for DCS, which is providing entertainment for people that like military stuff irrespective of any beliefs about war time actions.

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4 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Can’t see the point of CBRN in DCS…

 

…there’s no denying that our collective sim interest is in a macabre, utterly grim area of RL - but adding a CBRN element oversteps the mark for acceptability / non-acceptability.
Use of these weapons is unacceptable - no debate. Therefore I don’t see any place in DCS

Yes debate! Yes for free speech and freedom of expression. 

What is right or not in a virtual simulation is your subjective view point, don't make it out as being something absolute and objective. You ain't fooling me into believing I've got no right to want NBC weapons in what is a video game because your personal ideals dictate otherwise. 


Edited by notproplayer3
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Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

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4 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Can’t see the point of CBRN in DCS…

 

…there’s no denying that our collective sim interest is in a macabre, utterly grim area of RL - but adding a CBRN element oversteps the mark for acceptability / non-acceptability.
Use of these weapons is unacceptable - no debate. Therefore I don’t see any place in DCS

More to the point, what would they do in DCS?

Cause mass casualties among a population that doesn't even exist in the game? Ok… “Civilian traffic: none”, done.

Have the player deliver a clunky canister of something? Ok… [Select CBU-87][Copy-Paste][Replace texture], done.

So… what would be the actual meaningful addition?

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9 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Can’t see the point of CBRN in DCS…

 

…there’s no denying that our collective sim interest is in a macabre, utterly grim area of RL - but adding a CBRN element oversteps the mark for acceptability / non-acceptability.
Use of these weapons is unacceptable - no debate. Therefore I don’t see any place in DCS

BN already said there are no plans to add NBC weapons.  What others and I suggested with that in mind is to simulate the restrictions of the wearing the MOPP gear instead of the weapons.  Nothing macabre about that, at least nothing more than simulating killing people with normal conventional weapons.

A lot of time in real life blue forces wear/carry MOPP gear "just in case" or because they're hitting the bad guys cache of that stuff.  Furthermore, if in the future we get any Cold War Germany/Europe maps, then MOPP gear is an absolute must.  Even though the Geneva and Hague conventions banded chemical weapons before WWII, both Warpac and NATO had massive stockpiles.  Not to mention, each was certain the other would use their stockpile, so everyone practiced fighting in MOPP4.

Finally, the MOPP gear is a royal pain in the ass to wear, much less function at a high level and don't even remind me about summer exercises with 100+ temperatures...  That's why some folks think simulating the MOPP gear would add some more realism to the sim.

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The idea was not to start adding NBC weapons, I think we already have a nice enough collection of conventional ones to do the job, but to be able to simulate an NBC environment in the mission editor in a simple way. Terrorist attack over LV on NTTR forcing helicopter evacuation of civilians or troops transport to a contaminated area. Syrian army about to drop or dropping chemical weapons on Aleppo on Syria map requiring NBC capable aircraft to stop them and provide evac/support on the ground, "Chernobyl" like mission for the Mi-8 where a secret nuclear reactor blew up somewhere near the Russian border on Caucasus map, ...

Death of the pilot of copilot is already something on DCS. I took enough AK-47 rounds in the face or in my copilot's face through the Plexiglas of my Mi8, Huey or Gaz to know this is very real, but I don't think indeed that the pilot or copilot can have a damage/health level just like every other unit in the game. If this was the case, then applying a simple linear damage law to the guys depending on the intensity or radiation or type of chemical agent would be amazing, this of course depending on whether you have an NBC protection. Another way would be to use the blackout/redout effect that already exists and apply that with a time based increased level until consciousness is lost.


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