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VKB Tecs Throttle--When's it coming?


Cerulean

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We're working on it, despite the external factors being all against us. We're not getting into any complaining or explaining, just doing what we need to do. Every day TECS is getting closer. Like, "physically" closer, not "we know more about it now than we knew last night".
Super excited. Can't wait. Love my VKB sticks so I'm excited to try the throttle.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Every day it gets closer. Right. It’s on Mars I guess. They released several products in the meantime, so I speculate that it’s never coming. 
 

i wanted to switch my throttle from Virpil’s 1st iteration years ago (at the time there was already talk about TECS) but I gave up. Back to Virpil again, the CM3. 


Edited by dawgie79
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  • 4 weeks later...

Read all previous comments, so I am aware this is an ongoing story.

I am a satisfied owner of Gladiator EVO, but within the next 6-7 months I will purchase a throttle. Current contenders would be a Warthog, Virpil and potentially VKB TECS.

I prefer to use same software, so It would be nice to have a clear statement within next 3-4 months. 🙂

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6 hours ago, okopanja said:

Read all previous comments, so I am aware this is an ongoing story.

I am a satisfied owner of Gladiator EVO, but within the next 6-7 months I will purchase a throttle. Current contenders would be a Warthog, Virpil and potentially VKB TECS.

I prefer to use same software, so It would be nice to have a clear statement within next 3-4 months. 🙂

 

I was in the same quandary about a year and a half ago. I had grown quite tired of my Warthog throttle and had already replaced the stick with a VKB Gunfighter and really wanted a new throttle and had high hopes for the TECS by VKB. So after becoming impatient with the waiting I decided to go ahead and get the Virpil CM3, and I am very glad I did. Absolutely love this throttle, it is pretty generic and not modeled after one specific aircraft and it has plenty of buttons and axis. And lots of ways to configure it, adding buttons to axis which is nice for some things for example.

Probably at some point if and when TECS becomes a real piece of hardware we can purchase I will still likely get one just to compare and see which I like better - plus I am a bit of a hardware junkie anyways lol. But at least for now I am quite happy with the hardware I now have. Best of two worlds, VKB for the stick and Virpil for the throttle. Also recently added a Virpil Collective that I am enjoying very much with the Apache. Plus I really like the Virpil software.

 


Edited by dburne
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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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@okopanja I had Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS over 5 years. Lesser sticks and throttles prior that. Warthog was good but neither throttle nor stick is in the league of Virpil and VKB.

Early this year I purchased the Virpil CM3 throttle and, despite its considerable expense, I do not regret its purchase one bit. It's a great product - mechanically, software, support. Also, YouTube folk seem much more interested in creating tutorial videos about the CM3 (there are lots of them) and that is a help for me too. Virpil have a 16 page User Manual, a 5 page Software - Quick Start Guide,   a 16 page configurator software user manual. The VPC YT site is only product release videos.

As an aside I have a Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate (also purchased early this year) which mechanically is great, metal body, accurate movement, lots of buttons, interchangeable HAT : ministicks etc. But I think it fails in software and software support. Sadly, its software is sub-optimal - I only use the software for firmware updates and calibration (done once) and I only do that if its absolutely essential. VKB have created youtube videos with powerpoint text on the screen - no voice over at all - VKB claim that people love this format - I don't like the videos (or use them) at all any more.  I cannot read the text and watch what they are doing at the same time so its a exercise in read a bit, rewind, watch it, read a bit more, repeat. Rewinding YouTube with much accuracy is hard so its just frustrating. I don't think the content is as good as YT creators Virpil videos either. There are (when I last searched earlier this year) very few 3rd party YT creators addressing VKB product tutorials. VKB do have a detailed 131 page PDF user guide.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/26/2022 at 7:31 AM, okopanja said:

Read all previous comments, so I am aware this is an ongoing story.

I am a satisfied owner of Gladiator EVO, but within the next 6-7 months I will purchase a throttle. Current contenders would be a Warthog, Virpil and potentially VKB TECS.

I prefer to use same software, so It would be nice to have a clear statement within next 3-4 months. 🙂

I just got a Warthog, been using it for less than a week and am not satisfied with it at all. That's coming from a bad X-56 that I fixed myself with ferules(typical ghosting) and before that the TWCS and the X-52. The button layout on the X-56 (despite being defective and crammed on the right throttle) is way more versatile for my needs and that's the thing the best review out there will tell you, the Warthog is not that versatile. Half of the switches don't work in half of the positions, is either on or nothing. It's designed for well, the warthog.

They're not toggles, but either half toggle half switch or half a switch, with the off position doing nothing, despite the text. The throttles themselves for the new version wobble even more than my broken X-56, which did have a broken screw holder. Despite how heavy the base is, I'm still able to move it around, so unless you're planning to mount it, I wouldn't bother. I even disabled afterburner detent after enabling it because of it. The center of gravity is not that good.

The deal breaker for me was the sharp edges on the throttle, too uncomfortable for BFM.

 

So, it over-promises, it under-delivers and it's not as good as it's poised to be design wise, while also having manufacturing defects, including the infamous Slew joystick, which I've been able to live with by means of calibration, but it's still annoying. The only positive is that it's 16384 positions because of the HALL sensors but that doesn't make up for all the other problems. The software seems ok, but I quickly lost interest in it. I'd stay away, I'd take the TWCS which honestly is better than it. I wanted a dual system, so there you go.

There's also WinWig Orion but I don't know what to tell you about it.

 

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On 7/26/2022 at 6:37 PM, Dallas88B said:

@okopanja I had Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS over 5 years. Lesser sticks and throttles prior that. Warthog was good but neither throttle nor stick is in the league of Virpil and VKB.

Early this year I purchased the Virpil CM3 throttle and, despite its considerable expense, I do not regret its purchase one bit. It's a great product - mechanically, software, support. Also, YouTube folk seem much more interested in creating tutorial videos about the CM3 (there are lots of them) and that is a help for me too. Virpil have a 16 page User Manual, a 5 page Software - Quick Start Guide,   a 16 page configurator software user manual. The VPC YT site is only product release videos.

As an aside I have a Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate (also purchased early this year) which mechanically is great, metal body, accurate movement, lots of buttons, interchangeable HAT : ministicks etc. But I think it fails in software and software support. Sadly, its software is sub-optimal - I only use the software for firmware updates and calibration (done once) and I only do that if its absolutely essential. VKB have created youtube videos with powerpoint text on the screen - no voice over at all - VKB claim that people love this format - I don't like the videos (or use them) at all any more.  I cannot read the text and watch what they are doing at the same time so its a exercise in read a bit, rewind, watch it, read a bit more, repeat. Rewinding YouTube with much accuracy is hard so its just frustrating. I don't think the content is as good as YT creators Virpil videos either. There are (when I last searched earlier this year) very few 3rd party YT creators addressing VKB product tutorials. VKB do have a detailed 131 page PDF user guide.

I own a Gladiator NXT and except for being a little too narrow and short for my hand is the best joystick I've ever used in its range, after even trying the CH products F-16 one.

VKB definitely has the best engineers out there, not only from a design perspective but from an implementation and PCB and Electromagnetic Compatibility perspective. I spent months looking at reviews and breakdowns of products after returning the TWCS pair from Thrustmaster and I went with VKB as soon as I saw the interior design of the joystick you mention and read its detailed review here in the forums.
The way the NXT expands, it is a thing of beauty, no doubt about it. It hits all the marks for an engineer because unlike other products it actually scales well. That's no easy feat from a physical standpoint. Most companies are NOT interested in benefiting the customer at that level.

The best part of it is its friction grease and how it returns to center which according to biased reviews (take it for what it is) is akin to real life Aerobatic stick feel, plastic gimbals and all.

I looked at the Warthog, noticed how the stick metal can fatigue and break, notice how messy the interior was, same for Virpil, sticking cables to the PCB with a glue gun and was just put off by it. The VKB on the other hand, is well designed from a hardware perspective. Everything connects, is at 90 degrees, there are no extra long messy, loopy cables,  has proper grounding planes and capacitors and, it is the only one of its range with a replaceable USB.

 

Whoever designs these joysticks actually knows and understands Electromagnetic Compatibility, which after dealing with the Saitek/Logitech X-56, was a very welcome experience. I can't say the same for either Thrustmaster or Virpil, they're also a gamble.


I realize this sounds like an add, but I'm actually thinking about getting something else because the NXT doesn't fit my hand that well.

As for their software, they don't even bother  buying a certificate from Microsoft to sign their executable with, which throws the typical Windows UAC alert. That should tell you how much time they spent. Other than that, seeing raw input is great.


Edited by einarabelc5
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Good to read your post.

2 hours ago, einarabelc5 said:

Warthog, noticed how the stick metal can fatigue and break, notice how messy the interior was, same for Virpil, sticking cables to the PCB with a glue gun and was just put off by it.

I had a warthog for over 6 years and it worked well the entire time. I know that lots of folk reported stiction problems so I may have been lucky with my Warthog.

There are a few awful photos on the net of the Virpil with hot glue excessively used but these are really quite out of date now. There was discussion on this forum back in 2018 https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/39048-vkb-still/?do=findComment&comment=666552

I found it worthwhile to take a look at TheNOOBIFIER1337 channel on YouTube. He did a few teardown videos in 2019 (search for the term 'exposed' on his channel) Its pretty clear that even back then Virpil build quality was improving at a pace. The most recent in his exposed series was April 2019 and might be worth a quick look here https://youtu.be/K0HY9UJ8ZCE?t=76 as he comments about the improvement in manufacture standards back then. He has done other YT vids on Virpil products but I did not find any more recent teardown (exposed) videos.

The VKB Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate which I own now, is, as would be expected, a vast improvement on the Warthog.

That said I have no personal experience with Virpil sticks. But the Virpil CM3 Throttle I have is seriously excellent in terms of build, quality software and support. Even their forum is helpful.

2 hours ago, einarabelc5 said:

I'm actually thinking about getting something else because the NXT doesn't fit my hand that well.

I think you would not be disappointed with VKB's Gunfighter or one of Virpil's Flightsticks.

I have quite big hands and the GF is comfortable for me.

2 hours ago, einarabelc5 said:

As for their software, they don't even bother buying a certificate from Microsoft to sign their executable with, which throws the typical Windows UAC alert.

Yes, not so good.... VKBDevCfg (0.92.33) is still unsigned.


Edited by Dallas88B

MSI Z690 EDGE | i5 12600K | RTX 3070 TUF OC 8GB | Kingston Fury Renegade 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 |SilverStone 1000W Strider 80+ Platinum PSU | LG 34GN850 UWQHD 160Hz G-Sync HDR IPS 34in Monitor | Antlion Audio ModMic Uni-Directional Microphone with Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO Closed Back Studio Headphones | Behringer Xenyx 302USB Mixer | Virpil T-50CM3 Throttle | DELANCLiP head tracking | Gunfighter Mk.III MCE Ultimate | Crosswind Pedals | W10

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On 8/21/2022 at 9:16 AM, einarabelc5 said:

 NXT doesn't fit my hand that well.

A point to notice is that NXT is no more limited to one type of grip.

SCG - pompously meaning "Space Combat Grip" - in attempt to catch the "cosmosim" community, but being in reality a "Generic Combat Grip" (don't attempt by replica of some real grip); was designed for desktop use, so they make the grip less tall possible, not much friendly for big hands.

But F-14 and KG-12A grips have more space for hands. MCG grip was not approved - by VBK; to be used in NXT base, due their heavy mass and height, too much for base springs.

 

 


Edited by Sokol1_br
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something to note about the nxt v gunfighter bases, and this may have been changed in newer firmware, but at one point the centre deadzones could not be removed on the nxt. Was a bit of an issue for folks removing the springs hoping to use it for helicopters. The gunfighter base can have deadzones removed entirely

psa for anyone hoping to mod the following for helicopters - unremovable centre deadzones (of a few degrees) also exist in x56 stick, warthog stick, TM 16000m / airbus sidestick, logitech pro pedals. I'd imagine the same for most other budget sticks / pedals too.


Edited by Dogmanbird
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On 8/21/2022 at 6:29 PM, Dogmanbird said:

something to note about the nxt v gunfighter bases, and this may have been changed in newer firmware, but at one point the centre deadzones could not be removed on the nxt. Was a bit of an issue for folks removing the springs hoping to use it for helicopters. The gunfighter base can have deadzones removed entirely

psa for anyone hoping to mod the following for helicopters - unremovable centre deadzones (of a few degrees) also exist in x56 stick, warthog stick, TM 16000m / airbus sidestick, logitech pro pedals. I'd imagine the same for most other budget sticks / pedals too.

 

I'm sorry, but this is not true at all. All VKB devices could get the deadzone set up at 0. Proof: NXT and EVO screenshots.

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185102.png

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185414.png

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On 8/21/2022 at 7:25 AM, Dallas88B said:

Good to read your post.

I had a warthog for over 6 years and it worked well the entire time. I know that lots of folk reported stiction problems so I may have been lucky with my Warthog.

There are a few awful photos on the net of the Virpil with hot glue excessively used but these are really quite out of date now. There was discussion on this forum back in 2018 https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/39048-vkb-still/?do=findComment&comment=666552

I found it worthwhile to take a look at TheNOOBIFIER1337 channel on YouTube. He did a few teardown videos in 2019 (search for the term 'exposed' on his channel) Its pretty clear that even back then Virpil build quality was improving at a pace. The most recent in his exposed series was April 2019 and might be worth a quick look here https://youtu.be/K0HY9UJ8ZCE?t=76 as he comments about the improvement in manufacture standards back then. He has done other YT vids on Virpil products but I did not find any more recent teardown (exposed) videos.

The VKB Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate which I own now, is, as would be expected, a vast improvement on the Warthog.

That said I have no personal experience with Virpil sticks. But the Virpil CM3 Throttle I have is seriously excellent in terms of build, quality software and support. Even their forum is helpful.

I think you would not be disappointed with VKB's Gunfighter or one of Virpil's Flightsticks.

I have quite big hands and the GF is comfortable for me.

Yes, not so good.... VKBDevCfg (0.92.33) is still unsigned.

 

I wanted to come back and repost. I just found a German review of the Cm3 and the cabling looks pretty decent, not as good as VKB but strides above the old Virpil pictures of the stick. I did study the whole Noobifier teardown series, amongst others to decide to go with VKB. What set me over was the review of the NXT by some pilot they hired. While I like the TWCS I couldn't stand the TM1600 tick. The whole Space-Sim vibe of the palm rest vibe ruined it for me. It would make the stick go right no matter what. Just big enough to create momentum. The spring and cam calibration didn't help either. That was like driving a tank.

Here's that German video I told you about:


When they ask you to open the thing to adjust friction, you know they're confident. 😄

Yup, mine it's on its way. 

On 8/21/2022 at 5:41 PM, Sokol1_br said:

A point to notice is that NXT is no more limited to one type of grip.

SCG - pompously meaning "Space Combat Grip" - in attempt to catch the "cosmosim" community, but being in reality a "Generic Combat Grip" (don't attempt by replica of some real grip); was designed for desktop use, so they make the grip less tall possible, not much friendly for big hands.

But F-14 and KG-12A grips have more space for hands. MCG grip was not approved - by VBK; to be used in NXT base, due their heavy mass and height, too much for base springs.

 

 

 

I figured as much. 

I've heard the VKB gunfighter is quite uncomfortable for desktop, whilst Virpil has both desktop and desk mounted version. I quite like the layout of the Russian stick as it has that F-18 vipe, plus the break handle. I'm not a fan of individual brakes on rudders, not even in a Cessna, except for the Christen Eagle II, is quite fun to Drift on that thing. 

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6 hours ago, fallout9 said:

I'm sorry, but this is not true at all. All VKB devices could get the deadzone set up at 0. Proof: NXT and EVO screenshots.

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185102.png

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185414.png


Keep goin guys, you're killing it!
And tell your Electronics Engineer he has a fan, :).
 

On 8/21/2022 at 5:41 PM, Sokol1_br said:

A point to notice is that NXT is no more limited to one type of grip.

SCG - pompously meaning "Space Combat Grip" - in attempt to catch the "cosmosim" community, but being in reality a "Generic Combat Grip" (don't attempt by replica of some real grip); was designed for desktop use, so they make the grip less tall possible, not much friendly for big hands.

But F-14 and KG-12A grips have more space for hands. MCG grip was not approved - by VBK; to be used in NXT base, due their heavy mass and height, too much for base springs.

 

 

 

Very good point, I figured as much. What always worried me is that the base itself is too bulky so it gives the impression that the gimbal sits too high. Other than connection panels for their expandability plans I don't see the point for it. I'd much rather have a taller stick, sitting lower.

That's the exact reason why I'm concerned about the Gunfighter for desktop. I don't think I can use it as intended, however much I loved its review here in the forums.

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8 hours ago, fallout9 said:

I'm sorry, but this is not true at all. All VKB devices could get the deadzone set up at 0. Proof: NXT and EVO screenshots.

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185102.png

Screenshot 2022-08-22 185414.png

for NXT, the issue was vkb config reports it as set to 0 but users could still see an inactive few degrees around the center, when in the test page and USB config tester. If I remember correctly, the springs were removed when testing. At the time, this is what turned me away from the gladiator and instead went for the gunfighter. The same goes for the Thrustmaster setup software reporting 0 deadszone but one still exists (unless something has changed in the last year).

Fallout9 - I'd appreciate it if you could please take some time to test and confirm yourself with a recently built NXT and the EVO if possible? It would be great to know for certain that we can now completely remove it from both🙂

I'm often buying the less expensive sticks for work projects and would use these for the next lot if we know for sure.


Edited by Dogmanbird
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4 hours ago, einarabelc5 said:


Keep goin guys, you're killing it!
And tell your Electronics Engineer he has a fan, :).
 

Very good point, I figured as much. What always worried me is that the base itself is too bulky so it gives the impression that the gimbal sits too high. Other than connection panels for their expandability plans I don't see the point for it. I'd much rather have a taller stick, sitting lower.

That's the exact reason why I'm concerned about the Gunfighter for desktop. I don't think I can use it as intended, however much I loved its review here in the forums.

I must be remembering wrong or something, for the longest time it was VKB who offered both a desktop and a mounted option, Virpil was mainly for mounted until the WarBRD came along. I remember my first Mk I Gunfighter came with both a large plate for desk top and a small one for mounting to desk. When you select the Gunfighter and choose the Options tab, it lists a Tabletop, a Pro S (short extension) and a Pro L (long extension).

I understand the MCG or Ultimate Grip may be a bit tall for some for desktop use but the Gunfighter base certainly is not and they offer other grips as well.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=gunfighter-joysticks

 


Edited by dburne
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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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7 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

for NXT, the issue was vkb config reports it as set to 0 but users could still see an inactive few degrees around the center, when in the test page and USB config tester. If I remember correctly, the springs were removed when testing. At the time, this is what turned me away from the gladiator and instead went for the gunfighter. The same goes for the Thrustmaster setup software reporting 0 deadszone but one still exists (unless something has changed in the last year).

Fallout9 - I'd appreciate it if you could please take some time to test and confirm yourself with a recently built NXT and the EVO if possible? It would be great to know for certain that we can now completely remove it from both🙂

I'm often buying the less expensive sticks for work projects and would use these for the next lot if we know for sure.

 

I tried them both NXT and NXT EVO last night, the deadzone works properly. It's set by default to 3 because of the plastic gimbal, but if you manually set it to 0, then it's 0. We also have a good return policy, no questions asked, so it you'll decide at some point to buy any of our products and they don't work as expected you could return them with no worries.

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Hi fallout9, just to confirm that at 0 dz centre it's behaving as the bottom gif 🙂 If so, that's great! Thank you very much for testing them both.

Yep was aware of the good return policy, it's mainly the quantity to be ordered that may add complications if needing to return them, so better for me to know things are working as desire before ordering.

Thanks again 🙂

giphy.gif

giphy.gif

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23 hours ago, dburne said:

I must be remembering wrong or something, for the longest time it was VKB who offered both a desktop and a mounted option, Virpil was mainly for mounted until the WarBRD came along. I remember my first Mk I Gunfighter came with both a large plate for desk top and a small one for mounting to desk. When you select the Gunfighter and choose the Options tab, it lists a Tabletop, a Pro S (short extension) and a Pro L (long extension).

I understand the MCG or Ultimate Grip may be a bit tall for some for desktop use but the Gunfighter base certainly is not and they offer other grips as well.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=gunfighter-joysticks

 

 

Then I'm the one that's remembering wrong. It's been fuzzy. I'll definitely go and recheck. I might have them criss-crossed. I did have a flash of the VKB site where you select from a drop down if you want desktop, short or long, center mounted. When I wrote this I was remembering of a review of the Gunfighter from about 2 years ago on youtube where the reviewer said he had trouble using it for desktop. Maybe it was the Virpil. It must be that I'm getting them confused, since they're both modelled after the Mig-29/Su-27 sticks.

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On 8/24/2022 at 12:31 AM, nukeproof said:

Please, stay on topic: VKB Tecs Throttle--When's it coming?

Sure!!! So, Duke Nukem Forever was a bust....

Hey, I just got the Virpil and I'm not happy with the user experience at all because it simply is Overengineered. And that's coming from an Engineer. 

That software was just, well, even....No details, but it was overwhelming, if I didn't know what an EEPROM was I would have returned the controller immediately, since it didn't work out of the box on the Windows USB controller window and after upgrading the Firmware it would just show crazy calibration info.

Sorry Virpil, you need a Product Manager to keep you in line, even Proteus an PSpice are easier to understand!! But props for not making a wobbly throttle!!


The UX difference between the on boarding of opening the box and going to the website and then using the software where there's NOT mention of a Firmware upgrade needed for buttons to register is an abyss.

....so yes, I'm actually wondering when is VKB TECS coming too so I can get the expensive Rails one with the electronic detent thing and haptic feedback. Since, you know, the NXT calibrates without even using windows.

 

Does that work for you? See everything throttle wise relates to the TECS coming out. So, we've been on topic ALL this time 😄


Edited by einarabelc5
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