Can't find out how to use bombs

[DN308]

Well, call me noob, you'll be right.

I've just spent 2 weeks more or less on the A-10CII so far, but I can't figure out how to use correctly a damn bomb (dumb or "smart" one).

Everytime I try CCIP for LDs, I miss or got a release failure. Everytime I use CCRP for a laser guided, my load go somewhere I don't know.

My last GBU-12 was lased, SPI marked on a static tank, and I saw it fly above the target, waaaayyyyy too long for a 1/4 of a mile...

I'va spent more hours on youtube watching tutorials and in training missions than in mission's flight, but even in training I should have missed something crucial to understand well.

Someone would be kind enough to type below some kind of bombing for the dumbs memos?

Thanks in advance.

[Paganus]

It's difficult to know what's going wrong without a track to watch. Most problems with dumb bombs are related to AoA or altitude. It's even more difficult to blindly diagnose a smart weapon problem because of everything involved. Are you sure you had the laser on? Unless you set it to latch, you have to manually hold the button. Did you mask? Was the laser code the same? Etc...

Run the training missions and see if you can sort it, or post a short track if you can't.

 

 

[ASAP]

Like Paganus said, its tough to help with limited info... Here are my thoughts on CCIP/CCRP.

CCRP - Remember that in CCRP the jet is always givin you a solution cue to drop on your SPI. You can tell what that is by looking in the bottom left corner of your HUD. It will say Mark, Steerpoint, TGP, or Hook. Tripple check that before you drop because it is easy to mess that one up. Also when you have TGP as SPI your SPI is wherever the TGP is looking in that instant, so if your TGP wonders off the target before you release the weapon, its going to go to the wrong spot

- GBU-12s - You can drop these steerpoint, mark, or TGP SPI, but once the bomb is off the jet its going to try and guide on where you are lasing the bomb. What SPI you drop on is important because the bomb has to be able to find the laser energy while its falling, if your intended impact point and the laser aim point are off by too much it wont ever see the laser and fall ballistically. The simplest way is to drop in TGP LOS SPI. Put your TGP on the target and  line up the HUD symbology. I start lasing just prior to pickle around the time the solution cue starts falling down the line toward your TVV until I see it impact the target. After dropping the bomb, make an aggressive check 30-45 degrees to the right and then level out and make sure your laser is firing and on the target. Big gotchas with GBU-12s: Laser code on your TGP has to match the bomb or it will ignore your laser (check the GBU-12 in DSMS matches whats on the laser control page). The laser has to be firing, you should see a flashing L on the bottom of your TGP page. Its possible to mask your laser, even if you can still see your target in the TGP. you'll know your masked if you see an M in front of the L and the L stops flashing. 

-GBU-38s - These are really simple. They are going to go to your SPI once you release them. Either make a mark on your target and drop last mark SPI (TMS RIGHT LONG) or make a mark and turn that into a steerpoint (On the CDU press the line select key next to the #? put the markpoint into your next available mission waypoint). Make sure you are firing the laser when you take your mark, or if you are dropping TGP LOS SPI because it will give you the most accurate coordinates for the weapon to guide too. With TGP LOS SPI the bomb is going to guide to whereever the TGP is pointing the instant you press (and hold) the pickle button down.

-GBU-54s drop like GBU-12s with the HUD symbology from GBU-38s. If you don't lase them they are the exact same as a 38.

 

CCIP - This is where skill comes into play. In real life weapons officers and some really smart people do a bunch of weaponeering to figure exactly what dive angle, airspeed, weapon time of fall and altitude you want to be at when you release the bombs to get the right weapons effects. Then they go and do a bunch of trigonometry to figure out how high above the target, and how far away from the target you need to be before you roll in and point your nose at the ground in order to put you on the correct "wire." This then gets turned into weapons profiles and pilots practice very specific diving deliveries (45 High Altitude Dive Bomb, 30 Dive Bomb, Etc...). If it seems way to hard in DCS, its because we don't have any of those smart people to help us out.

As a general rule of thumb, when you roll in make sure you point your TVV long of the target, place the target on the green line coming up from your pipper, and hit the pickle button as the pipper passes through the base of your target. I find a good dive angle is somewhere between 30-45 degrees. Play around with different altitudes and distances from the target to roll in at. I try and drive to a point 90 degrees off of where I want to roll in (heading north for a west roll in). Just before the target is directly to my west in this case, I roll and pull my TVV long of the target. Then I line up the line like I said above. With guns its easier because you can just point your gun cross straight at the target get to within about a mile and a half and open fire.

 

Hope that helps a little. If you have more specific questions I might be able to help

[DN308]

Thanks a lot.

 

Well, I’m not really accustomed yet to DCS so I wouldn’t be able to post a track. I don’t know how to do that yet.

 

To be honest, I still have some difficulties with SPI, Mark, Steerpoint, Hook... and how to make my sensors pointing over.

All I’m able to do is to find my target, messing up, with the TGP, quite manually while pointing in the general direction of the target. I tried to mark some target but I must confess that I still not understood how to make them SPI or whatever. 

Still learning, sorry (well in fact I tried to make some marks with the HMCS’s reticle but all I have is a mark way below. I don’t know why).

 

To give you an example:

Using my TGP for a GBU-12, I find a M-60 in its dugout, make my TGP SOI, TMS UP SHORT to make it a point, TMS UP LONG, China hat forward long, CCRP, align the ASL, have a countdown and release my bomb, I hit the NWS to last it, staying level (just training myself, I didn’t want to make some rolling to avoid masking the laser), just to see the bomb flying over the target as I stated before. 

Before that, I have launched a ‘38 the same way for an unobserved result, but not on target for sure.

 

 I will study for your post with great attention and try again, and again, and again.

Many thanks for your answers and patience

[MAXsenna]

@DN308 Welcome then!
When you end a mission, click  the button that says "Save Track", and you can name the file for something informative. Take note of the path, open in Explorer, and just drag the file here. Good luck!

Cheers!

[MadKreator]

6 hours ago, DN308 said:

Thanks a lot.

 

Well, I’m not really accustomed yet to DCS so I wouldn’t be able to post a track. I don’t know how to do that yet.

 

To be honest, I still have some difficulties with SPI, Mark, Steerpoint, Hook... and how to make my sensors pointing over.

All I’m able to do is to find my target, messing up, with the TGP, quite manually while pointing in the general direction of the target. I tried to mark some target but I must confess that I still not understood how to make them SPI or whatever. 

Still learning, sorry (well in fact I tried to make some marks with the HMCS’s reticle but all I have is a mark way below. I don’t know why).

 

To give you an example:

Using my TGP for a GBU-12, I find a M-60 in its dugout, make my TGP SOI, TMS UP SHORT to make it a point, TMS UP LONG, China hat forward long, CCRP, align the ASL, have a countdown and release my bomb, I hit the NWS to last it, staying level (just training myself, I didn’t want to make some rolling to avoid masking the laser), just to see the bomb flying over the target as I stated before. 

Before that, I have launched a ‘38 the same way for an unobserved result, but not on target for sure.

 

 I will study for your post with great attention and try again, and again, and again.

Many thanks for your answers and patience

Sounds just about right, although 2 things, no need for china forward long( slave all sensors to spi) you do that with say a maverick that has its own seeker but not bombs( unless you create a markpoint and set it as spi and need to return to it later after a quick gun run, and slave the tgp to it if it caged back to the hud, for example). You marked the target with tms fwd short and then made that point spi with tms fwd long. Since you did that with your tgp, there is no need to slave anything to that point since the tgp is already there. And when you hit nws to fire the laser, if you don’t set it up to latch in TGP-Ctrl menu on the osb, then you need to hold the button down until impact otherwise the laser will just shut off when you release the button.( you can cheat like me and map the nws button to a switch too or in my case I have a two way trigger on my vkb gunfighter that pulls as a momentary trigger one way and latches in position when you push it outward, that way I never have to latch laser on any module, or hold it in till impact, that switch position is alway fire laser no matter what plane I’m in) Same with laser mavericks and laser jdams on moving targets. With some munitions, in the dsms-inv setup pages you can set it it auto lase on release, time before impact etc. After release give a slight turn left or right depending on tgp location and then start a slight orbit the opposite way, so you’re circling your target with the tgp on the same side of the aircraft as the target. The higher altitude the less you have to worry about masking it but still good practice. I’m just learning the a10c2 as well so I feel your pain! I’m pretty proficient in the f-18 and f-16 but man the a-10 sure is a lot more work lol I’m having a blast with it, good change of pace although the f-16 is still my favorite.

 

As far as ccip and dumb bombs, that’s just practicing, and getting the release point just right and dive angle. I learned to dive in and get my tvv lined up and pointing at an imaginary point, say 2000’ past the target, hold that angle until the pipper reaches target then release just as the center crosses the base of your target. Different speeds, altitudes, dive angles etc can have different effects. Also wind direction can blow it off track if dropped from too high. Especially clusters. Ya just gotta practice and practice till you find that sweet spot. I’m sure there is very specific “rule of thumb” so to speak that real pilots use, but I’m not one of them. I watched a few videos when I first started playing and took that information and kind of figured out what worked best. I usually won’t drop ccip from altitudes more than 4-5k feet, usually around 3000 on release. Again I could be doing that completely wrong, that’s just what works for me. 

After a couple years of playing DCS I literally just learned how to use the mission editor last week. So handy for practice. Set yourself up a bunch of static targets, set fuel and weapons to unlimited in the options, have your plane started hot on ramp, pick a load out and set the weapons up in dsms on the ground then just go fly and blast away as long as you can stand it. Not nearly as fun as running a campaign in liberation but to get things figured out and muscle memory built, its perfect

* edited above for any that read this^ originally i wrote dsms-inv to set laser to latch, not tgp-ctrl… i was thinking about the auto lase function as i was typing , fixed now

Edited January 26, 2022 by MadKreator

[DN308]

I’ve already have some custom missions for practice, but I still have to work on the plane learning.

In particular, I have to understand the CDU use as I didn’t understood how to put a mark or steerpoint inflight that can help me finding it quickly.

Sorry for all these questions, the A10C2 is a beast but not so easy to learn... especially for a non native English speaker like me that have to figure out what means this or that.

 

Once again, I would thank you for your help

[Frederf]

The easiest and most direct form of bombing is CCIP. It shows what will happen if you release right now. If the future impact point is inside the HUD display then you will see the symbols. I think you should practice this until it seems normal.

CCRP is more complex because you have to designate a location with a sensor first and then line up and fly through the solution. Probably the easiest sensor to practice with is the "DTS" of the visual box on the HUD. With slew switch you can move box and then it can stick to the ground. With HUD SOI (SOI just means selected, if * is seen on HUD). Then TMS up pressed for a second will mean SPI (SPI just means important point) is set according to DTS. You can tell when it says "DTS" in bottom corner of HUD instead of "STPT". Of course this is many steps and needs the skill to change which sensor is selected and how to tell system that selected sensor is the one which is providing important point (SPI). Paying attention to the word in the bottom-left corner of HUD is important to understand this.

With CCRP and DTS as target you can practice CCRP bombing the most simply. Later you can figure out how to use other sensors to set important point. I think one very important tool for practicing is "freeze" command. It is like pause but you can still change the airplane but it is not moving through the sky. This makes stressful skills relaxed because you can take all the time you need.

[QuiGon]

I can only reiterate the need for a track file. With a track file we can see exactly what you're doing and what is going wrong. Without a track file it's just a guessing in the dark.
A track file of one of your attempts would make it much easier to pinpoint the issues.

This is how you create a track file (the button is located on the debriefing screen after you ended your mission):

10 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

@DN308 Welcome then!
When you end a mission, click  the button that says "Save Track", and you can name the file for something informative. Take note of the path, open in Explorer, and just drag the file here. Good luck!

Cheers!

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by QuiGon

[NoJoy]

Well from what u saying my honest recommendation for you'd be to get it working step by step. I've spent years in the hog and still learning something new here and there.

- And I'm pretty sure all veterans do that.

I really do remember times when I was eager to learn the hogs' systems and often got frustrated till...

Really, try to nail one system and when to use it after each other. There are tons of good yt howto's out there. If you run into a more specific problem of any kind you'll find help here.

And enjoy the hard and steep path - nothing keeps itching so hard as to master the hog

[ASAP]

On the topic of learning your weapons step by step, I recommend learning to use the gun first. It's by far the most flexible option and has the lowest learning curve. Using it will also teach you the handling characteristics of the jet. Once you get comfortable rolling in on targets with the gun, it will be easier to translate that to CCIP dive bombing.

[MadKreator]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:19 AM, DN308 said:

I’ve already have some custom missions for practice, but I still have to work on the plane learning.

In particular, I have to understand the CDU use as I didn’t understood how to put a mark or steerpoint inflight that can help me finding it quickly.

Sorry for all these questions, the A10C2 is a beast but not so easy to learn... especially for a non native English speaker like me that have to figure out what means this or that.

 

Once again, I would thank you for your help

Ccrp as follows:

-Master mode button until ccrp shows in hud

-make hud SOI (coolie up short)

-dms right to select correct bombs- lets say gbu10/12

-tgp soi( coolie right long)

-check tgp Ctrl page and make sure laser is set to latch ( usually do this long before getting to target)

         (on main tgp page make sure there is an L at the bottom of page, not P or B)(  LSR button on right of tgp page to select what the tgp fires, laser, ir, or both… make sure its on laser )

-find target on tgp (china hat fwd short to zoom fov, dms fwd/aft to zoom in out) 

Corrected—--Tms fwd/up short to switch between point track and area track( area track okay for static/ gps guided.. point track for laser and moving targets)

Corrected—--tms fwd long to make the tgp SPI

-line up center of ccrp pipper to ASL line, fly level

-at the top of asl line there will be a small circle with a countdown timer, it will start counting down. At a certain time that circle will start moving down the asl line. When it starts moving hold down the weapon release button until that circle passes through the middle of the pipper, bomb should release.

-nws button on to fire laser ( L at bottom of tgp should flash as well as the L on the left of the hud) 

-bottom right of tgp will have a countdown time to impact timer( usually off by a second or two)

-after impact nws to stop firing laser .

         (zoom tgp out any time after SPI point is made to get better view. )

-start wide orbit around target area,  and search for more targets and repeat.. or fly out off harms way, turn back in, active pause and search for targets.

 

Look in the controls for the active pause  function. It will pause the jet flying but keep everything else in the mission in real time, so you can go through all the settings and make sure you have everything done correctly. Very useful until you get the hang of it. Especially for finding targets. The tgp is awesome once you get it figured out but easy to push the wrong buttons when under pressure. 

Hardest part for me is remembering to tms fwd long to set a point as spi. In the f-16 and f-18 when you designate anything with the tgp or sensor it automatically makes that point spi.

Corrected—-One extra, but VERY critical step in the a-10. If you designate a target but don’t make the tgp SPI, then regular ccrp attacks wont know where to go.  As I was corrected in a later post, Once the tgp is SPI , no need to redo that for every target, just re-designate the next and fire. The laser will always fire line of sight to where the tgp is looking. So if using laser ordinance the target won’t necessarily need to be set as SPI, as the munitions will track the laser designator, although on initial release will drive towards the last SPI until the laser is fired ( fire laser first , then drop). 

markpoints can be set on any sensor by using TMS right short. But in order to slew a sensor to the markpoint, there is a little 3 position dial under the cdu that reads ( steerpoint, mark, mission) that must be turned to markpoint, and correct markpoint selected, just as you would a steerpoint, in order to be able to slave{( china fwd long) anything to a markpoint. From there you can slew the tgp to a target, designate then tms up long again to make the designated target SPI.  Keep that in mind but don’t overwhelm yourself with that right at the moment. Work on one function at a time. If you’re learning the tgp and effectively launching a weapon, don’t try to mix in making markpoints and all that, just yet. It will come eventually. Work on those things separately. They will go hand in hand but gets all too confusing right at first. Markpoints are good for marking an area to come back to, or if you see some targets of opportunity, to mark their position for yourself or other a-10’s in your group. If you know where your targets are already then there not much point in using it( unless you accidentally slave your tgp back the hud( china aft short) and have no idea where the targets are lol

 

I just did a few practice runs on a building and I hit my target 4/5 times with gbu 10. Not all will hit. The game does not have 100% accuracy built in. Just because you did everything right doesn’t necessarily mean your weapon will hit your target every time.

I find with laser guided munitions they tend to do a little better with more altitude.  Try them at 10,000 ft and not, say, 4000. The bombs need time to adjust their flight path.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by MadKreator

[DN308]

Thanks again and again to all of you.

I’ll try it again tonight and make a track back of it if I still encounter a failure.

With all of these tips in mind I’m going back to work with the « hawg »

Edited January 26, 2022 by DN308

[DN308]

So, I tried again and I think I've found out some of my mistakes:

- Latch put from On to Off, so when NWS triggered, my laser didn't took my command as permanent... (dumbass);

- Bomb release from too low, so it was unable to correct the trajectory.

I've played a training mission and was able to release my 6x GBU-54 JDAMs on stationnary and moving targets each time.

Many thanks to you guys to have point some of my mistakes so O took care of them and I think I understood some important points.

 

Unfortunately, the file is too large to be shared here

Edited January 27, 2022 by DN308

[MadKreator]

1 hour ago, DN308 said:

So, I tried again and I think I've found out some of my mistakes:

- Latch put from On to Off, so when NWS triggered, my laser didn't took my command as permanent... (dumbass);

- Bomb release from too low, so it was unable to correct the trajectory.

I've played a training mission and was able to release my 6x GBU-54 JDAMs on stationnary and moving targets each time.

Many thanks to you guys to have point some of my mistakes so O took care of them and I think I understood some important points.

 

Unfortunately, the file is too large to be share here

 

Awesome!

[BuzzU]

One step at a time. It's a long walk.

[jaylw314]

8 hours ago, MadKreator said:

Hardest part for me is remembering to tms fwd long to set a point as spi. In the f-16 and f-18 when you designate anything with the tgp or sensor it automatically makes that point spi. One extra, but VERY critical step in the a-10. If you designate a target but don’t make that exact point SPI,  then the laser ( or gps coordinates in a jdam) will point at the last selected SPI, not necessarily your designated target.

Once I've decided on the TGP --> CCRP --> GBU-12 workflow, I make my TGP SPI immediately (Coolie Right Long, then TMS Up Long).  That way, I can verify I've done it in the HUD while I'm still heads up BEFORE capturing the target.  Once I've done that, THEN I can spend my attention slewing the TGP around onto the target.

In fact, I've generally found that for most workflows (with a few exceptions), setting the expected sensor as SPI as the FIRST step helps remind me what my workflow is.

At the risk of being pedantic, I'd also point out that the laser doesn't care what your SPI is.  It ONLY points where the TGP is pointed.  Even if your TAD is SPI and pointed elsewhere, if you turn on the laser, it just lases the TGP location.  The only reason we need the TGP to be SPI is because we're using CCRP, and the ASL and visual cues are all based on the SPI.  Technically, you could have a nearby steerpoint by the SPI instead of the TGP.  The ASL and all our bombing cues will send the bomb to the steerpoint, but when you fire the laser the bomb will chase the TGP's target, not the SPI.

As such, it doesn't matter what the SPI is if you're using TGP-->CCIP-->APKWS or TGP-->CCIP-->Laser Maverick, since they follow the TGP whether it's SPI or not.  As long as the TGP is pointed in the right place, anything else could be SPI and it'd still work.

Edited January 27, 2022 by jaylw314

[MadKreator]

3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Once I've decided on the TGP --> CCRP --> GBU-12 workflow, I make my TGP SPI immediately (Coolie Right Long, then TMS Up Long).  That way, I can verify I've done it in the HUD while I'm still heads up BEFORE capturing the target.  Once I've done that, THEN I can spend my attention slewing the TGP around onto the target.

In fact, I've generally found that for most workflows (with a few exceptions), setting the expected sensor as SPI as the FIRST step helps remind me what my workflow is.

At the risk of being pedantic, I'd also point out that the laser doesn't care what your SPI is.  It ONLY points where the TGP is pointed.  Even if your TAD is SPI and pointed elsewhere, if you turn on the laser, it just lases the TGP location.  The only reason we need the TGP to be SPI is because we're using CCRP, and the ASL and visual cues are all based on the SPI.  Technically, you could have a nearby steerpoint by the SPI instead of the TGP.  The ASL and all our bombing cues will send the bomb to the steerpoint, but when you fire the laser the bomb will chase the TGP's target, not the SPI.

As such, it doesn't matter what the SPI is if you're using TGP-->CCIP-->APKWS or TGP-->CCIP-->Laser Maverick, since they follow the TGP whether it's SPI or not.  As long as the TGP is pointed in the right place, anything else could be SPI and it'd still work.

 

Oh man! Still learning here as well. I had no idea that tms long with tgp soi made the whole sensor spi! That takes like 35% of the workload off! I always re made spi on every new target designated. I swear in videos I’ve watched people are designating spi on targets, but maybe that’s because what they’re actually doing is just making the tgp spi, but not until they designate a target… I suppose since most tutorials aren’t going after multiple targets , that doesn’t get explained very well. Great to know about the laser as well following the tgp(  as it does in every other jet) lol I was so caught up in having to manually designate a SPI for things, I just assumed it followed spi but following the tgp makes much more sense since it is firing it LOS lol Thanks for the tips and the correction on my errors! You just made my dcs life so much easier. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by MadKreator

[MadKreator]

11 hours ago, MadKreator said:

Ccrp as follows:

-Master mode button until ccrp shows in hud

-make hud SOI (coolie up short)

-dms right to select correct bombs- lets say gbu10/12

-tgp soi( coolie right long)

-check tgp Ctrl page and make sure laser is set to latch ( usually do this long before getting to target)

         (on main tgp page make sure there is an L at the bottom of page, not P or B)(  LSS button on right of tgp page to select what the tgp fires, laser, ir, or both… make sure its on laser )

-find target on tgp (china hat fwd short to zoom fov, dms fwd/aft to zoom in out) 

-Tms fwd/up short to designate ( area track okay for static/ gps guided.. point track for laser and moving targets)

-tms fwd long to make that point SPI so the laser and bombs know where they’re supposed to go to

-line up center of ccrp pipper to ASL line, fly level

-at the top of asl line there will be a small circle with a countdown timer, it will start counting down. At a certain time that circle will start moving down the asl line. When it starts moving hold down the weapon release button until that circle passes through the middle of the pipper, bomb should release.

-nws button on to fire laser ( L at bottom of tgp should flash as well as the L on the left of the hud) 

-bottom right of tgp will have a countdown time to impact timer( usually off by a second or two)

-after impact nws to stop firing laser .

         (zoom tgp out any time after SPI point is made to get better view. )

-start wide orbit around target area,  and search for more targets and repeat.. or fly out off harms way, turn back in, active pause and search for targets.

 

Look in the controls for the active pause  function. It will pause the jet flying but keep everything else in the mission in real time, so you can go through all the settings and make sure you have everything done correctly. Very useful until you get the hang of it. Especially for finding targets. The tgp is awesome once you get it figured out but easy to push the wrong buttons when under pressure. 

Hardest part for me is remembering to tms fwd long to set a point as spi. In the f-16 and f-18 when you designate anything with the tgp or sensor it automatically makes that point spi. One extra, but VERY critical step in the a-10. If you designate a target but don’t make that exact point SPI,  then the laser ( or gps coordinates in a jdam) will point at the last selected SPI, not necessarily your designated target. Can always active pause and check the tad display to make sure your spi ( wedding cake symbol) is where its supposed to be..

markpoints can be set on any sensor by using TMS right short. But in order to slew a sensor to the markpoint, there is a little 3 position dial under the cdu that reads ( steerpoint, mark, mission) that must be turned to markpoint, and correct markpoint selected, just as you would a steerpoint, in order to be able to slave{( china fwd long) anything to a markpoint. From there you can slew the tgp to a target, designate then tms up long again to make the designated target SPI.  Keep that in mind but don’t overwhelm yourself with that right at the moment. Work on one function at a time. If you’re learning the tgp and effectively launching a weapon, don’t try to mix in making markpoints and all that, just yet. It will come eventually. Work on those things separately. They will go hand in hand but gets all too confusing right at first. Markpoints are good for marking an area to come back to, or if you see some targets of opportunity, to mark their position for yourself or other a-10’s in your group. If you know where your targets are already then there not much point in using it( unless you accidentally slave your tgp back the hud( china aft short) and have no idea where the targets are lol

 

I just did a few practice runs on a building and I hit my target 4/5 times with gbu 10. Not all will hit. The game does not have 100% accuracy built in. Just because you did everything right doesn’t necessarily mean your weapon will hit your target every time.

I find with laser guided munitions they tend to do a little better with more altitude.  Try them at 10,000 ft and not, say, 4000. The bombs need time to adjust their flight path.

 

 

 

Correction on my post again… on the tgp screen the LSS is for laser spot search not the type of signal its shooting.. use LSR to switch between laser, IR, Both.

and as corrected.. tms fwd/up long to make the tgp itself SPI, no need to redo that action on every target. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by MadKreator

[jaylw314]

16 hours ago, MadKreator said:

Oh man! Still learning here as well. I had no idea that tms long with tgp soi made the whole sensor spi! That takes like 35% of the workload off! I always re made spi on every new target designated. I swear in videos I’ve watched people are designating spi on targets, but maybe that’s because what they’re actually doing is just making the tgp spi, but not until they designate a target… I suppose since most tutorials aren’t going after multiple targets , that doesn’t get explained very well. Great to know about the laser as well following the tgp(  as it does in every other jet) lol I was so caught up in having to manually designate a SPI for things, I just assumed it followed spi but following the tgp makes much more sense since it is firing it LOS lol Thanks for the tips and the correction on my errors! You just made my dcs life so much easier. 

 

Glad that helped!  To follow up, a couple reminders:

• "Setting SPI" does not designate a target, it's designating a sensor.  When you do, that sensor's target location is the SPI, wherever it happens to be pointing.
• The ONLY place that confirms what sensor is set as SPI is the data block in the lower left of the HUD.
• Setting a sensor as SPI ONLY serves the following purposes.  If you don't need any of those functions, then there's no reason to bother with setting a SPI sensor:
  1. When you press China Forward Long, TGP, TAD and MAV are slaved to the location of the SPI sensor (weirdly, I think TDC and HMD are not, but someone correct me if I'm wrong)
  2. When you release a GPS/INS bomb, it heads to the location of SPI sensor
  3. When you're in CCRP mode, the guidance cues are for the location of the SPI sensor
• When you set SPI as STPT, you're using the EGI as a "sensor', and it can provide the same above functions
• When you set SPI as IFFCC, you're using it as a "sensor" as well, but #3 is irrelevant.  You might be able to use it as a weird "CCIP" mode for JDAMs by using the gun pipper as the designator setting their target.  I haven't tried this and that's a pretty strange use case...

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by jaylw314

[ASAP]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Glad that helped!  To follow up, a couple reminders:

• "Setting SPI" does not designate a target, it's designating a sensor.  When you do, that sensor's target location is the SPI, wherever it happens to be pointing.
• The ONLY place that confirms what sensor is set as SPI is the data block in the lower left of the HUD.
• Setting a sensor as SPI ONLY serves the following purposes.  If you don't need any of those functions, then there's no reason to bother with setting a SPI sensor:
  1. When you press China Forward Long, TGP, TAD and MAV are slaved to the location of the SPI sensor (weirdly, I think TDC and HMD are not, but someone correct me if I'm wrong)
  2. When you release a GPS/INS bomb, it heads to the location of SPI sensor
  3. When you're in CCRP mode, the guidance cues are for the location of the SPI sensor
• When you set SPI as STPT, you're using the EGI as a "sensor', and it can provide the same above functions
• When you set SPI as IFFCC, you're using it as a "sensor" as well, but #3 is irrelevant.  You might be able to use it as a weird "CCIP" mode for JDAMs by using the gun pipper as the designator setting their target.  I haven't tried this and that's a pretty strange use case...

 

 

Pretty sure the TDC does move as well when you slave all to SPI. At least it used to, and I'm pretty sure that's what happens in the real jet. Don't know about the HMD, I rarely every make it SOI or designate stuff with it.

For someone trying to learn how to do bombing my advice is to chaff off the IFFCC SPI thing. It doesn't do anything that you can't do (at least in my opinion a lot easier) by using the other SPI modes. There's a TON of misconception about what it actually does for you, and I've yet to read anything that makes it uniquely useful. AND talking to the hawg drivers I know, it sounds like it is pretty much never used (one even said he couldn't remember how to get into it, and if he accidently did he'd get out of the second he realized it).

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, ASAP said:

Pretty sure the TDC does move as well when you slave all to SPI. At least it used to, and I'm pretty sure that's what happens in the real jet. Don't know about the HMD, I rarely every make it SOI or designate stuff with it.

For someone trying to learn how to do bombing my advice is to chaff off the IFFCC SPI thing. It doesn't do anything that you can't do (at least in my opinion a lot easier) by using the other SPI modes. There's a TON of misconception about what it actually does for you, and I've yet to read anything that makes it uniquely useful. AND talking to the hawg drivers I know, it sounds like it is pretty much never used (one even said he couldn't remember how to get into it, and if he accidently did he'd get out of the second he realized it).

Yup, you're right the TDC does get slaved to SPI when commanded, but the HDC on the HMCS does not.

[Razor18]

10 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Glad that helped!  To follow up, a couple reminders:

• "Setting SPI" does not designate a target, it's designating a sensor.  When you do, that sensor's target location is the SPI, wherever it happens to be pointing.
• The ONLY place that confirms what sensor is set as SPI is the data block in the lower left of the HUD.
• Setting a sensor as SPI ONLY serves the following purposes.  If you don't need any of those functions, then there's no reason to bother with setting a SPI sensor:
  1. When you press China Forward Long, TGP, TAD and MAV are slaved to the location of the SPI sensor (weirdly, I think TDC and HMD are not, but someone correct me if I'm wrong)
  2. When you release a GPS/INS bomb, it heads to the location of SPI sensor
  3. When you're in CCRP mode, the guidance cues are for the location of the SPI sensor
• When you set SPI as STPT, you're using the EGI as a "sensor', and it can provide the same above functions
• When you set SPI as IFFCC, you're using it as a "sensor" as well, but #3 is irrelevant.  You might be able to use it as a weird "CCIP" mode for JDAMs by using the gun pipper as the designator setting their target.  I haven't tried this and that's a pretty strange use case...

 

 

I hope it will not seem as nitpicking, but we are mixing up some nomenclatures big time here.

"Setting SPI" does not designate a target, it's designating a sensor.  When you do, that sensor's target location is the SPI, wherever it happens to be pointing.

"Setting SPI" definitely designates a target (Sensor Point of Interest). You probably meant rather setting SOI (Sensor of Interest), if "it is designating a sensor" as you wrote it.

"SOI" is kind of a "which pen I will want to use to draw a point on the ground", and SPI is the point you in fact put down on the ground. You can change your pen (SOI) whenever you want to, but as long as you do not draw a new point (SPI) with your new pen (SOI) on the ground, the "previous" point is still the SPI.

 

The ONLY place that confirms what sensor is set as SPI is the data block in the lower left of the HUD.

Again, a sensor can be only set as being SOI (pen). Then you make a SPI (point) with the SOI (pen).

 

When you press China Forward Long, TGP, TAD and MAV are slaved to the location of the SPI sensor

"...are slaved to the SPI, set by the (then) SOI. "

 

When you're in CCRP mode, the guidance cues are for the location of the SPI sensor

Again, the "SPI sensor" is the SOI. "Location of the SPI sensor" is the SPI.

 

When you set SPI as STPT, you're using the EGI as a "sensor', and it can provide the same above functions.

You can set STPT as SPI, or set SPI to STPT.

 

"...You might be able to use it as a weird "CCIP" mode for JDAMs by using the gun pipper as the designator setting their target.  I haven't tried this and that's a pretty strange use case..."

What's the advantage of using the gun pipper as SOI, instead of the much smaller DTS slaved to the flight path marker (or velocity vector) to set SPI for a JDAM? Actually both is impossible unless you want to fly close enough to visually locate your target, sacrificing JDAM standoff (altitude and or distance) in the designating process.  I think using the IFFCC as a SOI is much better to use for a gun run, to fine tune your gun aim, looking at the TGP.

Again, didn't meant to nitpick.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Razor18

[ASAP]

8 hours ago, Razor18 said:

 I think using the IFFCC as a SOI is much better to use for a gun run, to fine tune your gun aim, looking at the TGP.

Quick rant on that... I've seen this a couple of times, and I'm curious if anyone actually does this. It always sounds like people spitballing possible uses for IFFCC SPI, and saying how it might be useful. It just seems really far fetched to me. Does it work?

I would argue this technique is massively putting the cart before the horse. While flying down final the pilots attention should looking outside and putting the CCIP pipper on the target. If you can't see your target accurately enough by looking outside to put your pipper on it, you're probably opening fire from too far out, or you should have done better target correlation before rolling in. Even against a tactical sized target like a tank, it should be big enough to just "put the thing on the thing" in the HUD. Staring at your TGP down final seems like a great way to 1) not be able to see/react to things shooting at you, 2) not be able to monitor your parameters like dive angle, asnd airspeed , and 3) blow through abort cue and floor mort yourself. If you are not able to see the target you are strafing (like at night) put the TGP on the thing you want to shoot before you roll in, then roll in and strafe the IR marker, or TGP diamond in the HUD. That way you know the HUD is stable on the target so you have something to aim at. Using IFFCC SPI to "fine tune" your aim sounds more to me like searching for a target down final.

If you have time to actually use your TGP slaved to the CCIP pipper to line up a target like that, you either have a super human fast OODA loop, or you are spending waaay to long on final and just asking to be shot.

 

Edit: I could be totally wrong. Use whatever technique works for you. As the old saying goes "if its stupid and it works, it's not stupid". I'm just curious if anyone REALLY does this. If you do and it works great, let me know. Better yet, link a video. I'd love to see it being used effectively in action.

Edited January 28, 2022 by ASAP

[Razor18]

OK !