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Choose the new name for WSO AI. It can't be Jester anymore


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42 minutes ago, WRCRob said:

funny thing I keep on seeing is the comments about not having pilot names in WSO AI. Is that when the USAF first got their Phantoms, the WSO was actually a second qualified pilot and not a dedicated WSO crew member. The concept of dedicated radar operators in USAF fighters didn't start till the middle of the vietnam war from what I recollect and it was more for spreading out the number of pilots and aircraft available than fighting force concept (which it turned into, and for the better).

Sources: 
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/what-couldnt-f-4-phantom-do-180953944/

You're absolutely right, but the point of the comments was that, since for the F-4 we have a lot GIBs (pilot or not) that made the history of the aircraft, it'd be more appropriate to choose a name among this group.

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Mover is just jealous because he never flew a real phighter.

In USAF F-4 community, the FUF (F***er Up Front, AKA Front Seat Stick Actuator) rowed the boat, while the GIB (early on, when they stuck pilots in the pit), or later, the WSO (when they realized that they needed a sentient being to handle the hardware and keep the pilot from getting lost or putting the jet out of control, they switched to navigators - renamed Weapons System Operators) shot the ducks. 

A useful tool for the WSO was a banana on a stick - used to make the pilot turn the jet on command. 

WSOs/radar operators had been around in the USAF for a while (see P-61, F-82, F-89, F-94, F-101B, etc); what made the USAF F-4s unique was the additions of flight controls to the back seat - something the Navy never had. Not sure why USAF insisted on adding the controls - the F-101B didn't have them, for example - but because they were there some idiot decided to put two pilots in the jets at first! I'm surprised any of those jets survived any of their flights with TWO fighter pilots at the controls... Fortunately, Vietnam resulted in a pilot shortage so Navs were given some training and took over the pit, to the immense relief of the pilot GIBs!

A good Pilot/WSO team was unbeatable, a bad team was useless.

Oddly, while WSOs were expected to be able to fly the jet home incase the pilot ate a bird or something, and even land the jet, we were not "allowed" to fly the jet below 10,000 ft and there was no official training program. Some (most?) WSOs were in pit because of bad eyes, so pretty much learned to fly the jet on their own, usually with lots of help from their pilot (most of whom appreciated the utility of having an voice-command autopilot in the back seat) and a lot of extra time in the sim. Some rare WSOs had no desire to fly, those guys were not popular during long deployments (12 hours in the seat was not unusual) in a jet with a really crude and unreliable autopilot...

Lots of games played between pilot and WSO during control handoffs. Popular was to run full nose down trim before handing over the jet. Ha ha funny. Sneakier was for the pilot to turn off the yaw and pitch stab augs - without them the jet was pretty squirrelly, to say the least! WSOs as a last resort could threaten to start pulling random circuit breakers...

In ref to a previous post about where the nickname "Arnie" came from - the ARN-101 mod, which we got in my unit around 1981-2. Great enhancement to the jet, but it had some interesting teething problems!

Looking forward to this release, it will be interesting to see how well they capture the different flying characteristics between the later slatted Es and the earlier Navy hardwings (which the F-4Cs I trained on still had).  Adverse yaw is a bitch, but the rudder is your friend!

Vulture

 


Edited by Kirk66
typo
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51 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Mover often refers to any backseater as "Trunk Monkey". 😉  As good a name as any. 🙂 

Well if he said that and it wasn't a good natured jest, then I find it pretty dismissive of a lot of bright, talented aviators, especially coming from a struggling reservist who often comes across as a bit of a tragic figure, don't you think?

For perspective- We had four guys in my little squadron who made Admiral. Of the four, three were RIO's, all three were mentors during my tour who took me under their wing and got me squared away in squadron, airwing and ship board operations.

Of those three RIO's, two made Vice Admiral, one retired as a Rear Admiral. All three commanded fighter squadrons, all three were Super CAGs. Two skippered CV's, one of the two commanded two different CV's, all of the above in wartime. Two commanded NSAWC, which is the parent command for Topgun, one commanded 3rd Fleet.

A lot of Walk on Water Officers in the USN were NFO/RIO's, the only thing that kept them out of the front seat was a dumb eyesight rule that more or less disappeared in time. As far as I know, none have Youtube channels

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Victory205:

Well if he said that and it wasn't a good natured jest, then I find it pretty dismissive of a lot of bright, talented aviators, especially coming from a struggling reservist who often comes across as a bit of a tragic figure, don't you think?

For perspective- We had four guys in my little squadron who made Admiral. Of the four, three were RIO's, all three were mentors during my tour who took me under their wing and got me squared away in squadron, airwing and ship board operations.

Of those three RIO's, two made Vice Admiral, one retired as a Rear Admiral. All three commanded fighter squadrons, all three were Super CAGs. Two skippered CV's, one of the two commanded two different CV's, all of the above in wartime. Two commanded NSAWC, which is the parent command for Topgun, one commanded 3rd Fleet.

A lot of Walk on Water Officers in the USN were NFO/RIO's, the only thing that kept them out of the front seat was a dumb eyesight rule that more or less disappeared in time. As far as I know, none have Youtube channels

No, judging from the context it was presented, I'm pretty certain it was meant as good-natured ribbing, and I'm certain no disrespect was indented. Neither was my post, I assume that's (hopefully) crystal clear to everyone here!

I merely thought that, as far as good-natured mockery goes, it was a funny term. Nothing but mad respect for the workload those WSO's have, operating all those systems and sensors while also having to maintain SA and hold the pilot's hand at the same time. 😉 

RIO's are definitely getting proper representation on YouTube, though, in the form of "Bio" Baranek and "Mooch" Carroll. So if anyone ever had any doubts concerning the quality and necessity of backseaters, they definitely put things in perspective (Bio even more so with his excellent books)


Edited by Jayhawk1971
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Hi all !

Ok Heatblur, maybe it has to be Jester for some reasons, and for the others, for sure I would have suggested Robin.

But read first what I suggest : Jeffrey.

For the legendary Jeffrey Feinstein, the last Vietnam and the last air force Ace.

and you know what ? he earn his ace status exclusivly while being WSO onboard The f4 phantom !

He later was name graduated pilot despite a severe myopia.

A WSO with huge glasses on his nose ?! absolute class ! and I think it's close enough to jester to be accepted

Edit : tried to put a picture but did not understand how to do it 😅


Edited by LiO177
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On 1/27/2022 at 8:58 PM, Cdodders said:

Nigel

I knew at least one! 😆

Aussie Phantoms could have “Bruce”. 😁

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On 1/25/2022 at 11:24 PM, Krez said:

Duke - USN variant . Randall "Duke" Cunningham - 5 kills

Duke was a pilot, not a RIO. Besides, he's also an American politician-turned-convicted-felon who just got released from federal custody by way of "good old boy" pardon. 

While I can't think of a RIO name, I can think of a proper pilot name: perhaps the naval Phantoms should use "Bull" for the front seat, after the Great Santini.

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On 2/5/2022 at 5:15 PM, exhausted said:

Duke was a pilot, not a RIO. Besides, he's also an American politician-turned-convicted-felon who just got released from federal custody by way of "good old boy" pardon. 

While I can't think of a RIO name, I can think of a proper pilot name: perhaps the naval Phantoms should use "Bull" for the front seat, after the Great Santini.

It’s OT, but Cunningham has been out of prison since 2013 . 
He recently received a Pardon by the former president, but that’s an entirely different matter, so maybe at least try to do minimal research before you put out statements like that..

It’s not like he got out of prison due to it .


Edited by Snappy
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2 hours ago, G.J.S said:

???

Not so my fine friend. “Chuck” DeBellevue? 6 kills from the coal hole.

oops i meant last; not only. Ritchie was first AF pilot. But Fang would be a good name.

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On 2/9/2022 at 4:08 AM, Snappy said:

It’s OT, but Cunningham has been out of prison since 2013 . 
He recently received a Pardon by the former president, but that’s an entirely different matter, so maybe at least try to do minimal research before you put out statements like that..

It’s not like he got out of prison due to it .

 

Hold up, before getting too high up on your horse... Cunningham is a career criminal, so no I would not like to see the "Duke" callsign used for a pilot or RIO in an F-4 module.

Randall Cunningham was convicted for conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in 2006. He was freed completely by way of presidential pardon. Nobody should be confused about what the pardon does or does not do: it does not make Randall Cunningham innocent, he's guilty as sin.


Edited by exhausted
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3 hours ago, exhausted said:

Hold up, before getting too high up on your horse... Cunningham is a career criminal, so no I would not like to see the "Duke" callsign used for a pilot or RIO in an F-4 module.

Randall Cunningham was convicted for conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in 2006. He was freed completely by way of presidential pardon. Nobody should be confused about what the pardon does or does not do: it does not make Randall Cunningham innocent, he's guilty as sin.

 

Dude…high horse, really? Coming from you?

Where did I say in my post that I want the WSO/RIO to be named after Cunningham? This is happening in your mind.
Was just pointing out that you put out a factually wrong statement about the man, which btw could be seen as defamation , regardless of the man‘s own legal troubles.Doesn’t mean he’s not a human being anymore after all.

But never let facts get in the way of your pre-conceived opinion…

Definitely would not like the see him named after Cunningham , but mainly for different reasons than you.

I prefer simply keeping Jester as name.


Edited by Snappy
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On 1/26/2022 at 7:07 PM, TLTeo said:

Half the community really. The other half wants it released right now even if the cockpit is un-textured, the radar doesn't work, the landing gear is not animated, and the FM is buggy enough to include parts of the Cessna 172 and SR-71 flight envelopes.

Back on topic - I don't see how Viper isn't the obvious choice, seeing as the character actually flew Phantoms and it obviously complements Jester. Plus he comes with a bonus epic 'stache.

 

Isn't Pete Bonanni the one with the nicest 'stache?!! ^^

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On 2/14/2022 at 12:55 AM, Snappy said:

Dude…high horse, really? Coming from you?

Where did I say in my post that I want the WSO/RIO to be named after Cunningham? This is happening in your mind.
Was just pointing out that you put out a factually wrong statement about the man, which btw could be seen as defamation , regardless of the man‘s own legal troubles.Doesn’t mean he’s not a human being anymore after all.

But never let facts get in the way of your pre-conceived opinion…

Definitely would not like the see him named after Cunningham , but mainly for different reasons than you.

I prefer simply keeping Jester as name.

 

Mm, that's not how defamation works so no, it's not defamation to say a career criminal should not have his callsign honored. He used that callsign to campaign for his political office, which is where he committed the crimes. 

 

Alright, alright nobody's picking on you. I didn't say you took the position that the callsign should be "Duke" so we can all cool it now.


Edited by exhausted
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57 minutes ago, exhausted said:

Mm, that's not how defamation works so no, it's not defamation to say a career criminal should not have his callsign honored. He used that callsign to campaign for his political office, which is where he committed the crimes. 

You don’t get it. The problematic part was where you wrongly claimed he had only gotten out of federal custody and only just now because of a good old boys pardon, which is both factually a plain wrong statement about the man. 

Anyway I can recognise  a pointless discussion when I see one.  I‘m out at this point and don’t bother replying  , I won’t see it anyway , as you’re now going on my ignore list.


Edited by Snappy
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21 minutes ago, Snappy said:

You don’t get it. The problematic part was where you wrongly claimed he had only gotten out of federal custody and only just now because of a good old boys pardon, which is both factually a plain wrong statement about the man. 

Anyway I can recognise  a pointless discussion when I see one.  I‘m out at this point and don’t bother replying  , I won’t see it anyway , as you’re now going on my ignore list.

 

Never understand when people get so upset and don't see the forest for the trees. Whether he got released from custody in 2013 or 2021 doesn't make him not a felon. 

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May I suggest "Mover" 😁

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